Elaena Targaryen

Oh I absolutely loved the second half and wanted more. More Harwin, all the kids (both ages) and Velaryons. I would have liked to see reactions to Rhaenyra marring Daemon. I think spending more time here could highlight how it was such a bad idea for Rhaenyra to stay away from King's Landing. She should have been there to take a part in running the kingdom, being there for her ailing father, and trying to form bonds with her siblings. Even so, I'm grateful we get Rhaenyra and Alicents' childhood friendship since I don't see many female friendships portrayed, let alone one being the focus. It's even better imo when they feel disappointed and betrayed through the years to the point of estrangement yet they are still shown to love each other. Unforgivable lines may have been crossed and still they truly don't wish the other harm. That's realistic.

I agree with DMC here. The plight of the smallfolk was the motif of the episode. I'm sure the writer knew what she wrote and if not the director got the message.

Did anyone else notice Aemond disappear during the dinner? Did he just go take a leak or was it a cut scene? Odd timing either way since he was ready for drama. He's gone from the table shortly after Jace and Helaena start dancing and is returning from a side hallway when Viserys is being carried out. I wonder if he requested the pig hoping to start shit.

This whole "first five episodes portrayals vs time jump" really should have it's own thread in HotD General. It was obvious the show was favoring Rhaenyra with the white stag and I adjusted my perceptions, though I still find the Greens interesting. This latest episode has me favoring the Greens for the first time ever. I'm curious to see to what degree they can keep my regard. Alicent's children are more compelling by miles as well as Alicent herself. Now in the "first five episodes" Alicent had no ambition for herself, she had nothing that was just for her and it was sad, she had to live for everyone else. However Alicent was ambitious for Rhaenyra. After years of supporting Rhaenyra while watching her flout the rules, after years of Otto and others (even Viserys waffling) pushing for Aegon, Alicent held firm for her friend over herself and her children. Rhaenyra's night out with Daemon, conflicting stories, moon tea, and betrayal of trust resulting in Otto losing his position and convincing her children's lives are in danger was too much. From her perspective why should Alicent keep blindly supporting Rhaenyra and why shouldn't she transfer her ambition to her son? But I do believe if the Greens threw their full support behind Rhaenyra, or dare I say it the Blacks throwing their full support for Aegon, everything would have have been fine and might have even ushered in a second age Valyria. However this story is a tragedy.

Loved the episode! Big fan of young Aemond! Love all the characters, their motivations and interactions. I've enjoyed reading the show discussion here very much. I just wanted to add I liked the parallel between Rhaenyra and Cat. They were both cut by the same dagger protecting their children.

I wonder if any matrilineal societies have let a male inherit? The only one I know a very little about does not marry or have a concept of bastards.

I also got this feeling from the differences in their rooms, Alicent's looked like a guest room and Rhaenyra's looked like a home.

IMO: Otto is manipulating Alicent by making her fear for her children. ( plus the kids are needed for inbreeding ) Otto pushed for Rhaenyra to be named heir, then pushed for Alicent to become queen. Otto anticipated it would be easier to supplant Rhaenyra with Alicent's potential male child than to usurp Daemon as heir.

Yes, we now know he is a thousand years old - in the show. Which is fine but I think in the books that the 3EC being a thousand years old, and not Bloodraven, is as likely as Sansa marring Ramsay. What fan theories? Does "all" mean show, books, both? It's not a theory for the books since Bran calls him Lord Brynden several times. Yea you got a point. It doesn't really matter and it doesn't really hurt anything to change it. Maybe they even have other plans in this case. But what would it hurt to keep it? Season 1 was layered with the history, lore, dialogue that felt like it belongs in this world and it made everyone love the show. Is all these little changes to the atmosphere, causing some dissatisfaction, worth it? Robb did not make Jon his heir in the show. It's just one more of the little things the show changed or dropped from the books. It could have been a good choice to add it since Jon is important, a fan favorite and it adds suspense to his storyline however it could still come up later as a surprise twist but why bother if it doesn't matter, right?

At first I would not have thought so since it initially appears that LF is playing a long game, but now I wonder if things might go much faster. Could the tourney be a guise for a wedding? A wedding that could lead to war? If Harry agrees to marry why wait? Everyone of importance is at this tourney, the pageantry and largeness is wooing the Knights of Summer. The focus of the gifts, food, celebrations could easily be romanticized to the whole event, tourney included, happening because of the wedding. The charming and beautiful Princess Sansa of House Stark marring the idealized lord Harry the Heir could send these young falcons to begging for war to take back Winterfell for them. Oswell could have arrived on his lathered horse with news of an annulment. LF could be storing the food to feed an army and he could be closing ports and seizing ships to transport that army. Of course there are plenty of wildcards that could mess up any plans and this was all just something new that crossed my mind recently. I want to read relevant chapters again but I thought I'd see what you guys had to say first. Is this a silly idea?

This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DInYaHVSLr8 is what I believe greensleeves meant by Sansa being "fridged" for Theon

Oh yea I completely agree.... but for clarification; I only tried to count "hell" in singular form, not involving the seven hells, and the context on several of those was similar to - go to hell (the "go to hell" by Stannis in the show jarred me too) to add all four uses of "go to hell" in the books involved Arya :lol: Totally agree and get your point on "sensitive diplomatic mission", it's really silly. I just had the count so I threw it in, and since in no instance did the use of "mission" in the books ever have any qualifiers This is the only passage where "sword swallower" was used, for context; Four master pyromancers conjured up beasts of living flame to tear at each other with flery claws whilst the serving men ladeled out bowls of blandissory, a mixture of beef broth and boiled wine sweetened with honey and dotted with blanched almonds and chunks of capon. Then came some strolling pipers and clever dogs and sword swallowers, with buttered pease, chopped nuts, and slivers of swan poached in a sauce of saffron and peaches. ("Not swan again," Tyrion muttered, remembering his supper with his sister on the eve of battle.) A juggler kept a half-dozen swords and axes whirling through the air as skewers of blood sausage were brought sizzling to the tables, a juxtaposition that Tyrion thought passing clever, though not perhaps in the best of taste.

Yea some of these bothered me so I checked the (five) books and some were in there: miles - 74 go to hell - 4 context can/does matter: country - 15 sword swallower - 1 variations: hell - [about] 61 politics - 1 mission - 6 but not diplomatic

It's funny you bring this up since I have an unsullied friend that thought everything involving Talisa was ridiculous, so much so that friend even cheered when Talisa was killed. I had just convinced my friend to watch the show and friend has binge watched the whole series over the past few weeks. Talisa was the one and only thing that friend found completely unrealistic and divergent in every way. Friend could not believe that at Robb's age and position he would have anything to do with a foreigner that he knew absolutely nothing about, in the middle of a war no less, or that Robb would risk things of such great importance for her. Friend also said on her own Talisa felt jarring since she seems like she belongs on a WWII battlefield instead.

But Roose trolling Jaime was great!

Yes I agree, when Cogman writes the episode I always feel that way. The last episodes have been too jarring for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWKHkZD-euI

Could someone explain to me who Benjicot is? Thanks. [sR] "Ser Harrold has a common woman. Benjicot says she’s carrying his bastard.” [Alayne] Benjicot should learn to keep his fool’s mouth shut.

I've been having trouble again recently that seems similar to the previous sidebar issues. Almost every time I load a new page all posts are overlaid or it's just blank and I have to clear cache and refresh. But while annoying at least that works!

Really? A back and forth discussion teaching him to reason things out is treating him like he's mentally handicapped? Most adults should speak to each other this way, you know as a productive discourse. (btw isn't the r-word considered quite offensive?) What important info was dumped that required being more subtle? Well I thought that scene made Pod look good, which he deserves. Now Ellaria did try to get some from Olyvar but was denied. Which Oly better thank the seven that LF is out of town and not watching through some peephole, even Ros was not allowed to pick and choose and show preferences.... Oly even tried to deny Oberyn at first, who does this whore think he is? Some people *shakes head* LF would def sell him to some torturing murderer if he knew. (Yes I know it seems that Olyvar is running things, and like Ros ended up being was not expected to whore themselves out, but the young man did place himself in the middle of an orgy that I'm sure he was being well paid for and I don't think LF would be pleased he snubbed Ellaria like that.)

Well that's one confusing thing since in the show Loras was a member of Renly's KG, wasn't he? Then we have the scene with Tywin and the QoT where she agrees to the match with Cersei so Loras, the HG heir, will not be forced into the KG, right? I have no idea what they are doing :shrugs: Are they ignoring what has come before, or was the QoT just manipulating Tywin while she plots, or was the QoT too worried to have Loras that close to Joffrey considering what he thinks of Loras, or did she really not want him to give up his titles, or idk...

Since I've only managed to make it about half way through the thread so far, and I don't have the time to finish it right now, I could not wait to ask if there has been any discussion on this particular image from Bran's weirwood visions? http://i.imgur.com/r3udFJD.png

Loved your post ARYa_Nym, you made good points and connection as always! :)

The "She was so lovely that the lamps seemed to burn brighter when she passed." made me wonder - 'glamor technique'? Maybe these world famous courtesans have more skills than we give them credit for - :shrugs: - but if so Arya could possibly be spending some time with the Black Pearl next as she does need to learn this art.