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About Ygrain

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    Czech Republic
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    Fantasy, history, Tolkien, Dragon Age, Mass Efect, fanfic
    gardening, embroidery,

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  1. Let's sum up again what happened: Jon has a considerable and well-founded reason to dislike Slynt, to the point of fantasizing about cutting off his head. Yet, he doesn't mention that Slynt took half a day to answer his Commander's summons, and assings him with the command of Greyguard - a tough job but a command still. Slynt responds emotionally, defies and insults Jon. Yet, Jon does not act on it, gives Slynt the time to calm down and reconsider. When Jon approaches Slynt in the morning, he gives him a fair warning: "I will give you one last chance." Slynt refuses to obey and insults Jon again. Thorne smiles at this, Godry the Giantslayer laughs out loud at this undermining of authority which they do not acknowledge, but Slynt is the only one vocal about it: "He’s just a boy, a bastard. His father was a traitor." Jon goes over alternatives punishments and realizes that Slynt will never cease to instigate problems with discipline, and orders his execution. No-one stands up for Slynt, no-one tries to make Jon reconsider, Stannis nods approvingly. What happened was not just Slynt disobeying and being a jerk about it with that "shove it up your bastard ass". He challenged the authority of the Lord Commander, not because he had some better vision for the Watch but because he hated and despised Jon. Had his defiance gone without a response that would put a stop to it once and for all, it would have led to the creation of a faction that would split and cripple the Watch at a critical time, and THAT was Slynt's biggest crime for which he had to die. If I am not mistaken, instigating against the commander is not mere insubordination but mutiny, as @the trees have eyes has pointed out, and I am fairly sure that was punishable by death until quite recently.
  2. It does - all kinds of "parallels" keep being brought up which completely ignore the circumstances which make Slynt's execution necessary.
  3. Somehow, this aspect keeps evaporating from counterarguments.
  4. Ah. So the guy lies to protect his dead sister and the life of her child, is still troubled by his lies fourteen years later, and that makes him as bad as someone who lies left and right, never keeps any promise and throws under the bus anyone who gets in the way. Also, Lyanna didn't start a war. Aerys did, by executing and demanding executions of innocents, and people had enough of that, not to mention that they wanted to keep their heads attached to their body. Lyanna's actions, whatever they were, cost her her life at the age of sixteen. Really, how terrible of Ned to feel sorry for his erring sister.
  5. Ygrain

    Do you think the night' queen will return?

    Mel is also female, yet the result of her sexual activity is not exactly procreation.
  6. Ygrain

    Do you think the night' queen will return?

    Now that would be delicious! Hm. Since AA seems to be the champion of fire... are we sure Nissa Nissa ceased to exist after being Lightbringered and didn't become a champion of ice instead? Such a marital grudge would definitely explain the eternal strife After the Damphair sample chapter, my bets are on Euron.
  7. Nah, refusing to obey "a traitor's bastard" just screams "objective".
  8. Then why didn't Jon's friends call him out on it? Why did the decent members of NW follow his orders if they were illegal? Why did by-the-rules Stannis nod approvingly? I can't help but feel that many people apply today's standards to a decision process which has nothing to with them and make a huge deal from Jon's desire to kill Slynt when his inner monologue makes it clear that he does not act on this desire.
  9. Ygrain

    Do you think the night' queen will return?

    I hope she does return - the mystery is definitely intriguing and her parallels with Melisandre even more so: a pale woman with blue/red eyes, cold/hot to touch, takes the man's seed for...? Melisandre produced shadow babies, what did the NQ produce? White shadows?
  10. Ygrain

    R+L=J vs N+A=J (GRRM looses either way)

    Though he's not wrong about her having sex
  11. Yeah, Slynt getting so much defence is merely a side-effect It's really mind-boggling how people claim it was personal when GRRM shows repeatedly that no matter how much Jon hates Slynt, he doesn't act on his feelings but on the assessment of the situation and tries to do right by Slynt, offering him chances to rectify his character and behaviour. As someone who played Dragon Age: Origins (pretty much inspired by ASOIAF), I can only say that Jon has a much better grip of himself than my Cousland, who does make use of the situation and kills Loghain for personal reasons even though he knows damn well that he shouldn't. Jon is indeed his father's son here (father, as in, the man who raised him).
  12. Sorry, guys, should have used an emoticon. That about Slynt or Marsh fans wasn't a serious comment. While I agree that by the laws, Mance's head should roll, the situation still doesn't compare - Slynt is dangerous to Jon's command and to the unity of the Watch, Mance is not. That's the crucial difference and the reason Slynt has to die. Not for his part in Ned's death, but for his current actions and the danger he poises for the future. The first time Slynt was given the order, it was in a private conversation, as well. And how he responded? "No traitor’s bastard gives commands to Janos Slynt!" I hope you do not want to claim that his response is in any way similar to Sam's. And how did Jon react? He could only hope that a night’s sleep would bring Lord Janos to his senses. The next morning proved that hope was vain. And that's right after fantasizing about killing Slynt. He is NOT planning on killing Slynt, he hopes that Slynt will fall in line. Only after Slynt defies him a second time, he goes through the alternatives what to do with him. Jon was giving him a chance again, just like he did prior: Slynt’s face had turned the color of a prune. His meaty jowls began to quiver. “Do you think I cannot see what you are doing? Janos Slynt is not a man to be gulled so easily. I was charged with the defense of King’s Landing when you were soiling your swaddling clothes. Keep your ruin, bastard.” I am giving you a chance, my lord. It is more than you ever gave my father. If you see this as thoughts of someone hellbent on revenge, I really don't know what else to say to you. Of course he wouldn't, because he wasn't the kind of person Slynt was and wasn't in the position Slynt was. Meaning, Grenn wouldn't have done it in the first place. You keep focusing on the act and ignore the problem of personality, status and predictable future course of events, which all had their role in Jon's decision.
  13. This should be set in stone because this is what the whole situation really boils down to. Yes, Jon wishes to kill Slynt prior, but he does not act on the wish, he sets it aside. The above is the reason why Slynt had to die, not Jon's personal vendetta. Thanks for that, I had a suspicion this might be true but didn't have the time to do a thorough search. And this is present-day military - the farther you go into the past, the more common the death penalty would be as the value of human life diminished. And currently, the winter is coming, the Others have returned, and the Watch is at its weakest. The situation is extreme, and like it or not, extreme situations sometimes require extreme solutions. Jon's motivation for finally moving against Slynt is not a personal grudge but an assessment of this extreme situation, per his own PoV and @White Ravens's summary. Slynt may not have had the full picture but he knew damn well he was crossing the line, and he didn't do it because he thought he was right but because he thought he was untouchable.
  14. I sure as hell didn't know Janos Slynt or Bowen Marsh had so many fans...
  15. You have just posted Jon's thoughts yourself where he assesses the future outcomes if he lets Slynt live, so how can you claim what you do? Are you seriously comparing a private conversation in which Sam pleads and expresses his fear of Randyll, with a public statement "shove it up your bastard ass"? If Grenn was plotting against Jon and couldn't be trusted to do his job, he would have died, as well. Just like Jon reasons in that quote above that you completely ignored. But such Grenn would never become Jon's friend.