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NymeriaWarriorQueen

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Posts posted by NymeriaWarriorQueen


  1. Maybe it was important to restore things to the way they were thousands of years before the Targaryen invasion. Torrhen Stark bent the knee to the Targaryens and maybe it was to restore their independence to what it was before the Targaryens made them part of the seven kingdoms.  Of course, this would require one to assume that Sansa’s motives were solely done for the North with no selfish personal motives whatsoever.


  2. On 6/16/2019 at 11:54 AM, SerClout said:

    I just finished the chapter where Jon and the wildlings scaled the wall and Ygritte cries because they've searched so many places for the Horn of Winter, and even open hundreds of graves in hope to find it.

    All so they can tear down the wall. Doesn't that strike anyone else as unbelievable stupid? I asume that most wildlings are aware of what threat lies beyond the wall or gives some hint of it. Destrying the one structure that can keep the wights and Others away seems like a stupid plan, climbing and scaling the or any other way would be prefered, if the wall would break no one is safe.

     

    I get your point but I suspect at that point in time their immediate  concern was being able to get the wildlings across the wall. Most freefolk didn’t like the idea of a wall anyway.  It restricted their freedom and ability to roam as they please.  The Wall was an impediment to getting the giants, mammoths and their host of thousands on the other side since they couldn’t climb the wall.  


  3. 21 minutes ago, John Meta said:

    But, again, in this case, I don't really see "criticism" I see a self-righteous mob condemning innocent people and doing it very, very loudly - with an irrational pomp and a very pronounced hypocrisy. This, isn't about a story - to me, it's about a huge mob of irrational hypocrites growing a warped and corrupt tree from which all manner of foul fruit are produced. So when I see that - no matter what it's about, stories, politics, religion, you name it - I'm compelled to, grab and ax, cut down the tree - throw it into the fire.

    Just out of curiosity....where else is this occurring? Is it having a harmful effect on the writers and the HBO brand?    Maybe I am naive but I thought the negativity was limited to forums like this and social media. The negative reactions and language used here is pretty typical to what I have experienced before for other shows when folks disliked the writing.  HBO even expected some fan backlash.  Also .....the opinions expressed here certainly do not reflect the majority of viewers reactions to the finale if polls like these are to be believed. 

    https://people.com/tv/game-of-thrones-viewers-mostly-pleased-finale-poll/

     


  4. 35 minutes ago, RYShh said:

    Indeed, that statement from episode 6 proves that she cared about destroying the Night King, but it doesn't prove that she wanted to save the North. She doesn't say ''we will save the North'' she says ''We will destroy the Night King and his army'', because Night King and his army is also an obstacle for her quest to conquer Westeros.

    In Season 6 Daenerys was still in Meereen.  If you read  the article I linked in my initial post then you would have read that those scenes when she had gathered the Dothraki to go back to Meereen was suppose to have marked the shift in character from Dany in conflict to fully embracing fire and blood.  I was just noting that got off track  IMO once she decided to go after the NK because the viewers thought she was doing good and still being a savior.  Maybe if she had just attacked and burned King’s Landing to the ground first then folks would have more clearly realized that she was a violent conqueror and not thought her change in character was so sudden or assassinated which is what the main topic post is about.  Of course there are other instances showing Dany’s brutal side of her character but it was always balanced by a kinder and more compromising side before she turned completely dark.  The transformation to pure violence was supposedly to have been in Season 6 (according to the director) but the author of the article said the writers did not do a very convincing job. I agree plus they didn’t follow up very well in Season 7 other than burning the Tarlys and that apparently still didn’t convince many fans she was really evil. It apparently took Season 8 Episodes 5 & 6 for most to get it and then many continued to deny it.


  5. 5 hours ago, Raebo said:

    What does this stupid back and forth have to do with the OP?

    This thread has turned into the the worst thread I have seen on this forum.  If you need more than 3 post to prove your point, it is time to give it up.

    So true.  It seems like we are going in circles. 


  6. 8 hours ago, SeanF said:

    It doesn't matter.  Tywin condoned it, just as he condoned the murder of Elia and every other atrocity that Ser Gregor carried out on his behalf.  

    Prior to the Kings Landing inferno, Dany never perpetrated the kinds of atrocities that both Lannisters and Starks carried out in the Riverlands.

    Right and it is even worse in the books. Sometimes I wonder how Tyrion came up with those numbers he did about Daenerys killing more than all the rest of them.   


  7. 5 minutes ago, SeanF said:

    The argument upthread was that the Lannisters treated prisoners more. Humanely than Dany did

    Tough call considering Tywin’s association with sadistic folks like the Bloody Mummers, The Mountain, and then orchestrating The Red Wedding.  I have no love for him at all even though Charles Dance as Tywin in the TV series did some fine acting and was decent towards Ayra. I thought he was emotionally abusive to his children too.  He might have stopped some atrocities at Harrenhal when he arrived but he allowed far too many others to continue beginning with letting Gregor Clegane burn the Riverlands after Tyrion was taken by Catelyn Stark. The Martells in Dorne thought he was a pretty bad dude too.


  8. 1 hour ago, SeanF said:

    Ser Gregor Clegane subsequently murdered all the prisoners a Harrenhall..  So, at every level, they fared far worse than people who bent the knee to Dany.

    Daenerys was having Grey Worm executing prisoners after they had surrendered so I fail to understand your point. 


  9. 1 hour ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

    Didn't Bloodraven open Bran's third eye after Jaime pushed him from the tower, either while falling or sometime before he woke from his coma?

    Yes......that has already happened.    EDIT: Just read this:

    Here in the chill damp darkness of the tomb his third eye had finally opened. He could reach Summer whenever he wanted, and once he had even touched Ghost and talked to Jon.

    So it happened while they were hiding in the crypts.

     

     

     

     


  10. 49 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

    I wonder whether in the books, Bran won't be able to visit Jon at will, or even Arya. They're both wargs, after all, and he's a greenseer. Didn't Bran already open Jon's third eye?

    I am rereading A Clash of Kings and it seemed to me Jon was opening his third eye in one of his wolf dreams when he confronted a weirwood tree with a face that looked like his brother. He wondered if his brother had always had three eyes. The tree reached down and touched him and told him to open his third eye like this.  This is when he saw Mance Rayder gathering the freefolk along the Milkwater and knew their location. The warg eagle attacked Ghost with its talons.   Ghost was hurt when he returned to camp and Qhorin Halfhand knew then Jon was a warg and he told Qhorin about his dream.   What I don’t understand is how Bran was already the 3YR (crow) at that point in time.  He hadn’t even left Winterfell yet.  


  11. Apparently we were suppose to have noticed a shift in Dany’s character back in Season 6 according to this article written in 2016. I agree that if you hadn’t read the books then you probably wouldn’t have realized that Dany was now through with peacekeeping and had decided to turn into a full blown violent conqueror.  Her joining with the Northerners to go after the Night King implied her desire to defend innocents and so there was no indication in that storyline to reinforce the shift in her character from Season 6 so I can see why so many folks felt there was a sudden change which didn’t make sense to them.  When you get a large segment of your viewing audience not following along then it is a failure of the writers and directing to adequately convey it in a convincing manner.

    https://www.vox.com/2016/6/2/11829546/game-of-thrones-episode-6-recap-daenerys-villain


  12. 5 minutes ago, Apoplexy said:

    I don't buy that Jon's journey has been about servitude.

    I did not say servitude. I said servanthood. Jon’s basic personality or character is one whose natural inclination is to protect and put the needs others before his own.  This is called servanthood leadership style.  He chooses to serve others by choice and not as a slave.   He is unselfish and devoid of worldly ambitions which keep him from succumbing to greed and corruption.   He is a man of honor and duty.  He will sacrifice his own well being for others. Admirable qualities although some may deem as dumb choices at times.   He brought the wildlings beyond the wall for their safety and to unite with the rest of the realm to defeat the Night King so I don’t see his time at The Wall as a failure.   His desire to leave and fight for Robb, stay with Ygritte, and whether or not to kill Dany were a series of tests where he was forced to make hard moral choices.  The choices he ultimately made were true to his basic character.  Others before himself.   I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about how we view Jon and his ending.  I have really said all I care to say for now but will certainly be reading the last two books to see if I feel differently.


  13. 2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

    But it would be a big difference. If he did abandon his sentence, he's a turncloak and would not be welcomed back at the watch. If he was just 'ranging' then he is stuck as a member of the NW, making his journey pointless, as he ended up where he started.

    The fact that HBO is ambiguous even in its summaries says a lot about how little thought was given about concluding the show in a sensible manner.

    His journey was not pointless.  Jon’s character has always been about servanthood.  He served the realm well and help save them from ice and fire.  As Bran said.....he was where he was suppose to be.   


  14. 1 hour ago, Kaapstad said:

    It’s weird but Jon seems to be the only character without any purpose for him at the end. We can come up with headcanons but nothing concrete was established on the show like for the other characters. All we see is him wearing the NW uniform and going with the wildlings. That’s literally it. Zero concrete info on his life objectives from hereon in. He is just 22-23 years old. What’s he going to do for the rest of his life?

    That is only true if one has no respect or love for the Night Watch or wildlings or that exploring the far North is not as adventuresome as Ayra’s sea adventures. Jon was raised to believe it was honorable to serve in the NW and Ned told him Starks had manned the Wall for thousands of years.  Makes me think of the saying that says one man’s trash is another man’s treasure.  Additionally....Jon has already served his purpose narratively and that was helping to save the world from destruction by ice and fire.   But life is full of possibilities (as Tyrion once said) and the realm could call upon him again for his service in the future. Meanwhile....let him roam free, breathe the air, marvel at nature, and enjoy companionship of his friends.


  15. I have never thought Tyrion was the one who convinced Jon to kill Dany anyway......it was Daenerys and all that she was saying when he mentioned the burned children, the executing of soldiers by Grey Worm, and that grandiose plan of hers conquering the world and giving folks no choice in the matter cause she knew best. No remorse over the loss of innocents or forgiveness/mercy for anyone.  That was the deciding factor for Jon to kill her.  He knew then she was incapable of changing and so he ended her madness.


  16. 3 hours ago, Rikard said:

    One of several arguments Tyrion made in his increasingly desperate attempt to turn Jon. This one failed (You were far from the battle, how could you judge?), as did the one about unending, universal war (meh), and the penultimate one, the threat to Jon himself (“Who is more dangerous than the rightful heir to the Iron Throne?” at about minute 24, 8/6). Loyal Jon replied that he would accept the Queen’s judgement. Tyrion says that he also loves Daenerys, though not as “successfully” as Jon, said with a bit of a leer. But duty must kill love. This doesn’t work either. Only when Tyrion plays his last card, the improbable threat to his cousins, Arya and Sansa, is Jon finally swayed.  


  17. 1 hour ago, Kaapstad said:

    They just created a wedge in the symbolism by showing 4 new NW recruits and Jon wearing the cloak. Last time he left, he gave away the uniform on screen. He was even shown changing out of Stark clothes so the unambigious way to end it would have been to have him leave with the wildlings wearing Stark attire or wildlings gear. I dunno why they decided to create an ending with bits and pieces which contradict each other

    I don’t think we are suppose to worry about whether he truly abandoned the NW or not.  The point is that he is getting to range or roam in the North where he truly belongs and amongst people who accept and respect him. Afterall.....if a raven was sent saying they needed Jon back at the wall then he would come in a wink of an eye.   That is the kind of person Jon is. 


  18. 42 minutes ago, Kaapstad said:

    The scene is simple enough not to immediately remember while watching the final episode,but it bears repeating once you’ve seen Jon riding into the forest among the wildlings — where he always belonged."

    Also.....he is no longer leading them but amongst them. This began after the gate dropped.


  19. If you scan the Internet you will find numerous interpretations.  One interpretation I read was that the closing of the gate signified the NW was letting him go and that is why he turned back to look at it  It signified the closing of that chapter of his life which had brought him so much pain and sacrifice and now they were setting him free. A new beginning.  IMO everyone is free to believe whatever they want.  No right or wrong about it.

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