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Feather Crystal

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  1. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Just so. There are a lot of readers that use Ned's fever dream to support a number of theories with R+L=J being the biggest one. I suspect that the only thing that may be true is that Ned and Howland went to Starfall to return Arthur Dayne's sword. The rest is questionable.
  2. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Examining Dunk's dream could and should be used in comparison to Ned's fever dream. Many elements in Dunk's dream are not true. Sometime after The Hedge Knight and before The Sworn Sword, Dunk and Egg make their way to Dorne, presumably to look for Tanselle-too-tall as hinted at the end of The Hedge Knight. Dunk thinks to himself: While awake Dunk confirms that the only part of the dream that was true was that Chestnut died on the way to Vaith in Dorne, and that he and Egg rode double on Thunder until Egg's brother gave them the mule, Maester. So, the grave digging was wasn't true. The three Dornish knights mocking him while he dug wasn't true. Dunk's weeping while he talked with the knights wasn't true. Ser Arlan certainly was not there. He was dead before Dunk even met Egg. Neither was Baelor Breakspear nor Prince Valarr there, much less alive. Baelor died at Dunk's trial by combat at Ashbury Meadow, and Valarr during the Great Spring Sickness which occurred while Dunk and Egg were in Dorne. Big Rob the simpleton was asleep downstairs while Dunk was having the dream, so he couldn't have been dead from the belly wound. Dunk hadn't even met Big Rob, Ser Bennis, Treb, Wet Wat, Wat, Lem, and Pate until he came to work for Ser Eustace Osgrey. If all of these people were never with Dunk and Egg in Dorne, then why should we believe that Ned and his men fought the three Kingsguard at the tower of joy, or be sure that all three died there?
  3. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    You're quite right with regards to the quote. I must have misremembered it and associated the three Baratheon brothers as being the broken tines, because House Baratheon is quite shattered like the antler. At the end of Dance Stannis was very much alive, while the mummer's version hints at his death, but of course this hasn't been confirmed in the books, at least not yet.
  4. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I read the below passage today and thought it was applicable to not just Dunk's dream, but ASOIAF as a whole. It brought to mind the dead mother direwolf scene, which according to GRRM was the inspiration for the entire series of ASOIAF. Its not the opening of AGoT, because the prologue about Ser Waymar Royce meeting the white walkers is, but technically it is the first chapter. The quote is from a professional screenwriter: The beginning is a literal wound taken by a dead mother direwolf - the cause of death a broken antler from a stag in its throat. Symbolically its the death of House Stark by House Baratheon. You can disagree with my assessment, but it seems plain to me. Duncan's dream of seeing Big Rob the simpleton in the grave with a wound to his belly also appears to be a straightforward condensation of what Robert Baratheon did. In a nutshell, I believe it will come to light that King Bob: 1) Conspired with Cersei and Tywin in order to become king 2) Participated in Lyanna's kidnapping dressed in armor that looked like Rhaegar's 3) I don't think he purposely intended to kill Lyanna, but he did feel possessive towards her. 4) The three broken tines represent each Baratheon brother. All three end up causing harm to House Stark even if unintended. 5) The resolution of the story will include a Baratheon helping to restore House Stark.
  5. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Dunk's dream has several elements beginning with a tourney, nearly losing a hand and a foot which I think parallels Ned's loss of brother and father. The mention of a falling star is perhaps an echo for Rhaegar, while his painted shield nods toward the knight of the laughing tree. The loss of three good men could be the three Kingsguard. The fact that Dunk gained Egg as a squire makes me wonder if Howland was Ned's squire after Harrenhal Tourney? The elements of the red mountains and sands of Dorne are of course the same, as well as the mention of the Prince's Pass. The trio of Dornish knights are more readily recognized this time as the Kingsguard. The grave digging echoes the cairns that Ned made, while the description of the death of Chestnut seems like it could be Lyanna. Why compare Lyanna to a horse? The text says she was a centaur, an excellent horse rider, and there was a discussion awhile back regarding the identity of the KotLT as being an incident of skinchanging where Pretty Pig thought Lyanna skin changed into Howland's horse. Ned allows Arya's sword training, because we suspect Lyanna died partly due to a lack of fighting skills. The men in Dunk's dream mock him for crying over a horse. This could go a few ways. It could be an indication that no-one knew Lyanna was inside that horse, or even when Ned buried her no one knew he was burying his sister. The couple mentions about not wanting to waste water in the desert seems like its supposed to have a double meaning. Anyone have any ideas? I think Big Rob the simpleton's appearance in the grave with the gaping wound in his belly is Robert Baratheon - gored by the bore. Lastly, Egg being buried alive in the grave seems to hint that Howland is now a greenseer. I agree that it seems as if Ned and Howland showed up in Jaime's dream. I think the numbers add up. In Ned's fever dream wasn't it seven against three? In Jaime's dream its seven against two, but Ned's men were wraiths just as Jaime's Kingsguard brothers were armored in snow (death).
  6. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    The current topic seems to have run out of steam, so I propose a new subject. I've been rereading Dunk and Egg stories and came across Duncan's dream, which has some very similar elements to Ned's Fever Dream, as well as nods to the Harrenhal Tourney, the Knight of the Laughing Tree, and even King Robert's death by goring. I've got my own opinions about it, but I'd like to save them for now and hear other ideas for why its so similar, and any other thoughts you have about it.
  7. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I answer your question and you tell me I’m off topic??? Lol Heresy typically doesn’t stick to one topic anyways, but allows the discussion to develop organically.
  8. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Ygritte said if some people wanted the land badly enough, they should have stayed and fought for it. But her comments weren't so much as the position of a lord with a holdfast, but to the common people who aren't allowed to own land. In a medieval system the kings allow the nobility to hold lands, and reward certain loyal subjects by allowing them to be "land owners", but they don't truly own the land. Only the king does. The general populous is not allowed to own or hold lands. They can live under the protection of a lord to raise crops or tend livestock, but they're not allowed to fish in the streams and lakes, nor to hunt in any of the woods. This was her true objection - that only lords or people allowed by kings should get to hold land. The only person that lawfully owns the land (kingdom) is the king.
  9. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    This is an excellent point. If the source of the current white walkers are Craster's sons, how did the very first sacrifice work?
  10. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I base my theory about the lost lands of the wildlings on Ygritte. Her description of kings with crowns and steel swords sound Andal to me: The Children "helped" the Last Hero - and somehow the first Nights Watch - to ride out and defeat the Others, and they build the Wall. Presumably the defeated are the people north of the Wall. The wildlings frequently stress that they "will not kneel". Here's what Val says: The white walkers and wights cannot pass the Wall, and neither could 10,000 wildlings all climb over undetected. Sure they could go to one of the undefended castles, but all the other gates have been filled in with rubble and ice. That leaves climbing over. The elderly, weak, or very young would not be physically able enough to climb the 700 foot Wall and rappel down the other side. The far western edge of the Wall is mountainous with a deep gorge, also too treacherous for the general populous of wildlings. Castle Black, and likely Eastwatch, are the only two gates through the Wall where people could ride or walk through. Mance attacked Castle Black, but was defeated, mainly by Stannis. Jon was treating with Mance when Stannis arrived, so we do not know what the outcome may have been if Stannis had not come. The wildlings trailed behind the white walkers and wights coming down the Frostfangs following the Milkwater, and were still behind them when they reached the Fist of the First Men, yet by the time they were at the Wall Harma noted that the wights should be behind them. The fighting at the Wall didn't draw any white walkers or wights, neither were the outdoor holding cells north of the entrance attacked. The next report of wights is near Eastwatch. Once the wildlings were allowed through the Wall a broken sword was tossed in one of the carts the Watch had ready: Ser Waymar Royce's sword had a similar description:
  11. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    If Mance and his wildlings attacked the Wall and forced their way through, the northern clans would have organized against them and they'd have an even bigger war on their hands. The wildlings want to take back lands that they used to own, namely the Gift, as well as all the north, and more importantly, Winterfell. Leaving the Wall up to prevent the wights from progressing south is a very good reason not to use the Horn of Winter, but if the wildlings are the source of the white walkers, they are well equipped to survive winter. The white walkers are soldiers with extreme, specialized gear. Very difficult to defeat without obsidian or Valyrian blades. To gain shelter they only have to take castles and holdfasts as they move south to Winterfell, which they view as their seat. Mance had more ulterior motives for wanting to go to Winterfell than helping Jon with Arya. If he can get down into the lower levels of the crypts he can remove the wards holding their ancient ancestors prisoner. Theon told Stannis that Winterfell is full of ghosts.
  12. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    To convince the Watch that the wildlings were not the true threat and unite them against a common foe, and ultimately prevent the southern houses and clans from rising up in arms against them once they were through the Wall.
  13. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    If my suspicions are true that the wildlings are behind the creation of the white walkers, then they control where the white walkers range, and the cold of the white walkers dictate where the wights go, therefore Craster really does have nothing to fear, because he's a wildling himself. Mance visited Craster, and he may have shared his plans, but Craster - being that he bears a heavy curse - whatever that means - didn't feel compelled to participate. He doesn't want to move south of the Wall, so he didn't - content that he has nothing to fear.
  14. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Ygritte corrected Jon and said wildlings steal daughters not wives, but Craster "marries" his daughters. At what age, we don't know, but assume as soon as they flower, not leaving much opportunity for there to be any available daughters. Royce wasn't attacked after visiting Craster. He's attacked after Will brings him to where he saw 8 wildlings - 7 sitting or laying on the ground, and 1 up a tree with "far eyes". Its notable that when Will brings Royce to see, they wildlings had disappeared. It's my position that the 8 wildlings became white walkers, otherwise Royce, Will, and Gared should have come across 8 wights.
  15. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Yes, but not every Targaryen babe is deformed either.
  16. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Regarding Craster's sons...we have a few "facts" which dictate our conclusions, but are then influenced by our biases based on our preferred narratives. 1) Craster gives his sons "to the woods", because he's a "godly man". And he "bears a heavy curse". 2) Bran, Hodor, Jojen, and Meera walked through a passage full of bones in Bloodraven's cave. “Bones,” said Bran. “It’s bones.” The floor of the passage was littered with the bones of birds and beasts. But there were other bones as well, big ones that must have come from giants and small ones that could have been from children. On either side of them, in niches carved from the stone, skulls looked down on them. Bran saw a bear skull and a wolf skull, half a dozen human skulls and near as many giants. All the rest were small, queerly formed. Children of the forest. The roots had grown in and around and through them, every one. Bran concluded that the small, queerly formed skulls were those of the Children of the Forest, but it's also possible that they're the bones of Craster's sons - the "queerly formed" skulls could be genetic deformities much like the deformed Targaryen infants with wings and tails. What I find interesting is that most readers conclude that the Children must have eaten the meat from all these carcasses, and then left all the bones in one place - taking the time to put the skulls into niches in the wall. 3) Craster's wives believe the white walkers - the cold gods - collect the sons, and this belief is perpetuated with Craster's penchant for sacrificing sheep or goats when there are no sons. If the infant sons are sacrificed to create white walkers, what are sheep and goats used for? Do all these "facts" go together? Or are they unrelated and isolated incidences that have been spoon-fed to the reader to purposely lead us astray until the author can surprise us with a reveal?
  17. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I think a majority of readers understand that “the Others” are more than just the white walker shadows, and would include every race trapped beyond the Wall including the Children of the Forest, the giants, and every tribe of wildling.
  18. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I reread The Princess and the Queen, or, the Blacks and the Greens last night - GRRM's bloody long short story about the Dance of the Dragons. In the beginning Aegon II was reluctant to accept the crown over his older sister, but was persuaded due to fear for the lives of his mother, wife, and children. The belief that his sister, Rhaenerya would kill his immediate family grew quickly into contempt and hatred. He basically "otherized" his sister. In the end his disassociation of Rhaenerya as “sister” and association of “other” grew to hatred, and ultimately resulted in her death -execution - when he fed her to his dragon. The World Book suggests that the ancestors of the wildlings were also otherized and forced north to be contained - imprisoned or exiled really - beyond the Wall. Ygritte gave Jon a short history lesson about this long ago split between the First Men tribes: “This land belongs to the Watch,” Jon said. Her nostrils flared. “No one lives here.” “Your raiders drove them off.” “They were cowards, then. If they wanted the land they should have stayed and fought.” “Maybe they were tired of fighting. Tired of barring their doors every night and wondering if Rattleshirt or someone like him would break them down to carry off their wives. Tired of having their harvests stolen, and any valuables they might have. It’s easier to move beyond the reach of raiders.” But if the Wall should fail, all the north will lie within the reach of raiders. “You know nothing, Jon Snow. Daughters are taken, not wives. You’re the ones who steal. You took the whole world, and built the Wall t’ keep the free folk out.” “Did we?” Sometimes Jon forgot how wild she was, and then she would remind him. “How did that happen?” “The gods made the earth for all men t’ share. Only when the kings come with their crowns and steel swords, they claimed it was all theirs. My trees, they said, you can’t eat them apples. My stream, you can’t fish here. My wood, you’re not t’ hunt. My earth, my water, my castle, my daughter, keep your hands away or I’ll chop ’em off, but maybe if you kneel t’ me I’ll let you have a sniff. You call us thieves, but at least a thief has t’ be brave and clever and quick. A kneeler only has t’ kneel.” Edited to add: I think its telling that Jon thinks to himself that should the Wall fail, all the north will lie within the reach of raiders. This is the heart of the matter and the reason why the wildlings were otherized and forced north in the first place. The wildlings know that even though small bands of them can climb over the Wall to raid, they climb back again, because the people south of the Wall would band together against them. How best to remove that threat than to convince the Watch and the people south of the Wall that they share a common enemy? The Others of old are so demonized that the Watch and people in general associate the evil acts that they did with white walkers and wights, but forgot the source that created them. Furthermore the white walkers and wights get lumped in with other "creatures" that haven't been seen in thousands of years, namely the Children of the Forest, giants, skinchangers, and wargs. But just because the unseen "creatures" share this one commonality doesn't mean they are all in alliance. The Children refer to the giants as "our brothers and our bane", meaning that while they view the giants as one of the old races pushed beyond the Wall just like themselves (brother), they are not friends and allies (bane). The giants do seem to be allied with Mance and the other wildlng clans, so by association they're all the Children's "bane".
  19. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Yup. I agree with this, and the next step would be to examine motive.
  20. Feather Crystal

    Why Asha such a terminator?

    You make it sound as if every man would be stronger than Asha, or any woman for that matter. Swords aside for the moment, I'd like to see an average, ordinary man take on 5'7" 135 lb Ronda Rousey in hand to hand combat. Women can just as easily be trained to fight as well as a man. I don't think GRRM states Asha's height or weight, but why should she automatically be weaker than any man of the same height or weight? Lets move on to a few, real life female soldiers who demonstrate that women have the physical capacity, strength, and abilities equal to a man. Major Lauren Edwards US Marine Corps. Her physical fitness rivals any man. She can run a perfect male physical fitness test, which includes running three miles in 18 minutes, doing 20 pull-ups and 100 sit-ups in two minutes, a feat even males find it incredibly difficult to do. She led more than 150 Marines and several vehicles in defensive maneuvers during the invasion of Iraq. Sergeant Sherri Gallagher US Army is a shooter in the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit. She beat out 11 other competitors for the title of Soldier of the Year. She bested her competition — mostly male — in events such as hand-to-hand combat, urban maneuvers, detainee operations, casualty evaluation, weapons familiarization, and night firing. Another sergeant, Sgt. Leigh Ann Hester US Army killed several enemy combatants while under attack in Iraq, saving American lives. Hester is one of the few women to be awarded for valor in close-quarters combat. When she and her squad came under fire by enemy combatants while stationed in Iraq, Hester helped repel more than two dozen Iraqi insurgents. Amazingly, Hester walked directly into the line of fire to kill at least three enemy combatants at close range. Your viewpoint that women cannot be as strong as a man is biased and factually inaccurate to say the least.
  21. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Just a quick aside...I don’t think 50 miles per day on horseback is “low”. On the contrary the pioneers only averaged 10 miles per day, but some of them walked along side the wagons. A single rider could probably ride 20 miles a day, but to achieve 50 miles per day would require galloping which would be hard on the horse if done multiple days in a row. Just saying.
  22. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Not just to you, but to everyone here...how many here believe this line is referring to the Wall (curtain of light) and now many believe its something even further north - like say, past the land of the Thenns? I understand how you could be tempted to interpret it this way - and the mummer's version is most certainly setting it up this way as well with similar clothing between Bran and the Nights King - but why would the Nights King have a direwolf named Summer? Bran's job it to defeat winter - or at least prevent it from becoming permanent. Isn't the threat of winter that it will last a generation or longer?
  23. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    The mummer's version plays up the white walkers leading the wights pretty hard, but it isn't that way in the books. Once the wildlings are through the Wall the focus is manning the castles, "saving" wildlings that haven't made it through yet, and gathering men to attack Winterfell.
  24. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    Exact-o-mundo. Steel is an alloy of mainly iron and carbon with some other lesser elements. Iron is a known element for warding against magic, as well as being the main component in Andal swords. Carbon is composed of organic and inorganic compounds, and occurs in all organic life. I think we all tend to associate carbon with aeons-old layers of dead animals and plant life, and found in various forms of compression, like crude oil, a solid form, diamonds, and as a gas. Because carbon is found in the ground, it naturally could be associated with obsidian which is volcanic glass from igneous rock. Obsidian even contains iron which gives it its dark color. To conclude, if obsidian contains iron and is an alloy (like steel) of various elements, is created (forged like a sword) by the extreme heat of volcanoes, found in the ground (like carbon), and can break magic spells (like iron), then I think it might be reasonable to conclude that dragonsteel is a sword made out of obsidian.
  25. Feather Crystal

    Heresy 209 Of Ice and of Fire

    I agree that is the story that Craster and his wives presented, and its implied that he worships the "cold gods" aka white walkers, but then there's also Ygritte's claim that "Craster's blood is black, and he bears a heavy curse", which to me implies that he is compelled to sacrifice...like he's being forced or he's obligated.
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