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a free shadow

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  1. Ah, yes, someone being persecuted here by people not willing to take a bit of nonsense for a valuable contribution. Let us not forget that all this started with your willingness to engage with the argument that Russia has every right to invade Ukraine, stating the point of view that the war in Ukraine is more legitimate/historically accepted and based on less ludicrous/specious grounds than war in Iraq. If it is "more legitimate" then it is at least slightly legitimate, to move the needle, isn't it? Your further contribution is to retroactively delete parts of posts that have been proven to be extra inaccurate, cry that nobody is really reading your arguments despite plenty detailed replies on point, weirdly misread arguments made by others just to make them convenient to respond to, etc. Your opinion might be close to your heart, but it should get closer to the brain.
  2. The fact that there is not much will in Russia to blame Russia is of course true. The fact that many people are quoting still-operating media supported narrative against "the West" is also true. But in terms of the quote you chose about "more than 20 countries US has bombed", experience suggests that even the person who said that would not really be able make a list of these countries, as what they are doing is simply re-transmitting the broader message of opressed Russia chosen and broadcasted for them, against all evidence. Even your chosen source states: "These people tend not to question news reports or narratives that are the bread and butter of Russian state media coverage of the war." So, what you are favorably engaging with is the narrative and excuses chosen by Russian power structures for Russian benefit, which always had little regard and gave little weight for the truth. Not grassroots movement by the people to get justice for "more than 20 countries US has bombed", let alone war in Iraq. If you believe that the powers that chose that message would not have been able to come up with other (real or invented) justification for it if not the war in Iraq, then you must be unfamiliar with the reality, especially of the recent decade in Russia.
  3. Where are you getting this from, what source, other than your own mind? That some people, when cornered by real arguments against their position, take last refuge in "what about that other thing" does not mean they believe it. It means they just wish to escape the real argument. And it is relatively effective because enough useful fools fall for it. Not sure how many people in Russia might be resorting to it now as they are receiving more pushback (who cares, as it is a distraction rather than a real position), but after Crimea, etc. you would openly hear that it is either their right or that they personally have nothing to do with any wars and can you just not ask about it. Nobody ever brought up Iraq. As to Putin's ability to wage the war depending on the people who you think feel slighted by Iraq war, it is non-existent. Firstly of course, because the whole power structure there is so far removed from the people's opinions. Secondly, because those opinions are curated for the people and even the propoganda did not focus on Iraq. Thirdly, a lot of the people seem to be fine with any kind of thing no matter why it is done as long as it does not touch them directly. For example, I do remember still how the first argument I heard directly from someone living in Russia against the occupation of parts of Ukraine when it started was really the monetary cost of it and "the bother" of it. And it was from those with full access to information from outside the country. I am curious, how many such converastions are you having? And if you are really having any, how genuinely do you think Iraq comes up? How do you respond to it? ^^
  4. It seems you abridged the idea, to make it more convenient to respond to. What I said is that the time when atrocities are going on is the worst time to engage with the argument "What about that other thing someone else was doing in the past in some other place!" promoted by the perpetrators and apologists to waste your time. It benefits them. The student was not saying that wrong things should not happen, she was saying that it is fine, because someone else some other time did something wrong about some other thing. And your response basically is "Thank you for raising this vital point, it is the one we should focus on with walls and walls of text, made safe by a disclaimer that two wrongs do not make a right". I do not know if you are American, but at the very best it comes across as American self-importance. Sure, reflect on what you did in Iraq, you should. But don't do it in the space created by Russian aplogists to legitimise their actions in Ukraine. EDIT in 2 PARTS Thinking about it, what I am doing might be trying to limit the conversation in the wrong place. I saw it starting with the student who was defending the war and the direction you took amplified her position. However, this thread is not exactly a space where this matters the most, even if it does matter to me. At the same time, I was also prompted by the information (some of it now deleted) presented as facts in your argument. It did not seem well-informed about Ukraine, just a voluntary run along the faulty line drawn by the student in the story, which is clearly a win for her, however small.
  5. The kind of thinking of "two wrongs do not make a right, full stop" perpetuates wrongs? When you look at it retrospectively, you can philosophise that "the first party felt deeply wronged thinking it had less opportunity than the second party to hurt third parties, such is human nature sometimes and we need to be wary of and improve on this". When it is going on now, there is no time to blabber about this and especially to give it any legitimacy. Do something better. To diminish it to an inexcusable level (which, however, fits more to the level of this conversation). If somebody was kicking you, because someone else kicked them, would you think discussing this would take priority over making you safe? This has to be a deliberate pretending to not understand what was said by me, just to find a false ground to insist you are right. Again, do better.
  6. This should not be said as a small side note, because this is the whole point and full stop should go after it. Unless you would be speaking about the times long past, for some retrospective analysis. Ukraine war is going on now. And the fact that some Russian (and other) people allow themselves to argue that "Someone else did something wrong, why should we not be allowed to!" is bizzare and repellent. From Russian people especially, as it is done in their name and they should do what they can to stop it.
  7. i am tired and would like this war to end within the next week, please.
  8. Why don't you consider it important to know far more?
  9. Totally agree, and to appease Russia we should give them France! I mean, it is even better than Ukraine, so Russia would be even more deterred from further conflicts. What do you think? The maps with people speaking Russian are insane. It does not make them Russians or willing to go down under Russian rule. How much of France belongs to Portugal, Spain or Turkey by that logics? It's beyond help to suggest these things.
  10. Isn't it the most accurate description of the entire Russian operation?
  11. Then why say it could I am of course aware of the migrant crisis and how royally angry everyone was at Lukoshenko for it. At the core of it, what prevented further escalation was not some great fear of a terrible retaliation from Russia (although anticipation of a Russian provocation was one of the reasons why it was avoided so meticulously), but the understanding of the inherent messiness of it no matter who is involved.
  12. Poland would not rush Belarus, even if they can get away with it, what even is this. Lukoshenko is seen as an annoying problem, not the country or the people. You don't start going through the bodies of your neighbours just because you can get away with it. And as regards Lukoshenko in general, nobody pays any attention to what he says or does anymore. They are very aware he is there, but nobody believes him, nobody wants him, nobody even sees him, they look past him as an extra celofane on the Russian sandwich.
  13. Never, it is wishful thinking. Russia as a nation might just be at the point there they still have some strenght to bear bad things, but not much strenght to fight against them, even if the wanted to. And they do not even seem to want to, not that much. Whatever change there can be, it should come from somewhere near the top, too, or it will have a hard time unifying the effort. Not from the very top, as it is unrealistic, but whereabouts.
  14. I don't think anything will happen with Transnistria/Moldova. It would be out of character. Missiles during UN visit was very in character though. So something like that towards more European targets seems more likely. I think it is mostly blinding self-importance, because even genuine fear prompts more rational attempts to really resolve the situation, and the simplest step towards rationality would be a reminder that throwing someone next to you to the zombies will only make one more zombie. And the very basics of risk avoidance is that the biggest risk often enough is to do nothing.
  15. A lot of wars are thought in the Russian heads, namely along the lines of "how are we appearing to be", instead of "how are we, really?".
  16. We will all go together when we go
  17. i need to stop commenting useless things
  18. This source also mentions that Lithuania said it became fully independent a month ago. It is a small detail, but will be interesting to see what is the truth. Perhaps they said it too early, or the Polish PM has just misspoken somehow, or maybe Lithuania has no necessity for Russian gas left but contracts for supply are still in place? In which case Russia would be doing them a favor by giving an excuse to get out of that contract. Very small, but interesting from the point of view on how it is hard to believe even the small things.
  19. It is unlikely, as they recently became the first European country to become fully independent from Russian gas (source: https://www.energymonitor.ai/tech/networks-grids/lithuania-ditches-russian-gas). Unless it would be gas in transit, meant for other countries.
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