NymeriaWarriorQueen

Today I read some enlightening essays on Untangling the Meerenese Knot.   The 2nd essay argues that the purpose of Dany’s stay in Meereen was to set up a series of tests that will test her values.  One of the most interesting things I found in the 3rd essay was the essayist referring to an early draft of Dany for ADWD which reportedly GRRM read at conventions in the early 2000’s. In fact....it was paraphrased here on the forums.    It appears that Dany is already struggling with her self identity and that she fears herself (going mad like her father or full blown Fire & Blood).  The writing for the chapter was later changed so that the language wasn’t as explicit.  Here are the quotes for comparison:

My fears were burned away the day I came forth from the fire. Only one thing frightens me now.” “And what is it that you fear, sweet queen? “I am only a foolish young girl.” Dany rose on her toes and kissed his cheek. “But not so foolish as to tell you that.” (ADWD DANY III)

She looks at Ser Barristan and tells him that she told Xaro that she feared only one thing, though she would not tell the merchant what. Ser Barristan guesses that she only fears her dragons. “Myself,” Dany tells him. (PARAPHRASED EARLIER DRAFT OF ADWD DANY III)s

Here is the link to the essay which I highly recommend. https://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/02/untangling-the-meereenese-knot-part-iii-danys-struggle-with-herself/

Drogon was one smart dragon.  He recognized that the thing that killed his mother was the same sort of thing that composed the Iron Throne.....both literally and figuratively.

Jon Snow’s ending was somewhat foreshadowed in Episode 4 when he was saying goodbye to Tormund. He asked Tormund to take Ghost because that was where he belonged and would be happier there. Tormund told Jon he would be happier there too.  Jon then says that he wished he was going with them. Tormund tells Jon he has the North in him.  The Real North. Quite honestly this is exactly where I felt he would ultimately end up.  He is now King Beyond the Wall leading the freefolk home.

6 minutes ago, Skills said:

I definitely think Jon was joining the wildlings with the way the gate came down and the look he gave it seemed like a final goodbye to Westeros. 

That is the way I interpreted the scene too.  

I thought it was a good episode.  The scene with Jon and Daenerys was particularly good.  Can’t help but wonder where Drogon took Daenerys.  Also.....did Bran plan or know this all along?  I was happy to see Jon reunited with Ghost and going north with the wildlings.  It seems odd that Bronn would be Master of Coin.

1 minute ago, greel said:

It seems likely the next episode will all be taken by the fight for KL.  That leaves a single episode where they can make some use of Bran.  Did they put all the effort in taking him beyond the wall just to sort out Jon's parentage?  He has been nothing but LUMP this season.

I am probably wrong but I got the sense that Bran set this whole conflict between Dany and Jon in motion for some reason that he can only see via the weirwood network.   

8 minutes ago, Pandean said:

So what do you guys think the episode title is implying? The Last of the Starks....

The last we will see them all together?

3 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

He isn't a turncoat. He's trying to cushion Brienne by presenting her with a white lie that he hopes will spare her the worst of the anguish sure to come.

I considered that possibility too but he is probably thinking that Cersei is the mother of his child plus he must be concerned about Tyrion too.  

I got the feeling after tonight that Jon will head North after all is said and done.   That is where he would prefer to be and Tormund knows it too.   

1 minute ago, Astromech said:

I do appreciate how long Sansa was able to keep Jon's secret, though, telling the first person she ran into  

Yeah.....the bitch!

Heartbreaking and suspenseful.  Best episode of this season so far.    I cried when Rheagal was shot down, Jamie left Brienne, and for Grey Worm when Missandei was executed.   Really HATE Cersei and Euron.   Completely understand why Daenerys go mad with vengeance.  Sansa broke her promise which pissed me off.

Wow!   I thought it was a great episode but absolutely heartbreaking.  Not sure if I can rewatch.  Emotionally draining.

i now think it is highly possible The Others may win and annihilate everyone else. We have a bunch of flawed characters who are overly ambitious and power driven. The Night Watch proved last night that their pride and long time hatred of the Wildlings have blinded them to the greater threat to the planet.

Isn't this sorta GRRM's point? Endless war and power hungry leaders/politicians out for their own glory rather than seeing the bigger picture and how they are ultimately bringing about the demise of their own planet?

Let's not forget that the Pink Letter stipulated that Mance Raydar, an oathbreaker, was alive and set free south of the Wall, thanks to Jon as well. the Night's Watch was given no context for that.

You are absolutely right. I should have included that. There was just a momentum in the book that led up to the stabbing of Jon Snow, We never got that onscreen.

I have had time to "sleep" on it and if I could I would give the show a rating of 0 simply because of how D & D royally screwed up theFTW scene. It just didn't make sense.

At least in th books we knew they were short on food supplies because of having to feed Stannis' men and the Wildlings. This was before Jon even decided to go to Hardhome or Stannis left to get support from the mountain clans. They weren't sure they would survive. It made FTW seem more plausible because Jon was leaving them to even get more Wildlings on a possibly doomed mission to Hardhome . More mouths to feed and shelter if he succeeded. Next he got the threatening letter from Ramsay which made sense to many in the NW that he was betraying his vows and REALLY getting involved in the politics of the realm. The final straw that broke the camel's back was Wun Wun attacking and ripping apart Ser Patrek.

The way D & D portrayed him as a traitor just didn't work, In fact....Jon proved by going to Hardhome what a threat the White Walkers were to the realm and that both Wildlings and the Night Watch....well hell....EVERYBODY else in Westeros should be forgetting their political struggles and power grabbing and work together for the survival of them all. The way these writers did it made the Night Watch a bunch of dim witted Idiots whose comprehensive brains had an inability to comprehend this even after they had seen wights and White Walkers before. Plus don't they realize Tormund and the Wildlings will probably KILL THEM for doing that to Jon? So utterly STUPID. This scene alone made the finale one big flop!

Yeah...Sansa is gonna hook up with the guy who basically betrayed her brother and caused their downfall.

Strange bedfellows I know.....but I forgave Theon after tonight. He has suffered enough and paid with many body parts. Ready to give the guy a second chance.

Speaking of ROME.....why did it get cancelled? I watched the series last year ( in preparation for a trip to Italy) and was disappointed the series didn't continue.

I sometimes wish that the show was made by a really bad production team. Think Xena or Vikings or Black Sails. Just so the show haters here could get a taste of how awful it could actually be. And then they might appreciate the acting and writing, which is by and large *very* good for television (except Dorne) and also the rich costume and art and set design, which is leagues beyond anything ever attempted.

It makes me sad that so many people on here can't enjoy a wonderful show just because it isn't exactly like the books.

There likely wont' be a more well-crafted fantasy series on television, at least in our lifetimes. So enjoy it, or don't, but I feel sorry that you're missing out because of your stubbornness.

They will keep watching......just because it is an adaptation of the book. It still doesn't mean we can't complain and rant about aspects of the show we think could have been done better based on our knowledge of the book material. IMO....reading a book is much more gratifying than something on TV or in a movie. Different strokes for different folks.....I guess. I will admit it is one of the best TV series ever produced.....but I still think the books are better.

My new root for couple is Theon and Sansa. I really really really hope they survive their fall. I really felt their connection before they made the leap....

I haven't read the books all the way through, but as far the show goes, I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck Melisandre will ressurect Jon in the same fashion as the Brothers Without Banners dude. The newly ressurected Jon will not be bound by the NIght's Watch vow (unless he chooses to uphold it). And the Watch members that did Cesaer poor Jon will have an "oh crap oh crap he was right" moment when the battle with the Whitewalkers hits Castle Black.

Yes....it has to be the ONLY reason Melisandre would have moved with the speed of Light back to the Wall?

So is everyone done watching this terrible show now? This seals the deal, right?

ROFL.....we are for now! Thank God. I'm looking forward more to the next book being published than Season 6 though. Am I bad for confessing that?

I was talking to Dan Weiss and he said Jon is really dead. But George R.R. Martin left open the possibility the character might not be dead in the books. And then that cast salary contract story came out last year and it had your name among those receiving raises for season six and an option on a seventh. So let me ask you: Is Jon really dead?This is my understanding of it. I had a sit-down with Dan and David, we did the Tony Soprano walk [letting an actor know theyre being whacked]. And they said, Look, youre gone, its done. And as far as the salary thing goes, that angered me when that story came out. I dont know where it came from, but it was inaccurate in many ways. Its going to put questions into your head and into fans heads that things are not what they are. Quite honestly, I have never been told the future of things in this show, but this is the one time I have. They sat me down and said, This is how it is. If anything in the future is not like that, then I dont know about it its only in David and Dan and Georges heads. But Ive been told Im dead. Im dead. Im not coming back next season. So thats all I can tell you, really.

They wouldn't be lying....because. Jon Snow (as we have known him) is dead. I believe he will be resurrected as Azor Ahai ( or TPTWP). The unknown is whether Kit will be playing him or not. New actor for the part?

Maybe we are SUPPOSED to get so fed up with whole lot of them and rooting for The Others by the end of the book and/or TV series.

It doesn't make an iota of sense for The Watch to kill Jon Snow after he won a major battle against The Others. Additionally......how do they think they are going to handle The Wildlings, Wun Wun, Tormund, Davos, and Melisandre who are probably now gonna be so pissed that they totally annilate them all?

GRRM really needs to get TWOW written soon....before we all go insane.

I am upset that Jon Snow's wound wasn't smoking and his last word was Olly instead of Ghost. The only hint we got for a possible "resurrection" is that Melisandre is back at the wall.

Glad that Stannis got what he deserved as well as Meryn Trant. Also I was rooting for Theon to do something to Myranda and stood up and cheered when he toppled her off the wall, I hope Sansa and him survive their jump to freedom.

Cersei's WOS was well done and close to how I envisioned it from the book.

I'm still upset Ser Barristan was killed off and not sure about Tyrion and Varys taking control of Meereen.

Dorne was the big LOSER of the season.