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Ser Lepus

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Posts posted by Ser Lepus


  1. On 6/4/2019 at 4:06 AM, Lord_Ravenstone said:

    Actually, you’re wrong here. 

    Sansa would pass the Stark name off to her sons. It’s already happened in the past with previous Starks and it happened with the Lannisters too. Bael Bard had a bastard with the Last Stark’s daughter who he legitimized as a Stark to inherit for him.

    All the current Starks and Lannisters are descended from Brandon the Builder and Lann the Clever via the female line although I could always see Sansa marrying a Karstark thereby keeping her line pure wolf.

    The part about the Lannister is true: They are descendants of Ser Joffrey Lydden, who married a Lannister heiress...

    But the story of Bael the Bard is nothing but a wildling folktale.


  2. Uncle-niece marriages happen now and then. Damphair wanted Victarion to marry Asha and rule together, but he never got the chance to tell them (it is in the Wind of Winter leaked chapter), and Arnolf Karstark wanted to force his niece Alys Karstark into a marriage in order to get her castle and lands.

    On the other hand, people tend to think about it as something possible, but not really right... Alys ran from the marriage and Jon Snow helped her avoid it; Victarion thought about it, but he felt creeped out by his own lust, and avoided the subject; the Faith opposed Maegar marrying his own niece Rhaena.... etc.

    Arianne sorta wanted to bang her uncle Oberyn, but she never did it, despite Oberyn having sex with anything that moves and Arianne having several lovers...

    So in short, it is possible, but too close for comfort... kinda like marrying a first cousin in most of today's Europe: Technically legal, but sorta weird and off-putting...


  3. On 5/29/2019 at 8:18 PM, Ser Dips A lot said:

    Just how exactly is the effectiveness of the longbow vastly exaggerated? I mean these eye-catching victories you speak of surely aren’t exxagerating the effectiveness of the longbow when we see them at Poiters, Crécy, and Agincourt,  to name a few. The use of the bow virtually eliminated the effectiveness of heavy cavalry and infantry tactics and brought an end to the dominance of the armored knight as we know it. Commoners found a way to kill the better trained and equipped highborns. 

    Actually, plate armor didn't reach its peak until after all those battles. The Battle of Agincourt  took place in 1415, while the plate armor was perfected at the end of the XV or the beginning of the XVI centuries.

    French strategy still relied heavily in their heavy armoured cavalry at the Battle of Pavia, in 1525.. 


  4. 7 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

    Sure. But saying that the fact that they could raise 30k men in Aegon’s time and only 18k men today is a reflection of the comparative populations of the two periods is clearly wrong.

    Fire and Blood in fact says the population north of Dorne doubled during Jahaerys’s reign. Even if the North was at the lower end of the average growth rate and only increased by 50%, that still means they have 50% more men available today than Torrhen had when he raised 30k men.

    The North was an independent kingdom before Aegon, and it had been for thousands of years. They probably had to fight lots of wars, so their society was better adapted to raising troops.

    After 300 years of relative peace, the social mechanisms geared towards providing a fighting force had gone rusty... lords in the easter coast or in the interior or the country not close to the Wall probably didn't bother to keep as many troops as they could afford, because the ironborn and the wildlings weren't an immediate threat, and the chances of being called to war weren't that big...


  5. 3 hours ago, Vashon said:

    Ice could easily be shipped as far as King's Landing in larger ship hulls, especially in bulk.

    Ah, but there is ice and snow in KL during winter... On the other hand, there isn't much ice or snow in most of the North during summer, at least not along the coasts... remember, they grow crops even beyond the Wall (the Wall stands without melting because it's magical).


  6. About the scarcity of longbow units, it may be due to westerosi martial culture: Longbows are popular in the Dornish Marches, where they had to protect themselves against Dornish raiders until around 110 years before the beginning of the novels, but in the rest of Westeros keeping the monopoly of warfare in the hands of nobility was considered a priority, so they didn't encourage peasants to train in the use of a cheap, efficient weapon able to counter knightly cavalry...

    About swords, while they are nearly useless against plate armor, most troops seem to use chainmail or worse. Even most knights use hauberks combined with vambraces and helms, full plate being affordable only to upper nobility... Arming swords, longswords and spears can punch through gambesons and chainmail (not easy, but hey...), and enough slashes can ruin a gambeson; and a sword is more effective than a mace or axe at going around a shield and reaching the guy behind...

    Members of aristocracy, however, should use maces, warhammers, horseman's picks, pollaxes... etc., when fighting each other in full plate...

     


  7. On 5/24/2019 at 2:06 AM, Vashon said:

    Perhaps they mine ice and sell it. And perhaps the inhabited lands north of the wall were once considered part of the same region, a land that the Kings of Winter would have fought over and dealt with. Other than that, they probably just repeatedly beat the Iron Born off the land whenever they decided to reav instead of trade and by the way? There is little point to looting shiny things if you don't use those shiny things for purchase. 

    And the North has lumber and plentiful shores, so everywhere on the shores would engage in fishing and whaling, and everywhere with a river would have that available at least part time. So the Northern economy would involve fur trapping, fishing, a bit of shepherding, lumber farming, and ice farming. And trading with the Wildlings for rarer materials, such as mammoth bones and whatnot.

     

    Forget about ice mining; unless the teleporting ships are made canon, the ice and snow would melt long before reaching the hot regions where there is demand for it...

    Realistically speaking, most of the population in the North should live by the coasts and survive on fishing and whaling during winters, but it doesn't seem to be the case...

    Lumber would be a source of income to buy imported food, but you need ports and ships in order to export both the wood or wooden items to regions that demand them... Same for fur trade...

    Shepherding... I dunno... storing enough fodder to keep the sheep alive during the long winters would be hard... they would have to kill many sheep during autumn...

    So we go to point one: The inland should be mostly empty, almost all the population being concentrated by the coast...


  8. On 5/26/2019 at 12:28 PM, Ran said:

    To answer my own question, apparently K.J. Parker's Colours in the Steel features "fencers-at-law" who are essentially duellists who defend or prosecute cases with swords rather than with actual law. Doesn't quite count. Otherwise, there's an amazing lack of evidence of anyone having written a fantasy legal thriller (not too surprised) or, seemingly, a medieval legal thriller. Fantasy/medieval detectives are a thing, at least.

    Although, funnily enough... here's George after his podcast with the law professor saying that that (and some of the professors other works) made him realize he had a lot to think about, and jokingly suggesting he might write a legal thriller set in the Seven Kingdoms once the series is done. I think George realized that there should be an extensive apparatus, but for the purposes of ASoIaF he's not going to strain himself. Maybe a future Dunk & Egg novella will feature them stumbling into the middle of a shire court.

    Actually, knights for hire whose job was to act as champions in judicial duels were a thing at least in Spain, so a well-written medieval legal thriller could be quite action-filled...


  9. Yes, but we know nothing about these guilds. They seem to have zero social, political and economic impact on society, judging by how little the characters think about them or interact with them.. 

    We know nothing about the education of Septons and Septas, save that some priests like Meribald are illiterate, while others like Barth became Septons in order to get some education...

    If Anguy had bought land... what would be his legal and social status? There isn't any free peasant or commoner landholder in the books...

    Could Anguy adquire true ownership of the land, or just a lease? Are there yeomen in Westeros, or are all peasants tenants leasing a lord's land?

    Knights receive land as payment for military service...Can landed knights sell a piece of their land? If a knight sells his land to another knight, does it implies a transference of feudal duties? What happens if a rich merchant buys land from a knight, does he adquire feudal duties?  (like, does he has to pay and equip men-at-arms to fulfill the military obligations of the previous owner...), or he would just have to pay taxes (like any other peasant) to that lord...?

    If a knight buys land from a lord... what would be his legal status? The lord is still the lord of the land, with rights of pit and gallows... does the knight become his bannerman, with the duty to provide military assistance? Or would the lord just demand that the knight pay taxes like a commoner landholder?

    If there are free peasants, what rights do they have? If a peasant buys land from a lord... could that lord or his heir just take it back? The lord is both the local ruler and judge... who is going to stop him? Could the peasant call for a higher authority?

    Can a landholder or a village buy their freedom from a lord? And if they do... who has the responsability of administering justice to them now? The liege of their previous lord? The Lord Paramount? The king?

    If a rich merchant were to buy a large piece of land from a great lord or from his landed knight vassals... what would be his legal and social status? 

     


  10. A long time ago, I argued that at least the Reach, Arbor, Dorne and the southern Free Cities could realistically survive through winter by switching to winter grains, beets, sugar beets, radishes, carrots, lettuces, spinaches, legumes, onions...etc., and breeding goats, sheep and cattle, since these regions should experience little in the way of frost and snow...

    However, I have realized something: Most of the fruits that are mentioned couldn't grow at all... peaches, plums, apricots, apples and pears need at least a few cold weeks before some warm months in order to produce fruit...

    Grapes, pomegranates, lemons and oranges, on the other hand, could grow fine during summer (but oranges would be green-colored... it is the cold of autumn what makes oranges go orange...).

    Do you know if GRRM has ever offered an explanation to the growth of fruits despite the lack of seasons?


  11. On 5/23/2019 at 6:54 PM, sleath56 said:

    Unfortunately, you're in the wrong series if you want to read about fictional jurisprudence. GRRM may say his criticism of Tolkien is that he didn't go over Aragorn's tax policy, but then he himself goes and spends several pages in Fire & Blood on the semantics whether if a debauched woman had sex with Jaehaerys whilst skimming over the details of his code of law.

    It isn't just law. We know nothing about westerosi guilds (do they even exist at all?), merchant families (we know they exist, but little else...), land ownership (can commoners own land, or just lease it?), priestly training (how does the Faith train its priesthood? are there religious schools? Septon Barth had a good education... was he self-taught?)...etc.

    Westeros is closer to the society in the fictional Britain of King Arthur than to the real medieval society...


  12. On 5/14/2019 at 10:08 PM, Angel Eyes said:

    So Varys is saying that Jon would be a better ruler than Daenerys because he doesn't want the throne. Isn't there a problem with that since Robert Baratheon didn't want the throne and because he didn't want it he proceeded to run himself (and the country) into the ground? How is Jon any better than Robert for that? 

    Robert wanted to be king... he just didn't want the work and responsabilities that came with it...

    If he really didn't want to be king he could have pushed the job on Jon Arryn or Ned Stark; they wanted him to be king, but, what were they going to do? Chain him to the throne? And once it was clear Robert didn't want it, honor and duty would have forced them to take responsability...

    But anyways, I think it is better if the king wants to be king... That is a very demanding job with a lot of responsabilities and public exposure, and you could easily become depressed, angry and demotivated if it is forced on you against your will...


  13. 43 minutes ago, RYShh said:

    Andals conquered all other kingdoms except for the North, so I don't see how the majority of the North wasn't first men,

    The most important difference is that the North still kept faith in the old gods while the other kingdoms started to believe in the new; faith of the seven.

    As Greatjon says;

    The World of Ice and Fire offers a lot of information about the origins of the noble families of Westeros: About half of them are of First Men origin... Blackwoods, Hightowers, Lannisters, Cranes, Yronwoods, Dayne... etc.

    As for the Andal conquerors, almost all of them took FM wives. The Florents and Tyrells among others were born from the marriage between an Andal noble and a Gardener (FM) wife...

    As for the FM commoners, they weren't killed or expelled, they were forced to convert to the Seven, while the Andal conquerors became nobility.

    Yes, the northeners kept the old religion, but in never looked like a problem... there are Seven worshippers in the North (Manderly, Jeor and Jorah Mormont...) and Old Gods worshippers in the South (the Blackwoods).


  14. On 5/22/2019 at 12:16 AM, Anthony Pirtle said:

    I have little doubt that, at least where the Stark kids are concerned, their fates were determined by the outline GRRM gave them.

    In the books there are plotlines that could end with Sansa ruling the Vale and Rickon ruling the North... add the support of Asha and Theon, of Edmure and of a legitimized Edric Storm (who owes his life to Davos) as lord of Storm's End, and Bran would gather enough support to claim the throne if Jon names him heir...

    I suspect D&D made Sansa queen of the North because they couldn't use the original plot, so they went for the closest thing they could achieve...


  15. 4 minutes ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

    I am part of the 'First Men interbred with COTF' faction. At least the most senior of them did. That is how magic entered the First Men bloodline and it will mirror whatever we find out Valyria did with dragon blood. There are stories in the supplementary material that suggest weird interbreeding across the known world. 

    Yep, but there are (First Men) families with skinchanging powers out of the North; the Farwynds, the Cranes and the Blackwoods, for example... so it seems the blood of the CotF was passed down in the south too.

    As for seer powers, families in the south have them too... the Tolands, for example...

    5 minutes ago, RYShh said:

    Yeah, but I think it's safe to say that the majority of the North is First men while the majority of the rest of the 6 kingdoms is Andals.

    Not really... like half of the southern noble families are of First Men origin, and the commoners everywhere have more FM than Andal blood...

    And the Starks themselves intermarried with Andal noble houses... the Tullies, for example...

    The Starks' FM blood is thinner than their own commoners'


  16. Even if they don't remain married/remarry, Tyrion has a long track of making poor decisions due to emotional reasons... Sansa can expect him to favor her the same way Tyrion favored his siblings, always making plans that prioritized the well-being of Jamie and Cersei, even if these plans were less effective because of that...


  17. 3 hours ago, AryaNymeriaVisenya said:

    The Arryns and Martells are Andal houses, the later mixed with Rhoynar since Nymeria. Not as ancient as the houses of the First Men. The Martells are still feuding with the First Men Yronwoods and House Royce seems to be sitting pretty in the Vale. Yohn has Robin on a leash.

    The point is, the blood of the First Men isn't that special, lots of people have it. 

    As for the Andal houses, the Arryns are 6000 years old... at that point, do a few thousands years more make a difference... specially, when the lack of written records make impossible to know how old each house really is...


  18. 56 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

    I'm not a Sansa fan, but what they did to her character was just insane.  If she has to turn into a manipulative schemer, at least she needed to keep the veneer of politeness that was always Sansa's strength and shield.  Having her tell her mother's brother whose been a cell for years to STFU instead of saying something diplomatic was emblematic of the show's inability to see a woman in power who doesn't act like a rude jerk.  Sansa has been incredibly rude to almost everyone since she got to Winterfell, rude when politeness would have been a much better strategy.  Arya, sure, it's totally in character for her to threaten to slit someone's throat in a meeting, that's who she has always been.  They did the same thing with Brienne, making her super rude to Pod for no reason except they can't seem to write strong women who aren't bitches.  Sad.

    Yep. Sansa isn't a female Littlefinger, she's a younger Cersei, getting her power thanks to her lineage and good looks rather than cunning and good planning, and antagonizing people that should be her allies...


  19. 6 hours ago, Flightless bird said:

    Brans arc is tied into the werewoods, to see the past he has to look through the werewood net... how do you suppose this would work for him and his beliefs in the south where there is no werewood trees.  

    He could move the capital to the Eye of the Gods after Dany burns KL...

    Heh... the whole kingdom will freak out if Bran moves to Harrenhal...


  20. We know that Lord Manderly is conspiring to crown Rickon King of the North...

    We also know that Littlefinger plans to have Sansa marry Harry the Heir, kill Sweetrobin and use Sansa as puppet queen of the Vale, the North and maybe the Riverlands too, if he manages to kill Edmure and his baby...

    But D&D removed those plotlines from the show...

    My theory is, at some point we will have Sansa as lady of the Vale (either as wife to Harry or as his widow and mother of his child), Rickon as lord of Winterfell, and Edmure back as lord of the Riverlands, and they will support Jon's claim either as King of the North (as a legitimized Stark) or as King of the Seven Kingdoms (as a Targaryen), mostly because he is the one leading the war against the Others...

    Dany and Jon, during the period they are working together, could legitimize Edric Storm as a Baratheon and make him lord of the Stormlands, and they could help Tyrion claim Casterly Rock... Asha Greyjoy could use Theon as puppet king of the Iron Islands...

    If we assume that the ending of the show and of the novels are somewhat similar, and that Dany ends dead and Jon exiled (because of honor, to fulfill his oaths as a menber of the Night Watch...) Jon could nominate Bran as his heir... Sansa, Rickon, Theon and Edmure would support him, and Tyrion and Edric, who would be working with Dany and the Starks before Dany was shanked, would be persuaded to do it too...

    With Jon as king naming Bran his heir, and the backing of so many great lords, it would make sense for Bran to be crowned...

    But D&D cut so many plotlines and characters away that it was no longer possible to do it that way, and they had to half-ass the TV series ending we know...


  21. 3 hours ago, El Guapo said:

    Are people really arguing whether or not Sansa had any legal authority to tell Edmure to sit down?  Because from what I saw Edmure was making an ass of himself and wasting everyone's time and only Sansa had the balls to tell him to shut up and sit down.

    No. We are arguing about Sansa being queen of just the North (as I claim), or also queen of the Riverlands and maybe the Vale too (as some people believe...).

    But it's true that Sansa could have used of a bit of diplomacy when she spoke to Edmure... for somebody who is supposed to have learned to play the game, she has a habit of attacking, antagonizing and undermining in public her allies and relatives, people whose help she may need in the future...

    It's the same as when she felt the need to remark that Bran's dick won't get up while he was being chosen king, bitched about how much Dany's troops ate (troops that came to help defend Winterfell), or antagonized Jon, her king, during councils.

    She has the subtley and cunning of a sledgehammer...


  22. On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    ...Do you even know the rules of succession?...

    ...I'm sorry but you really don't know how it works, do you?...

    ...Since you apparently didn't pay attention...

    I have noticed that you seem unable to support your arguments without resorting to personal attacks. That never works, so you should stop doing it. You will never win an argument by repeatedly insisting that you know far more than the rest...

    By the way, I was discussing the westerosi laws of succession in this forum seven years before you first registered here...

     

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    Jon, even if legitimate, doesn't come before Sansa. Do you even know the rules of succession? The male line comes before the female line. Jon only gets Winterfell if all of Ned's children are dead. Look it up. Sansa is aware of those rules, hence the first thing she tells Bran is that he is Lord of Winterfell. He abdicated so Sansa was next in line.

    Except nobody knows that Jon isn't Ned's son. Not even Sansa knew until three episodes ago. Not even Jon knew until shortly before the battle against the Night King in Winterfell... And Edmure certainly doesn't know even now...

    And I am sure you know that... It was treated as kind of a big deal, you know...

    As far as everybody knew, Jon was both Ned's and Robb's heir, both to Winterfell and to the crown of the KotN.

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    Plenty of people cared in S6. Neither Sansa nor Jon could get the Northern houses to join them because the Boltons in the show were actually good liege lords. They drove the Ironborn out of the North and helped them get back their castles and lands. So why wouldn't they see Roose and Ramsey as the true Lord?

    And these people who liked the Boltons so much care that Sansa is Ramsay's widow, but not that she killed him? And it's not as if she has been secretive about it, she has been saying it out loud in a hall full of people...

    As you said yourself, they didn't want to follow Sansa...

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    I'm sorry but you really don't know how it works, do you? King Robb died, his reign ended with him and he had no successors. In the books there is a will that makes Jon Robb's heir, so if Jon becomes King then Edmure is bound to Jon. The will is not in the show, Robb had no heirs in the show. When the North voted for Jon to be King, that started a new line of succession and Jon was only made King by the North. Edmure was in prison so no way for him to swear fealty to the new King.

    These people chose as king the man they believed to be Robb's brother. Nobody knew that he wasn't Ned's son at that point, and they still don't know. 

    The reason they chose Jon as KotN is because, to their eyes, he was Robb's heir.

    And yeah, Edmure can choose to ignore Jon, the same way people in the council ignored Gendry's claim (as a legitimized bastard of king Robert), the same way they ignored Dany's claim for years, the same way Edmure, Robb, Renly, Mace Tyrell and the Valelords ignored Joffrey's claim even before knowing he was a bastard...

    But it would make no sense for Edmure to ignore Jon's claim and to follow Sansa instead, when Sansa herself as acknowledged Jon as the KotN... Why would he do that? In what way would that benefit either Edmure or the Riverlands? And if Edmure chose to keep being loyal to the KotN out of honor and loyalty... why would he reject Jon?

    And don't say "family"; Sansa treats him like shit... why would he care that she is family?

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    Edmure was in prison so no way for him to swear fealty to the new King.

    No way for him to swear fealty to Sansa, either... if he doesn't consider Jon his king, why would he consider Sansa his liege...?

    You can't have it both ways: Either his bond of fealty went extinct when Robb died, or it didn't. If his fealty to the Starks went extinct when Robb died, then he isn't a vassal to Sansa either.

    And don't say "Jon isn't Robb's true brother..." Edmure doesn't know that. As far as he knows, Jon is Robb's brother, and his heir.

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    He is no longer KitN (bend the knee to Dany)

    If Edmure thinks so, he can consider his bond of fealty extinct, but, why would he consider himself a vassal to Sansa?

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    Bran is not his heir because Bran is neither Jon's child nor did Jon make a will that proclaimed Bran his heir.

    As far as everybody knows, Bran is Jon's brother. Siblings are heirs when there isn't a child (check GRRM's Q&A) and as you said yourself, brothers go before sisters in the succession line everywhere save in Dorne. Bran goes before Sansa.

    And again don't say "Bran isn't Jon's true brother..." nobody knows that..

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    It wasn't just the Unsullied. Since you apparently didn't pay attention, Yara wanted his head too.

    Yeah, Yara who so bravely confronted the Starks during the council... I am sure she would gladly die to ensure that Jon receives his punishment... :rolleyes:

    On 5/23/2019 at 3:45 PM, Mystical said:

    So probably did the Prince of Dorne and anyone else that had sworn themselves to Dany. The Unsullied were only a part of the problem.

    You mean, that prince of Dorne we know nothing about? The guy who didn't say a word against Jon during the council...?

    And anyways, I am sure that, after he saw the ruins of KL, he probably felt grateful Daenerys was dead...

     


  23. I have realized that in the books BIIIIIIIIIG SPOOOOOOOOOOILEEEEEEER!!!!

    Quote


     

     

     

     

    It is likely that Sansa will rule the Vale and Rickon the North, but D&D have removed so many plotlines that they had to settle for Rickon dying and Sansa ruling the North...

     

     


  24. 14 hours ago, Syl of Syl said:

    I don't think it's a plot hole to have no western harbor. In fact, I think it is perfectly logical, the reasons being two-fold - the Ironborn presence on the west coast and the fact that there are no known lands to the Sunset Sea side other than Westeros itself.

    Say for example that there was a port along the Saltspear or Blazewater Bay, the closest port is Lannisport and then Oldtown. You have to pass the Iron Islands to get to either place. Likewise, ships coming from Lannisport have to pass the Iron Islands to get North. To what purpose tho? If I'm a trader, the only reason I'd go as far as Lannisport is because of the Westerlands great wealth of gold and other metals. If I want the timber and furs that the North provides, I'll catch them when I swing back around the Narrow Sea.

    Any port on the west coast isn't going to be that far from White Harbor, so the land trade would continue to go to White Harbor which has easier access to trade with Braavos, Gulltown, King's Landing and Pentos and the rest of  the Narrow Sea.

     

    A port in the west coast allows access to the Reach's crops. Also, fish.

    As for having more than one port in each coast... sending food (fish and imported food) overlad over hundreds of miles is just too expensive, even more if you take into account northen geography and lack or roads. 

    3 hours ago, hnv said:

    Easily, reduce the taxation on their products = reduce famine and overall increase product (laffer curve).

     

    a western harbour is going to be a white elephant, beyond the ironmen threat there's simply no reason to build a harbour so far of any trade route. 

    Even with reduced taxed the peasants would probably be poorer and eat less than their southern counterparts...

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