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Morte

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Everything posted by Morte

  1. As I said, it can well be, that the Valyrians did "only" create the bound between them and the dragons, and that the dragons were always there. We don't know. But as you said: Nobody else did tame dragons, at least not in "historical times" (which are quite longer in Essos) and as far as we know. There is a connection between the Others and the existence of dragons however, a balance between fire and ice. It was disturbed with the death of the last dragon, and the winters are becoming longer since. This points toward the dragons existence predating their taming (if we think, as we are told, that the Others also were always were), but would not collide with the theory of the Valyrians gaining their ability to ride them through a however horrible "Nissa-Nissa-like" sacrifice, if we want to stay with the theory that you need dragon blood to ride a dragon.
  2. My theory is that the "creation of dragonriders" (or even dragons as we know them, because to be honest: we don't know what and how "dragons" were (if they were) before the Valyrians bound them) was the event which the legend of Azor Ahai speaks about, personalized, just as the "last hero". In my opinion the legends transport what was done to end the last Long Night. One was the bounding (or even creation) with (of) fire made flesh, aka dragons. This would explain why only people out of the bounded/magically changed bloodlines could bound with dragons - if we have it right that Valyrian blood is indeed required.
  3. Morte

    Summer vs. Jaime Lannister

    Well, at least he does reflect about his more mean actions and clearly sees them as wrong, even if he tries to justify them before his own eyes, so hope is not lost here. Also, at least one of the Stark children has to grown out of bad habits (and not deeper into them), no? *fingers crossed*
  4. Morte

    Summer vs. Jaime Lannister

    I'm in the same boat here. Yes, Arya and - to a certain degree - Jon let themselves be ruled by revenge, but I think Bran will not fall into that trap. Maybe not out of human reasons, but because of the greater picture. Or maybe, because all will become kind of irrelevant once you are a allseeing tree. Beside: Jaime's habit has already run its course, as we can see in the dreams he has, especially the one with his Kingsguard brothers, Rhaegar ... and Ned.
  5. I'm repeating myself here, but it's still my opinion, that the characters in Essos and whose moving toward Dany are the one damaged most by skipping the 5-years-gap: GRRM clearly didn't think about the way on what is going to happen till everybody has arrived in Meereen and taken his or her position. He knew who and how and in which mindset they have to be when the five years are over, but he hasn't fleshed out the details for himself and is now struggling to show how they ended where. And because he has to make sure the time continuum is at least mostly intact, Dany has to wait "in real time" while the other are moving, doing essentially ... nothing. That's what damaged her arc in ADWD the most. IMHO
  6. Morte

    Problematic aspects of Sansa`s education

    You started an interesting topic, as far as I can tell... But I think the forum ate at least half of your post, because for me it just simply ends in the discussion of Ned's reaction of Sansa at the tournament - followed by a lot of blank space. So... What and how much are we missing?
  7. Morte

    The Trolley Problem and A Song of Ice and Fire

    Interesting topic indeed; I'm with @Lluewhyn here and strongly recommend Max Weber's essay "Politics as a Vocation" on the topic of "Gesinnungsethik" (Ultimate end) vs. "Verantwortungsethik" (ethic of responsibility), as I, too, think, that GRRM is trying to highlight the struggle between this two (with both Jon's and Dany's "Gesinnungsethik" failing miserably at this moment, while Dany is also not comfortable with what little "Verantwortungsethik" she did). If he indeed does this (as his statement about Aragon implies), then the characters will have to realise, that good things they intended can and did indeed turn out wrong or even causing great harm, while they have to do thing they find wrong or even abhor to get a good/better result. Struggling with this and having to realise, that one can't always follow one of the two ways, but have to balance them, while always having to face the consequences of your actions, ruling with the head, not heart or soul. For Weber, the ability to work like this, makes the difference between a truly good politician and most people in politics (no matter which political system).
  8. Morte

    What to do with Harrenhal?

    Yes, especially as Missandre pointed out that the Unsullied can be used as police and building squad in peace times (just as the roman legions were). In this case Harrenhal would make a really good head quarter. Good question. If they hear whispers directed to them, it's not unlikely. We know little about the Lady of Spears, but people tend to attribute things they can not understand to their gods, so - yes?
  9. Morte

    What to do with Harrenhal?

    The feudal society of Westeros doesn't have standing armies yet, so - while indeed being quite a nice place for something like a big garrison - no one could use it for it. If however Daenerys would bring her Unsullied, and if they survive the fight against the Others as "the Unsullied", Harrenhal would indeed would make a fine head quarter for them. In fact, the only thing that can effectively man it's walls is a legion, so it seems to be made for the Unsullied. Professional standing armies appeared in Europe around the first century BC (development toward this started earlier, of course), the Unsullied were highly inspired by this particular standing army (with some reminiscences of the hoplites), so I wouldn't be surprised if they turn up as garrisoned at Harrenhal.
  10. Morte

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    The NW's problem in this state is not their vow, but forgetting about the Others and the whole purpose of the Watch. That's why nobody wants to go there anymore, because nobody remembers (just as @Lord Varys pointed out just a few posts above yours). This only works with an actual military system in place, with a strong state administration and citizens. Which you don't have in this feudal society, expect for military orders (like the NW). We are not talking about Athenian Democracy, Roman Republic, Revolutionary France, the Soviet Union or any other modern state here, we are talking about a feudal and by far pre-modern society, the people are not citizens, they are subjects, and are not only threatened as such, but also think in the way subjects thought about their lords. The "best" thing you could get in such a world as standing army would be lansquenets - if you want to know how "nice" the lansquenet-system worked for anybody but the people paying them, read about the Thirty Years' War.
  11. Morte

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    Not love as in fraternity, but romantic and familiar love. In the Long Night you have to extend your "love" from your family to all people. If everybody is looking for the safety and survival of their relatives first and foremost, how will you as humanity stand against the Others and survive the Long Night? You will kill each other for food and temporary shelter even without seeing an Other. So no, this part of the vow wasn't stupid and maybe is even one of the oldest parts: Make an organisation with the only purpose to save and guard humanity, without thinking about lovers and family. It became an abomination in regard on the Wildlings ( @kissdbyfire is right here), as they were excluded from the mission and seen as enemies, while I do think that originally they were part of what the NW had to guard (maybe even more then the people living in the safety of the Wall; the NW was there to look out for the Others to come back and provide the people staying outside the Wall with a safeguard and retreat). And also because the NW forgot their original mission. Yes, blind adherence. That's the point. Not all the vows are stupid, nor is following them in their meaning and by understanding them, see Maester Aemon's and Mormont's interpretation of the vow in AGoT, for example. In fact, in the books we see that both, blind adherence and careless discarding of vows, lead to destruction and bad things. Here we agree (even if we maybe will never agree about the Pink Letter and Jon's reaction to it ). It's about keeping the balance.
  12. Morte

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    For me Jon's personal arc (his character development) in the first three books was very much about realising the names and families are not that important, but what you do it. And that there are things more important than family heritage. I always thought about Jon as becoming the Lord Commander under who's rule the Night's Watch found it's purpose again and fought the Others. That's why I'm with @Lord Varys here and don't like the assassination plot very much, as for me the Jon's reaction to the Pink Letter was far out of the development he already achieved in the first three books. But then, all the people who helped him remember his vows are away, but still... I would have liked at least a little more inner (and outer) conflict on this matter, not just a "I'm going to save my sister! Hug!" [The way this plays out is not Jon's fault as an imaginary person and character, but because this all was written as a plot drive, and maybe wasn't mend to be written at all with the 5-year-gap in place. It's the same with Daenerys sitting in Mereen not solving any conflict, waiting for people to arrive who should have made most of their way offscreen.] But then, now that this thing happened, I'm with @kissedby fire and hope he isn't dead dead, but only very severely wounded, having some wolf dreams while in his coma, etc. If Jon has to come back as a fire zombie, I do hope he comes back focused on the Night's Watches vows, not as another vengeance-family-zombie, as we have that one already (frankly, if he becomes something with a mind set close to Stoneheart, I would prefer him staying dead, as this would go so much against his arc of becoming free from the thinking in clan-pattern and "us and them"). As for Daenerys: My gut feeling is, that if/when she ends on the Iron Throne it will no longer be because she wanted it, and it will not be about being happy, as happiness in her life will at that moment have long ended [I think in this scenario all her three loves and a lot of people she did and could indeed trust will be dead, maybe she will loose another child, at least one of her dragons will not survive (and I think by treason), etc.] but about duty and things that must be done. It will be part of the bitter-sweet ending (more bitter then sweet). Her reign would start on the note of "I'm married to England" and end on "Since well I've played my part, all clap your hands, And from the stage dismiss me with applause". A life for the realm, nothing else, as nothing else is left. I, too, like this idea: Belwas had no purpose till now, as you point out. And concerning Illyrio, Dany switches between trust and a gut feeling, that he is too good to be real and has his own plans. It would move thing forward the Dance - and the Tattered Prince would get his Pentos.
  13. Morte

    Mance Rayder's background story?

    Captain Obvious at your command, Sir!
  14. Morte

    Mance Rayder's background story?

    Has anyone mentioned recently that we need the next book? Because we do.
  15. Morte

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    Last one, as this doesn't belong here: 1.) It's a difference between don't being "great" at something and being "bad" at something. Don't you think so? 2.) Reforming the calendar was a good deed, yes. But this was one of the few things he had consensus from almost everybody (because how much the old Roman calendar was already out of synch). 3.) He wanted to turn it into a monarchy. They killed him for this. 4.) Other rulers? Herodes the Great - Augustus (Herodes became king under him, before that, he was just a vicegerent). The Parthians? Caesar wanted to go to war against them - It was again Augustus who made a lasting peace with them. But if you mean Cleopatra - well, she was playing him, using him for her own goal of a stable, rich and powerful Egypt, just like she later did with Antonius (which was very understandable from her side. And she played the game well, better then both her men). 4.) It was Augustus who changed the res publica into the Principate. And he is actually quite an interesting example for how to learn to rule (just some of the things he had to learn): a) Have friends (in high places? even better). b) Don't send your friends away! c) Sometimes you have to go through with that god damned subscription lists... d) Convince people. (Especially those you need and/or really don't want to put on a list) Give them the feeling they are needed and important, even if they no longer are or never were.
  16. Morte

    Why did George give daenerys everything

    No, he was not. That's why he was planing the next war already, because he couldn't solve the problems within. It was only the calm before the storm: The res publica was still in ruins, he had no vision on how to reform it, how to in-cooperate the provinces, how to reform and build a proper and working administration, etc. etc. pp. His were the great gestures, but not the dry, hard and tedious work that is called politics. He was a brilliant general and orator, a great leader with huge charisma, intelligent, smart and well educated - and maybe even a grammar-nazi. He was however not a great politician. You mistake him for Augustus, his nephew and testamentary heir and adoptive son.
  17. It's good to stick to once pet theory, I do have a few on my own. However I do thing that @Jabar of House Titan is right here: Martin did invest too much to make the "get-people-to-Dany-no-matter-how-much-this-damages-her-storyline-by-making-her-WAIT-AND-DO-NOTHING-and-then-move-them-all-back-to-Westeros" work, for him now going the opposite route. However, maybe this was indeed one of his potential plans for a solution. I said "Snowy" because it must have been a place she could identify or guess as "Hard Home", had she seen something that looked like a place in the south (sunny, warm etc.), she would have gone with the rest of the Wildlings and tried to reach a harbour more fitting. But again: Every place beside Dorne will sooner then later look familiar for Wildlings - it already started, as we know from - for example - Jaime. Yes, she will take Dragonstone, but I don't think she will stay there as in the ...you know that. I did think about the Saltpans, because there are things to pick up, too (Rubies and a man and his horse, if Brienne and Jaime aren't faster for the latter). The Bay of Crabs in general would be a good place to land, as the towns there are not too far away to land a fleet in multiple harbours. I think we can agree that wherever she will land her fleet, the people will be like the pirate outlook in "Asterix", seeing the ships and the flags they are carrying. This will be one of the moments where we will see that truly became of Tyrion: Is he able to see his mistake in how he treated Alliser and how he dismissed the things he heared at Castle Black? Will he be pro or contra a "try-to-save-the-world-and-most-likely-dying-in-the-attempt"? Exactly. Sh** is hitting the fan in Westeros and not much later in Essos too (remember, the gras has started dying in the Dothraki Sea). I, too, don't see the Faceless Men siding with the Others or the Drowned Whatsoever - as you said: For them death is special and something in balance with life. She isn't a fully trained assassin by now, and as Martin removed the five year gap, it's unlikely for her to become a true Faceless Man - but I also don't necessary think it's what the FM wanted her to become: For me it always seemed as if they try to get her to connect back to her self by forcing her to abandon it. I could well see her being send on a mission with another FM to Westeros however (remember: there is no Night King in the books, maybe there will never be one).
  18. Sorry, I was sarcastic again: Yes, her vision was about something different, as she saw a fleet, I read your theory about the story shifting to Essos, and while I don't agree with you on the Exodus scenario as a whole, I do agree that she does interpret her prophesy wrong, as she only sees a fleet coming to a snowy harbor. But at the time Daenery's big fleet will come to Westeros almost any harbour north of Dorne would be more or less snowy. I often thought about where Daenerys could possible land with her fleet - there aren't that much places/harbours big enough (Dragonstone for example would be too small for that many ships). If the fleet will indeed get that big as it seems now, she would need a big natural bay... Anyway: Thanks for sharing! If GRRM had more time, the Exodus-idea could be a way to smoothen the story and entangle his knots, but I don't think it is very likely at this moment In fact, they can even meet with both of them without Arya and Daenerys seeing each other till much later, as only one of the two ships came to Braavos, the second (Elephant) is said to have succeeded in getting to Lys with it's "cargo". For Arya they may provide a way to get out of the psychopath-killing-thing and remember who she is and that she still has people she can care about, so I could see her going with them. As for Daenerys: They are almost all women and children, taken as slaves in a situation of peril - she will most likely welcome them with open arms. They will however be crucial for spreading the news on what is happening beyond the Wall in Essos, backing Maerwyn's words and maybe even get the Sealord to take the situation more serious. It get's more interesting the more people are on the move or actually manage to get somewhere and talk to each other ... We need the next book!
  19. The comment wasn't mend too seriously. I, too, think that Quaithe will most likely stay behind (through it is possible for her to come alone). It is quite likely however, No, not just likely, just looked it up: Cotter Pyke says that much: At least parts of Mother Mole's group was taken by slavers to Essos, just as she prophesied (the visions did not mention the slavery part, I presume) ...
  20. (Potentially) you forgot a bunch of Wildlings, her personal shadow binder and Barristan the Bold! SCNR
  21. Morte

    The Regret of Killing Characters

    Good to know, I have really forgotten that part. But you are right, Old Nan would be an easy retcon, so unlikely. I do agree that Varys was right in his reason to kill Kevan, he had to die for Aegon to work. If it is Kevan it's because Martin did underestimate how difficult it would become to make the remaining KL-crew work at all without him. This scenario would even be a better reason then him being important in Mereen. Now we have Sam and a few other youngsters searching for something, without any clue or guidance. Finding something of interest will look just as stupid and "deus-ex-ish" like in "the-abomination-that-should-not-be-mentioned". Beside: The interesting books about dragons and the long night are most likely locked away, Aemon's presence would make it more believable for Sam to get access to this part of the library. And Maewyn could have a letter from Aemon for Daenerys, making him more reliable in her eyes... Yes, we can agree on Aemon.
  22. And to skip time! For example: Don't tell us the whole of Dany's journey with the Dothraki, make that one chapter with a little pondering about how they behave toward her (and one flashback what happend then they met) - and at the end of this chapter let her arrive at Vaes Dothrak. I really think that Mereen by itself wouldn't be a big problem, because with the many POVs he can move fast there, while still able to skip some time. Imho the problem now lies with all the plots not only being asynchron, but also in different paces (that happened because of the splitting in AFFC and ADWD, where he didn't had to think about what happens when where), making it difficult to put the remaining story together. Admitting that he does need three books (or make TWOW two volumes) would indeed be the first step to work this out, as he wouldn't be forced to have all plots evenly displayed in TWOW (remember then in books 1-3 Daenery's story, and also later Bran's story in the north was told on a much faster pace then the other stories and had a lot more time-skips in it?).
  23. Morte

    The Regret of Killing Characters

    Yes, he should. But stories are tricky beasts, and it could well become another nod he has to entangle, if something like this would really happen. This would be truly a reason for him to "regret killing a character". Old Nan is dead, they all are. But I don't think a simple info-dumb would be a reason to regret killing them off; this could be done by someone else or even a book, chronicle or diary. It wouldn't even look strange that the surviving Stark-children did not know it existed. So one could well work around something like that. Quentyn is on my list too, even if I still think that Kevan or Aemon are more likely, he would be necessary if Martin does plan to make Dorne question which dragon to side with.
  24. Morte

    Aftermath of Daenerys Campaign

    The slavery in Essos is a strange mixture of "enslaving cultures" from different epochs: The role the Dothraki are playing is equivalent to the slave raiders that plagued Europe in the early Mediaeval Ages and Africa from then till just recent history. I wonder if Martin does plan to remove them from the slaving trade by joining Daenerys, this way he would mirror what saved Europe from the fate of Africa: The rider nomads who supplied the Arabian Empire were defeated and settled down or vanished in the annals of history. It would be a lot harder to get new slaves without the Dothraki providing them. The way slaves are also used for very elaborated work and can and often are well educated (and can come from any nation) is very near to ancient slavery, as well as the ability to buy your freedom. Rome is also a very good example, on how slavery doesn't seem to be the best way to get the most out of your employee: In the late republic and during the empire more and more slaves were freed by their masters, because they were a lot more efficient when working as freedman. However, the way freedman are seen in this cultures (at least Slaver Bay and Volantis) has more parallels to modern American and Caribbean slavery, same for the very strong dependence on slaves (in all ancient cultures you had a lot of free workers alongside slaves, and only very few private persons actually owning other humans). They also seem to have a very low legal status and even less rights then slaves had during the the late roman republic; so this situation is again more like in the southern states of the USA. But this latter part is mostly true for Slavers Bay. The slaves themselves are very "modern": unlike in the ancient slave uprisings, in which the former slaves wanted to go home and had mostly no problem whatsoever to own slaves on their own in their further lives (same was true for most freedman), the Essosi freeman are in general abolitionists. This is very important for the ability of Essos to truly end slavery. I could go on and go about the history of slavery, but this is not my point: I think that, because of their slaving-ideology the cities of Slavers Bay are indeed doomed, as @Lord Varys and others stated. Because they are so focused on slavery, that they could not survive in even a world there slavery is becoming less and less common. The other cities (Volantis etc.) may well adept, and even adept quite well, but it would still need a bloody uprising, maybe even together with the lower classes (Volantis) and laws against slavery, which must also be forced down on the surviving ex-elite. At least the first steps toward this could be achieved during Daenery's reign (Dragon, Dothraki, Unsullied).
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