Gala

1 hour ago, Rory Snow said:

 

Originally I asked... Just a few little nagging thoughts i had about Varys.. why did Varys take off his rings when he got 'arrested'? Was there some significance to the rings? Who was he writing to? Does he have yet another co-conspiritor?

 

Except the letter was detailing Jon's origin and existence. That information came to Varys indirectly from Sansa so they'd be no reason to write it if the note was going to her. There has to be someone else.

Need to rewatch for details, didn't pay that much attention.

1 hour ago, Jarl Halstein said:

We saw how she approved of Tyrion's request that if they ring the bells to open the gates, the attack would be called off. She nodded to Grey Worm about that, so that was his order. He broke that order - an Unsullied, taught to obey 100% for every day of his life. Disobeying the queen he worships. Yes, then she started burning the city, but that was after he disobeyed the order.

Are you sure?! I must rewatch, because I have seen it absolutely differently, probably, was affected, but I still think that it was the other way around. I will not be surprised if they discussed it with Grey Worm beforehand.

7 hours ago, Rory Snow said:

Just a few little nagging thoughts i had about Varys.. why did Varys take off his rings when he got 'arrested'? Was there some significance to the rings? Who was he writing to? Does he have yet another co-conspiritor?

I think he has and it is, probably, Sansa.

9 hours ago, Raksha 2014 said:

The ceiling is the Valonquar?

Well, I think that valonquar is only in books and they didn't add this part of the prophecy in the series, unfortunately. 

5 hours ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

How can any sensible person think that the show and the books are going to have the same ending?

Maybe because GRRM has said this himself, no?

Although, I understand that you do not want Dany be bad in the books (I presume, she is your favourite), but in the books she is going this way too. I wasn't even surprised by what she did in this episode. I hope somebody kills Grey Worm too. 

From Dany's behaviour in the episode, I presume Jon won't be in favour anymore. I think that she has already decided what to do with him, Sansa and all of them and she didn't tell Tyrion a thing.

On 5/6/2019 at 9:05 PM, House Cambodia said:

Hmm, I saw it the opposite. Sansa stated with great certainty that Dany with her dragon would defeat and execute Cercei very soon - that's what made him change his mind and rush towards his sister.

or maybe she was referring to Arya)))

I agree that Sansa was talking about Dany burning King's Landing, but maybe, just maybe she was referring to Arya executing Cersei...she even said "execute" rather than "burn"

10 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

My first thought after the ending, this can't be canon right?  Did they accidentally send in the wrong version, and that this was one of those fake endings that we heard they shot to discredit leaks.  So if you can't tell, I'm not content with this ending.  I'm also wondering if Martin is done with Winds of Winter and has been for a while but since it has content that discredits the shows take on events, he decided to wait on releasing it until after the show was completely done.

For what I liked about this episode, Dany was a total Boss.  She kicked butt on Drogon and was just pure awesome start to finish.  I loved her standing her ground with Jorah at the end, helping to watch his back as he protected her.  Yes the odds were against them and Jorah sadly didn't make it.  My other favorite moment from Dany (and admittedly I might have misinterpreted it) was her purposefully sliding off Drogon so that he could fly to safety.  She just sacrificed her life to save her boy (considering she was surrounded she couldn't have expected to survive).  Some one give her a 'World's Best Mom' mug.

Other highlights are Jaime and Brienne saving each other multiple times to make it through to dawn.  Also Missandei calling out Sansa's rivalry with Daenerys in the crypts.  The dragons were as a whole pretty good as well.

I think that pretty much sums up what I liked, everything else I didn't.  So yeah, I was not a fan of this episode.

Those that I have emphasized in bold are exactly the thing I didn't like in the episode. By the way, Dany didn't slid off Drogon intentionally, she fell (I have watched the episode twice already) and she was completely terrified and helpless without her dragon (which is fine, since she has no fighting skills at all). And I actually wanted to slap Missandei at that moment, she irritates me since last season and her smug pompous manner. Sansa and Tyrion have long history and they were having their conversation, when she decided to put in her two cents in other people's conversation. I am disappointed she still lives (meaningless and dull character, despite the beauty of the actress and great and meaningful book character).

23 hours ago, Error-504 said:

Ok, I will get my crayons out.

You said Bran most likely wouldn't like Dany. Basd on what exactly. I used jamie as a reference to show that Bran is capable of looking past quite a bit if he sees good in a person. that is why I brought up Jamie. I am sayinig, if bran can like jamie, he most certainly can like Dany. It's not like Bran is going to concern himself with personality. 

 

Oy Vey. 

Understanding context is everything. I said nothing about Sansa in specific. I said Bran though looking at Dany, was addressing everyone in the room. That included Sansa, last I checked. 

Re-read: I said MY PERSONAL OPINION few times... let's wait and see who will love or not who

Last time I checked they were not even in the room at all, but I get what you are saying...He just happened to be looking at and talking to Dany particularly because it was she who had to hear him. 

16 hours ago, Error-504 said:

The former slaves of marreen would like to have a word with you. 

I bet they would, since they are not used to question her decision. That's what I was trying to say: it is easy to free the slaves, who are just becoming free people with free will, and rule them, the other thing is to rule those who were free and whom you are not freeing, but rather otherwise- conquering. She does not understand that...I mean at all.

16 hours ago, Error-504 said:

 

Except it has everything to do with the current discussion, so stop trying to move the goal posts. This is what you said:

"am guessing Bran is not fond of Dany at all - he actually expressed his attitude by only one phase said almost with contempt "We don't have time for this..." I presume that he knows that Dany would never abandon her crown even to save her people, she lacks that kind of self-sacrifice features (her lame attempt to be a good queen by marring a man she despises does not count, she didn't have to put her crown aside, it was done more to establish her as a queen rather than otherwise)"

You speculating how Bran feels about Dany. I am saying BS. It's actually quite obvious to everyone that Jamie has committed far more heinous acts than Dany (and I am a Jamie fan btw). And yet has Bran come to the same conclusion about him? Considering he is on trial in episode 2, and fighting for the North in episode 3, it's fairly safe to say Bran didn't condemn him. And I am quite sure he wasn't waiting for him outside all day just to tell him off either. The fact is, both Dany and Jamie have made some questionable decisions in the past, but they have both given up their personal ambitions for the time being for the greater good. To forgive one, yet not the other would be hypocritical. 

 

who said anything about Sansa? And what did Dany do up to that point except be very nice to Sansa? What Sansa said, compared to the bitch face she had when she said it was the only shade thrown before Bran spoke.

 

So...it was you who brought up Jaime to this discussion. I still do not understand what Jaime and his history with Bran have anything to do with this discussion. Yes, I am speculating and that's why I wrote "personally" at least few time, if you haven't noticed. Let's just wait and see who is right. 

I am not discussing Jaime's heinous crimes (among them one which is actually heroic - slaying the Mad King) and certainly not comparing them to Dany's, that's absurd. One thing Jaime lacks - hunger to power, which both Dany and Cersei have, so comparing them would be more logical and appropriate. Additionally, Dany has no history with Bran at all. I definitely didn't use words like "condemn" when I talked about Bran and Dany.

Once again...Sansa was not obliged to do more than curtesy requires and she wasn't obliged "to fell blindly in love" with Dany on the spot, while Dany was actually expecting her to. Yes, after Dany's reaction - sort of "wtf" look on Dany's face after Sansa's cold curtesy- he broke the conversation and addressed directly Dany, because that was she who should have heard about dead dragon.  

And by the way, it was you who "said something about Sansa" and I just addressed your post, go and re-read.

14 minutes ago, Error-504 said:

 

Does it matter who was talking at the moment? That line was clearly intended for everyone in attendance, not just Dany. Not to mention it was Sansa that started the ball rolling down that court. 

You can say that about most every character in GOT. And I do not thing you can draw any definite conclusions yet as to what type of ruler she might be. 

Let's not involve Jamie why? Because doing so makes your argument weak? The fact of the matter is, if Bran is willing to forgive Jamie, not doing so for Dany is hypocritical. 

No, because it has nothing to do with current discussion and it is absolutely different story. Whether Bran is going to forgive Jamie or not  (personally, I hope that he does) does not say anything about Bran's attitude to Dany. Where is weakness in my argument? I told you before...let's just see, Time will tell what Bran thinks of Dany...for now I, personally, think he not that fond of her.

As for Sansa...Sansa actually did everything by the rules. "Winterfell is yours, your grace" - is not just a curtesy, but it's both submission and acknowledging Dany as a queen. Sansa is not obliged to kiss her ass right away and love her blindly, she is not that stupid little girl she was in season 1 anymore. Trust must be earned. Dany came to the North as much for the North survival as for her own (since she wants to sit the Iron Throne and rule the Seven Kingdoms, which would surely be swept away by the NK and his army and then she would be "ruling over the graveyard" as Jon said). 

As for "You can say that about most every character in GOT" - try to say something controversial about the likes of Davos or Brianne, or Meera Reed, Dolorous Edd, Lady Mormont etc. Despite the fact that I actually like Dany, I have always been a strong believer that she is not fit to rule...at all. That is because she wants it too badly and I doubt (after this episode even more) that she would be able to give any power away, which is sadly be the end of her (I personally think so), let's say it will be a lesson for all: a girl that came all that way, survived all that she had suffered, but thinks that she is some kind of undoubted messiah, will in the end become bitter powerhungry...queen (just like Cersei). Power corrupts.

On 4/17/2019 at 12:08 AM, Error-504 said:

Bran didn't seem to express any contempt when he told Sam that Dany was coming, so I dismiss this argument as BS. I am sure Bran is quite aware that the North needs Dany, unlike the Northern fools. I don't think Brans comment was at all directed solely at Dany, but to both Sansa, Dany, lady Mormont, etc. What he was saying to everyone was that we don't have time for this petty bickering, period. I highly doubt Bran is the one to make snap character judgments, but looks at the big picture as well. No one is saying Dany hasn't made mistakes, but hell, Bran is about to forgive Jamie, something you shouldn't forget.  I also don't think Bran possess's the ability to foresee the future, and determine Dany is going to be bad. If you want to make something out of the looks bran was giving off, your much better to re-examine the look he was giving tyrion. 

I understand what he was trying to say. But he told that to her directly, by the way, Lady Mormont wasn't near (well she was obviously, but she wasn't taking part in that conversation). Bran interrupted the conversation directly after Dany reacted on Sansa's coldness and told that line her particularly. I agree, of course, that Bran one of few who sees the big picture (even more than anyone else, I would say). Time will tell what he thinks of Dany. There is a reason why he insists on Jon knowing the truth and I doubt it is because of incest. 

Of course, Bran does not see the future, I think in some cases with Dany - the past and the present is quite enough to understand what kind of person she is (mind you, I like Dany to some extent, but I do not appreciate some decisions she does and attitudes she has - demanding blind loyalty for one)

Let's not involve Jamie - Bran story and dynamics in discussion of Dany and Bran's attitude. Jamie is much more redeeming and complicated character despite his frankly simple desires. Dany has no history with Bran.

On 4/15/2019 at 9:16 AM, Jabar of House Titan said:

I saw and still see nothing wrong with Daenerys' execution of the Tarlys.

Randyll Tarly made a vow to Olenna Tyrell, his liege. He then betrayed his liege for the likes of Cersei Lannister...and he had known Olenna Tyrell for what? 40-50 years? And then he made several racist comments towards Daenerys' men. And then he refused to bend the knee or take the black.

Janos Slynt did less than Randyll Tarly did...yet when Jon executed him, no one blinked an eye.

Dickon Tarly made a dumb decision. There was no need for him to do what he did. In fact, I hate Randyll Tarly even more for allowing his son (his "favorite" son at that) to join him in his execution.

There was absolutely nothing wrong with what Daenerys did. A lot of other people (Tywin, Littlefinger, Lysa,, Cersei, Aerys, etc.) would not have asked.

A dragonglass spear with a detachable spearhead. The detachable spearhead can be used as a dagger.

In the end that Dickon's dumb decision is Dany's dumb decision. Randyll is one thing, but as Varys said "not burn him alive along side his son", which basically means "leave at least one of them alive" - Dickon. I bet that Dickon's death will blow her in the face later, because no one should ever underestimate Sam (especially in combination with Bran). I am guessing Bran is not fond of Dany at all - he actually expressed his attitude by only one phase said almost with contempt "We don't have time for this..." I presume that he knows that Dany would never abandon her crown even to save her people, she lacks that kind of self-sacrifice features (her lame attempt to be a good queen by marring a man she despises does not count, she didn't have to put her crown aside, it was done more to establish her as a queen rather than otherwise)

Randyll Tarly is not a lovable character, but he is consistent at least. He chose Cersei over Olenna because of Dany's Unsullied and Dothraki, which is understandable. Racist or not...they are foreign invaders...I would like to see you making that decision when a foreign army is invading your country, mind you, there is war going on in my country right now (invaders are not of another race and that does not matter for me, invader is an invader).

Janos Slynt is absolutely different story since Janos was SWORN brother of the Night's Watch and disobeyed a direct order of his commander, while Randyll Tarly has no allegiance to Dany and her cause, he swore no oaths to her, he was her PRISONER. 

Let's not theorize about who would do what... why don't you compare what other characters would do then, characters like Rhaegar, Ned, Davos, Tyrion...It was Dany who made that idiotic decision. 

Additionally, her attitude to Westeros and Westerosi is sheer hypocrisy: one thing is to free slaves and expect blind loyalty (even Messandei does not question her decisions and just serves her blindly), the other thing is to inspire loyalty among non-slaves who are actually used to criticize and question decision...thus, she chose "free the slaves, but enslave the free" approach. So much for breaking the wheel and inspiring loyalty. 

8 hours ago, NonoNono said:

Cersei was definitely fake-drinking the wine. She is playing Euron, it’s pretty obvious. She will pull the same thing she did on Robert. She’ll tell Euron she’s pregnant from him to secure his loyalty. Remember Tytos warned her about Euron not being loyal, and she does need an heir. It just won’t be his son.

Agree. Maybe that's why she wants both her brothers dead?
I do not understand why she would order to kill them. I am confused.

On 4/15/2019 at 5:59 AM, direwoofwoof said:

Yes! That was a major theme in the Fire and Blood book. It took many years for rider AND dragon to get comfortable riding together and they grew up together (dragon egg was placed in child's crib). A few people died hopping on adult dragons for first time.

 

I would argue with that. Throughout the Fire and Blood book and the Dance with Dragons story (the real history, not the last book) it was almost explained that the dragonrider should have Valyrian blood and the dragon should "accept" the rider. It is not exactly necessary to have an egg placed in your crib (that tradition was established way later than dragonriders have existed). The bond between the dragon and the rider seems to be based on the "dared-accepted" concept. For example, Balerion the Black Dread had at least 3 other riders apart from Aegon and we don't know whether Aegon was the first, since Balerion was one of the dragons that were born in Valyria and it was brought to Dragonstone by Aenar (it seems by a dragonrider). Aegon rode Balerion when it was already more than 100 years old. There are countless examples of such bonding, when the dragon used to be somebody else's and then another Targ came and claimed it. It seems that a dragon without living dragonrider should "accept" the rider, who dared to claim it, or the would-be-rider dies. As far as we know, Valyrians (Targs, for instance) just went to the dragon "pits" at Dragonstone and chose the dragon, they never put eggs into the cribs until Rhaena did it for the fist time and sometime later it became a tradition.  

1 minute ago, Zumbs said:

I assumed that Daenerys based her belief on being barren on not having a period anymore rather than the word of Mirri Maz Duur. It seems that her monthly period wasn't a dead giveaway for Daenerys. Maybe her education just wasn't that big on the facts of life?

Do not remember anything in the show about her period, but in the books she had her periods, I suppose, since she had miscarriage in the end of Dance and thought it was her period, which she was missing for some time.

52 minutes ago, kukukazoo said:

Nope. Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar without telling her family, so her brother charged into King's Landing looking for answers (and demanding her back), Aerys captured him instead, and when Ned's father came Aerys murdered them in horrific ways, and demanded Arryn give up his wards. So the rebellion was based on Aerys being mad, and Arryn sticking by Ned Stark and Robert Baratheon. Saying it was "based on a lie" implies they weren't justified.

Actually, the official version of the events is that she was kidnapped and raped - the event that lead to Brandon and Rickard's deaths and their deaths lead to other events in turn - and Bran has just discovered that she actually ran off and even married the prince on her own will. That's why he said "based on lie". It all has started with her "kidnapping and raping". Aerys, being the biggest idiot and a madman, just put some oil on small fire  and it burst out.

3 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I've a feeling that Arya and Sansa are playing LF,  and the convo in the parents' room is part of the con.

I hope the same, I really do!

9 hours ago, Capo Ferro said:

 

A.  There are quite a lot of super-human abilities displayed in the books and in the show.  Yes, Dany surviving the funerary fire (which isn't as one off as some people suggest -- it's something that's hinted at before it happens with Dany enjoying bathwater that her handmaidens find scaldingly hot and hinted at after -- the line about Viserys being no dragon is from the books.  Danerys does get burned and blistery in the book but there is a lot of textual support for the idea that Daenerys is, if not immune to burning, at least unnaturally resistant to heat damage.  

Read the Dunk and Egg stories- Aegon V (Dany's great-grandfather) has the same (I mean literally the same - hot bath, sun, hot stones) heat resistance, but, unfortunately, he died in the fire while trying to hatch dragons. It seems that Dany survived because of blood magic and not because of her fireproof abilities. 

3 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

Wife of John wouldn't be Lady Stark.  She already learned in Crossroads that Jon SNOW is KitN.

It remains that Rickon could have married.  Bran is still too young, no?

Richon is even younger than Bran, so no.

Arya could just assume that Jon has taken up Stark name and got married. That is a possibility, but anyway, I personally think that she just didn't know that Sansa was alive and in Winterfell that's why she asked "which Lady Stark". Or else it is absolutely meaningless scene - bad writing

2 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

I don't think Tyrion speaks Dothraki. The Dothraki will probably be shipped back to Essos once the throne is secured. Same way the wildlings will stay in the gift and around the wall, to avoid upsetting northern lords.

Well, I do not know whether he speaks it or not. He is a smart man, he could have learnt some Dothraki. 
Anyway, Tyrion acted as if he understood what that man said.
"Once the throne is secured" you said, so you presume that Dany won't use any soldiers against WW? I doubt that she will get IT before the Long Night and the Army of the Dead comes.

Am I the only one who felt sorry for Tyrion. And since I despise Dothraki as a culture, I didn't like the comment that smug idiot said to Tyrion. I really hope they find out very soon what winter means. I hope the wildlings could be able to show them what fighting means. I'm not completely fond of the wildlings either, but in comparison... At least among wildling we had real personalities, not just stupid superstitious flock.
All those people who keep saying that Dany would defeat WW and thier army alone...just imagine completely unprepared southern army like Dothraki and Unsullied during winter storms. Even 3 dragons won't help. As Old Nan said "oh, my sweet summer child...what do you know of..."

12 hours ago, xander_blackfyre said:

Bran just keeps getting more and more creepy.  I mean not even that scene with Meera was just painful, I mean Thank You, that's it.  

 

To be fair, it was Jojen who insisted over and over again on Bran going to Three eyed crow, North of the Wall, in the first place. She went to help her feeble brother, not Bran. And when her own brother sacrificed himself - it was his desicion and Bran wasn't glad about that as well - she didn't want even to help Bran. And now she is complaining, as if everything was Bran's fault. Really, what could he tell her to make her feel better about herself - she is depressed since her brother was killed by the wight. Although, yes Bran became creepy emotionless, considering how emotional he always was.
Yes, the scene is painful, but it was necessary to show us that Bran "died" in that cave. I suspect Hodor incident changed him completely. I think he made a huge mistake there and then, which was neccessary for him to learn the main thing about being the Great Greenseer - do not mess with the past and do not intervene. Do you remember how pitifully Bloodraven looked at him when they "visited" Winterfall and he learnt about Hodor being called Walder, as if he knew that something like that would happen. I liked Max von Sydow in this role, by the way.

11 hours ago, Paid Debt Lannister said:

As much as Daenerys is a brat, sorry guys but she isn't the Mad Queen. She is holding her dragons at bay. In the meantime, Cersei blew up a portion of the city killing a lot of people and no one is addressing that? Where is this show's (and its audience's) logic?

On this I totally agree. Cersei is the Mad Queen. She will show us that once again in the end, I think

57 minutes ago, falcotron said:

You must know all the fan theories on that one.

Maggie explicitly says "the valonqar", not "your valonqar".

And everyone, even people who speak High Valyrian fluently, is too stupid to remember that many High Valyrian words with masculine grammatical gender are semantically ungendered: The Prince That Was Promised actually means The Prince or Princess That Was Promised.

So it could be anyone's little brother or little sister. Which means Arya is a candidate. But then so are 80% of the people in Westeros.

In fact, "brother" isn't restricted to humans in English, so why should we expect "valonqar" to be in Valyrian? Ser Pounce is a little brother, so he's a candidate too.

And the thing is, as stupid as all of this sounds—why on earth would Maggie say "valonqar" in Valyrian when the rest of the prophecy is in Common unless there's supposed to be some surprise twist like this? If I said "You will die at the hands of the fraterculus", and I actually meant your little brother rather than someone with the Latin title or nickname or whatever, I'm not even pretentiously showing off that I know Latin, I'm just being a jackass for no reason.

 There is actually a little flaw in this theory: Maeggi said "HIS hands...", thus, I think it should be male after all. This whole theory Arya being valonqar could be real only if she puts on Jamie's or Tyrion's face and kills Cersei, but that's a very poor story for the characters. Jamie should be broken in the end, after all, redemption is a very hard work to do.