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NymeriaWarriorQueen

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  1. Maybe it was important to restore things to the way they were thousands of years before the Targaryen invasion. Torrhen Stark bent the knee to the Targaryens and maybe it was to restore their independence to what it was before the Targaryens made them part of the seven kingdoms. Of course, this would require one to assume that Sansa’s motives were solely done for the North with no selfish personal motives whatsoever.
  2. Just out of curiosity....where else is this occurring? Is it having a harmful effect on the writers and the HBO brand? Maybe I am naive but I thought the negativity was limited to forums like this and social media. The negative reactions and language used here is pretty typical to what I have experienced before for other shows when folks disliked the writing. HBO even expected some fan backlash. Also .....the opinions expressed here certainly do not reflect the majority of viewers reactions to the finale if polls like these are to be believed. https://people.com/tv/game-of-thrones-viewers-mostly-pleased-finale-poll/
  3. In Season 6 Daenerys was still in Meereen. If you read the article I linked in my initial post then you would have read that those scenes when she had gathered the Dothraki to go back to Meereen was suppose to have marked the shift in character from Dany in conflict to fully embracing fire and blood. I was just noting that got off track IMO once she decided to go after the NK because the viewers thought she was doing good and still being a savior. Maybe if she had just attacked and burned King’s Landing to the ground first then folks would have more clearly realized that she was a violent conqueror and not thought her change in character was so sudden or assassinated which is what the main topic post is about. Of course there are other instances showing Dany’s brutal side of her character but it was always balanced by a kinder and more compromising side before she turned completely dark. The transformation to pure violence was supposedly to have been in Season 6 (according to the director) but the author of the article said the writers did not do a very convincing job. I agree plus they didn’t follow up very well in Season 7 other than burning the Tarlys and that apparently still didn’t convince many fans she was really evil. It apparently took Season 8 Episodes 5 & 6 for most to get it and then many continued to deny it.
  4. Apparently we were suppose to have noticed a shift in Dany’s character back in Season 6 according to this article written in 2016. I agree that if you hadn’t read the books then you probably wouldn’t have realized that Dany was now through with peacekeeping and had decided to turn into a full blown violent conqueror. Her joining with the Northerners to go after the Night King implied her desire to defend innocents and so there was no indication in that storyline to reinforce the shift in her character from Season 6 so I can see why so many folks felt there was a sudden change which didn’t make sense to them. When you get a large segment of your viewing audience not following along then it is a failure of the writers and directing to adequately convey it in a convincing manner. https://www.vox.com/2016/6/2/11829546/game-of-thrones-episode-6-recap-daenerys-villain
  5. Here is a link to the poster who was summarizing for others on this forum that reading from an earlier draft. I will also C & P the relevant part. Interesting that GRRM decided to later change it so it wasn’t so explicit. Many readers still got it without it being plainly spelled out for them though. I suspect D & D thought TV viewers would pick up on it too with their writing. https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/49-pre-adwd-spoilers-daenerys-2-spoilers-for-adwd/&page=0 Dany thinks of her title, "mother of dragons," and wonders if "mother of monsters" is more appropriate. She despairs, thinking about what she may have unleashed on the world. She thinks that she is the blood of the dragon, and that if her children are monsters, then so is she. She looks at Ser Barristan and tells him that she told Xaro that she feared only one thing, though she would not tell the merchant what. Ser Barristan guesses that she only fears her dragons. "Myself," Dany tells him.
  6. Folks were analyzing Dany’s character as far back as the mid 2000’s or earlier. Here is a link to an essay which basically lays out her struggles with moral choices in Meereen. There is also a reference from a reading by GRRM in an early draft of a chapter in ADWD where he has Dany explicitly saying she feared herself. It was discussed at that time on these very forums.https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iii-danys-struggle-with-herself/
  7. The key advice I took from that conversation was basically warning her about becoming like the masters which is exactly what happened when she turned brutal herself in King’s Landing. Dany pointed out to Jorah all the horrors the masters enacted on slaves like they were beasts. Jorah then told her that herding the masters into pens and slaughtering them was also treating people like beasts. He told her the slaves she freed had always suffered from brutality and she needed to show them something else........something better. Not just more of the same. He reminded her that it was tempting to see evil in all men but there is good and evil in all men in every war that had been fought. He reminded her that he had once sold men into slavery and how he was here helping her to show them to freedom. I agree with you that a good ruler knows when to use which approach and I feel the purpose of Daenery’s stay in Slaver’s Bay was to present her with situations where she had to make these kind of moral choices. For the most part she did a good job but it was evident that she was struggling with the side of her that wanted to correct moral injustices with fairness and compromise versus the part of her who wanted to react with brutality, fire, and blood. Unfortunately, she decided to make the wrong choice in KL when she was unable to control her worst impulses and slaughtered innocents which ironically was the very thing she had always been against.
  8. Since the clip didn’t appear in my previous post, I will repost it here. This is Jorah Mormont advising her not to be brutal. https://youtu.be/Hi4pEMoJ1kE EDIT: Nevermind
  9. You need to go back and rewatch. Here is a clip of Barristan Selmy advising her and telling her. It was advisors like him that kept a check on her dark impulses. Here is also a link to a clip of Jorah Mormont changing Daenerys mind when she was going to resort to her worst impulses. Watch around 1:20 for Jorah’s advice and then she changes her mind. SO you are wrong about Tyrion being the only one to ever stop her. You need to keep in mind that Dany was drawn to Daario because he complemented her violent and darker side. That is where she naturally wanted to go when angered. She was always battling the two sides of her personality and once all the right factors came in place(loss, grief, betrayal) she fully embraced her cruel and violence side and became a murderous tyrant slaughtering innocents and burning them just like her mad father.https://youtu.be/Hi4pEMoJ1kE
  10. At the end of the day the person who is able to seize the throne by rebellion or conquest and then has the ability to keep the throne with the support of allies and the people is the one who has the most right to be the king. Titles and inherent right mean nothing if you are unable to seize power and keep it.
  11. Dany was always a favorite character of mine and I had hoped she would continue to embrace that side of her that protected innocents and valued high moral ideas. However, she always had a darker side especially when she was angry and felt injustice had been done. From the beginning, she had Jorah and later Barristan Selmy to ground her against her darker impulses. She wanted to be different than her father. Fate seemed to turn against her though when she lost her closest advisors and her children (Viserion and Rhaegon), and was betrayed by Cersei, Varys, Jaime, Tyrion, and Jon. She was isolated and so consumed with grief and rage that she succumbed to her darker impulses. Combining that with her strong belief that she alone was the rightful heir and deserving of the IT created a toxic recipe that led to the tragedy of her downfall. If the people of Westeros had rejoiced at her homecoming with open rebellion against Cersei then having the love of the people might have preserved that kinder and gentler side. As it was she snapped and took what she wanted along with revenge for those who did not support her through fear, fire, and blood.
  12. Today I read some enlightening essays on Untangling the Meerenese Knot. The 2nd essay argues that the purpose of Dany’s stay in Meereen was to set up a series of tests that will test her values. One of the most interesting things I found in the 3rd essay was the essayist referring to an early draft of Dany for ADWD which reportedly GRRM read at conventions in the early 2000’s. In fact....it was paraphrased here on the forums. It appears that Dany is already struggling with her self identity and that she fears herself (going mad like her father or full blown Fire & Blood). The writing for the chapter was later changed so that the language wasn’t as explicit. Here are the quotes for comparison: My fears were burned away the day I came forth from the fire. Only one thing frightens me now.” “And what is it that you fear, sweet queen? “I am only a foolish young girl.” Dany rose on her toes and kissed his cheek. “But not so foolish as to tell you that.” (ADWD DANY III) She looks at Ser Barristan and tells him that she told Xaro that she feared only one thing, though she would not tell the merchant what. Ser Barristan guesses that she only fears her dragons. “Myself,” Dany tells him. (PARAPHRASED EARLIER DRAFT OF ADWD DANY III)s Here is the link to the essay which I highly recommend. https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iii-danys-struggle-with-herself/
  13. Thanks for including the link to the video as well as your explanation. I subscribed to his channel.. I felt it was significant that he noted the 3YR was the winner of Game of Thrones rather than Bran when he concluded. I saw elsewhere today of someone noting there was a raven sitting on the throne with Ned Stark in a poster from Season One. No idea if that was meant as a spoiler at the time but interesting nonetheless. I understand that Bran’s journey is a compelling story. I was just questioning his ability to tell it to others since his speaking skills aren’t the best. However, he was apparently able to present it to Tyrion rather quickly that night and that was who needed to know in the long run. There is still much about the 3YR that is shrouded in mystery (at least for me) and I would like to know more.
  14. I just don’t understand Bran. What did Tyrion mean he has the best story? Was Tyrion entertained by what Bran told him and thought the rest of Westeros would be to? I don’t consider Bran a great conversationalist and the fact he could be a great storyteller just seems bizarre. How could anyone know for sure he is a force for good since we know practically nothing about the origins of the first 3YR which may not be Brynden Rivers. I just don’t see how anyone could make a judgment about him being the best choice given the limited information available. All I know from his robotic speech is that he really isn’t Bran anymore, he can’t be Lord of Winterfell cause he is the 3ER, Theon is a good man, that folks like Theon, Jaime, and Jon were exactly where they were suppose to be, and that he came to the council cause he knew he supposedly would be king. Is he a god or is he being used by the cotf? Just trying to figure him out gives me a headache. Hope GRRM gives us more about him than the show did.
  15. Exactly and she lost. She did not consider all the possibilities in her mind like Littlefinger taught Sansa. She never considered another Targ could get pass her dragon to kill her. She underestimated Jon and what he might do to stop her fire and blood vision of conquering the world. She didn’t play the GOT very well because her political skills were lacking. You never trust anyone in this game.
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