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Everything posted by protar

  1. So as a battle this was a great battle sequence (two great battle sequences actually!) It was a lot better directed than Hardhome imo, this had a nice balance of smoother combat scenes like the one shot at the beginning of the battle, and more chaotic fighting. The scene with Jon nearly being trampled to death captured the claustrophobia of what that would be like brilliantly. The carnage didn't seem gratuitous to me as it often does in the show - it was a realistic look at just how horrific such a battle would be. The piles of bodies made for a haunting image. Seeing Ramsay get his comeuppance was very cathartic. But as a piece in the narrative this was not a great episode. The progression of the battle was cliche - they fight, they're losing, then the cavalry arrives and they win, with a one on one confrontation between the hero and the villain as a coda. We even get a little rip off of the black gates of mordor. It feels like an unearned battle as well. If Sansa had just told Jon that LF was coming, they could have waited just a little while and the battle would have been won with minimal losses. It's a huge plot hole. I hate hate hate plots which hinge on miscommunication where there is no reason for characters to not communicate. I saw someone arguing in another forum that Sansa didn't want to risk Jon turning down LF's help...but Jon is desperate enough to accept almost anyone's help. And does he even know about LF? We also hadn't seen Ramsay for a few episodes which I think lessened the impact - there wasn't the build up to the battle that we had for the Wall and the Blackwater. Plus there was no reason given for why they had to attack now. So as a contextless battle it's fun to watch (and even then cliche) but in the greater scope this is nothing special.
  2. Ian McShane was a fun cameo - shame he was only in it for one episode. Guess he just wanted to be part of the show. Loved Lyanna Mormont. That kid has sass. There's still precious little actual plot development though. I feel like each episode is merely a promise of what is going to happen next. But each episode pushes it off further and further. Jon and Sansa are still trying to get Northern Lords to support them, Cersei and the Tyrells are still worrying about the High Sparrow, other plot lines are absent. The only major progression here is Arya being stabbed and of course the Hound's return.
  3. I gave it a 5 just because it was exciting to watch at the end and season 6 hasn't been quite so bad as Season 5. But still a lot that didn't make sense. The Kingsmoot made very little sense. Why can Euron just confess to killing Balon and then announce his intentions to kill Yara and Theon and no one gives a damn? Does kinslaying mean nothing? It's the same "no one liked this guy anyway" excuse they used for Doran's death. The revelation regarding the origins of the White Walkers was given very little weight. Hodor's origin story was given more screen time and importance! And don't get me wrong that was a cool scene and I was genuinely sad to see Hodor (and Summer) go. But I feel like they really undersold a reveal we've been waiting for for so long. The play scene was a little long for my liking. I'm always aware of how strapped this show is for time. So it felt like D+D self-indulging in being "meta".
  4.   It's a shame they received so much criticism in season 1 which was actually brilliant. Maybe they might have listened to later complaints a bit more if that hadn't happened. 
  5. Probably. But, some people genuinely think AFFC and DWD completely suck. Like how many people complain about Tyrion's story in Dance? But I just don't get it. Tyrion's story in Dance is some of the best stuff I've ever read. There's intrigue, mystery, magic, a game changing twist and a lot of character depth. Martin isn't afraid to take his protagonists into truly dark places. And it just boggles my mind how someone can read the Aegon reveal and then read Aegon immediately conquering the strongest castle in Westeros and just go "meh. Not important." As certain as I am that Lord Eddard is a troll, given how rude and inflammatory he's being, a lot of people genuinely have that opinion. I get some of the complaints with Feast/Dance, but others...not so much.
  6. Look, I consider Feast to be my least favourite book in the series but...I really don't get people who think that the last two books are awful. What makes you think they're so bad? Because they're slow? Because they introduce new characters (as if books never do that)? I think they could have done with some trimming, and I probably would have shifted the POVs around to include some more of the fan favourites in AFFC. But once you get over your bitterness about Tyrion not being in Feast, it's really a great book with some of the best scenes in the series. You didn't like Vengeance. Justice. Fire and Blood. ???
  7. So not only are you claiming Feast sucked, but you're also claiming Tyene has better boobs than Arianne?
  8. You're right that critical response is probably a good indicator of quality. But there's a few good reasons why Thrones continues to get good response from critics: > The show used to be really good. Season 1 was almost unanimously considered brilliant, S2 and 3 were very good. Most people liked S4 even. This is the first season were it's been really terrible. It's no surprise that not everyone has caught on. > It's a fantasy show, and I think that that sadly causes expectations to be lowered. The fact that GoT manages to pass the very low bar most people have for high fantasy means it doesn't fall under as much scrutiny as other shows. > The production values are very high. Even critics can be blown away by great CGI to an extent. Especially on television where it's a rarity. Likewise the acting is usually great. In general, each individual scene tends to be watch able, but the show fails as a coherent whole. > It has a large sprawling plot, which I think genuinely just bamboozles most of the audience, even critics, and causes them to fail to notice the lack of logic and the inconsistencies. If most people aren't analysing the show too deep, it's easy to miss some of the plot holes. > The last two books are divisive. This provides a scape goat for the show. Show much of the critical hype surrounding Season 5 revolved around taking a dump on Feast and Dance. And even with all of that, the critics are starting to air concerns about the show. Two more seasons down the line, and mark my words - this show won't be the darling of the critics any more.
  9. I will never comprehend why people seem to think Aegon, Arianne, Euron etc. are filler, just because they were introduced late. I mean, early ADWD is just over halfway through the series. Is that too late to introduce new characters? And about Dorne - There's a huge amount of character development and family dynamics in there. I find it fascinating. There is far more depth in Dorne in the books than in the show, even if you choose to not like/ignore said depth.
  10. I don't appreciate you comparing Kesha to D+D. :box: :P But yes, popularity does not equal success. I really can't wait until D+D get to make their own IP. I'll be sitting here watching it crash and burn, laughing maniacally.
  11. They specifically mention that the attacks have stopped yes. So basically by the time Tyrion ends up in Meereen, Dany has achieved peace. So this is basically just random action.
  12. Yeah she lost Barristan. That doesn't change the fact that she'd won at this point. The Harpy Attacks had stopped, there was no pale mare, no impending war with half of Essos, she really seemed to have pretty good control over her dragons. So what exactly is the point of Daznak's? The Harpies just randomly attack after weeks of doing nothing - and to what end? They're killing random Meereenese nobility even though they're supposed to support the return of the Meereenese nobility to power. And where's the thematic resonance with Dany? She hasn't lost her connection with her dragons or anything, this is just a random dragon turning up and ugh.
  13. I gave it a generous three. Mostly that was for the disgusting treatment of Stannis and the awful resolution to the Dornish story. Daznak's was decent enough to watch, but it feels unearned at this point. Dany had basically won in Meereen at this point in the show, so a random sons of the harpy attack and Drogon's appearance just felt like random diabolos ex machina to me.
  14. I have no doubt that if ASOIAF had been written 50 years ago, and didn't have any magic, it's position as a literary classic would not be in dispute.
  15. I disagree here as well. The narrative threads throughout Clash and Storm are often very disparate. If anything Dance is the most closely interwoven book since A Game of Thrones n my view. As for how connected the books are with each other, I still think Feast and Dance are closely interwoven with the previous books. They have a different tone yes - that is entirely deliberate imo, they are supposed to be the aftermath of the war. But those two tones complement each other very well.
  16. Well first of all I completely agree that Feast could have done with more familiar faces. Second of all Wheel of Time does it (Rand appears in all books but in at least one only barely). Third of all it's an exaggeration to say that Feast makes the Ironborn and Dornish the centre of the book: It has Cersei, Jaime, Sansa, Arya, Sam, Brienne (and Asha) as POVs. 4th of all if it bothers you that much there are several combined Feast/Dance reading orders out there.
  17. I don't understand this mindset. If I enjoy a book or a series of books a lot, and it holds up under scrutiny then it is great literature. That is all it needs to be. I don't get this position where people can absolutely love a book series (often writing thousands of posts on a forum about it) but because it doesn't fit some nebulous criteria of a "classic" or "great literature" they will refuse to call it anything more than pulpy fun. ASOIAF has an engaging story, which is rich enough to sustain multiple rereads. Hell, you could write a dissertation on each of the main characters. So far as I'm concerned that's enough to put it in the category of great literature. I've gotten far more enjoyment and introspection out of ASOIAF then I could ever get out of Of Mice and Men. What do you consider great literature?
  18. I do not think it is fair for fans to expect each book to be just as fast and packed full as say, Storm of Swords. Some parts of the story are going to be slower. Feast probably takes it too far more my personal tastes, but there is nothing wrong with a couple of books in a series being slower.
  19. How exactly is it going backwards in any of those things? Feast and Dance are slower yes. Are series' not allowed to have slower parts? I think that Feast and Dance are minor hiccups because though flawed, they are still very good books.
  20. I disagree. Again, the books could have done with some editing but there is plenty of great stuff in there. Personally I found Tyrion's chapters especially enthralling, by far the best travelogue in the series and filled with great characterisation as Tyrion slips to his darkest point. Feast and Dance have loads of stuff that would make for great television. Imagine Peter Dinklage actually allowed to act and play a proper anti-hero. Jon and Dany have some great stuff as well, struggling with learning to rule, having to make the best decisions out of a host of bad options. None of S5s flaws have much, if anything to do with the flaws of the books so far as I'm concerned. With two books combined into ten episodes the slow pace of Feast and Dance should have been completely negated. Somehow D+D managed to come up with an even slower plot stripped of any characterisation and emotional impact.
  21. If you don't like the pace of Dance and Feast I completely understand that. I think they were slow myself. But Ummester seems to just be complaining about the fact that AFFC/DWD introduced new major characters. Plenty of stories introduce new characters and plots late on, often integral elements. That isn't poor writing. If you want a more compact story then ASOIAF isn't for you. That's your subjective opinion, not a valid criticism of the novels. Honestly I think the problem was not that new characters were introduced late on, but that Feast did not have enough of the old characters to go along with it. No Tyrion, no Jon, no Dany - a whole book with the big three missing. If Martin had shifted around what POVs were in what book I think it would have been received far better.
  22. Well see this is where I fundamentally disagree with you. The latter two books were not shit. Feast was my least favourite book admittedly, but even that is a great piece of literature. And Dance is one of my favourite books, second or third place depending on how nostalgic I'm feeling for A Game of Thrones. As for the Martells, plenty of franchises introduce new elements late into the game - later than the Martells. We don't visit Gondor until RotK, the Deathly Hallows aren't introduced until...well the Deathly Hallows. The Martells are - in my view - interesting and engaging characters and important new players in the game. That is what matters. It seems to me like you just don't have the attention span for a longer story. Feast and Dance? That stuff is the plot now. There is stuff to criticise about them but when you're just fundamentally disliking the main plot, it's probably time to stop reading. The only nugget of truth in your post is that a lot of the material in the latter two books is not suited to television. But there is a lot that is. So the options were not between stupid and boring. Trim the fat, combine the two books into 1 and a half seasons, make the best season yet. That's all they had to do.
  23. When do any of those - except arguably (but not in my opinion) uneven pace - happen in Feast and Dance?
  24. So you think it's just a coincidence that people have been pointing out these same flaws - plot holes, inconsistent characterisation, sexism, shock value, uneven pace - for years?
  25. You can't have it both ways - either this season is worse because it's following the "bad" source material, or it's worse because it is deviating. To me it is clearly doing more of the latter. A proper season combining Feast/Dance could have been amazing. Even though they are widely regarded as Martin's weakest books they are still very good books, treasure troves of rich character development and with enough exciting plot points that with some of the fat trimmed they could have made an action packed 10 episodes. We have the Martells - a new family very distinct from the rest - seeking revenge, a new claimant to the throne revealing himself, Dany riding her dragons for the first time, Jon getting stabbed etc. etc. ETA: As for "everyone has shit days" I'm sorry but the problems that have been plaguing this Season have been pointed out by book purists since S2. Earlier even. This isn't just a bad season, it's the culmination of 5 years of increasingly poor writing.
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