Eira Seren

Gave it a 10. It had a lot of surprises and the fight scenes were very satisfying. Nice moment where Grenn starts quoting the NW oath. Can't believe they killed him and Pip.

One of my favorite episodes this season. Pedro Pascal and Peter Dinklage are terrific. The scene between Tyrion and Bronn was also great.

The bit with Biter and Rorge was a bit abrupt, but otherwise I really enjoyed this week.

As the show starts to separate, under supervision from the tome holder himself, maybe it's time we started separating the two as viewers.

To what purpose?

I'm an avid book reader, and I've been ok with some of the changes and liked them. The Bran stuff I don't (just like I didn't like the 'Dany in front of the gates of Qarth Sumai' crap), because I didn't think it was well done. Someone that year defined Sumai as 'the cutting of one's hand for the sake of plot progression'.

This felt the same, 'needlessly going out from undercover and getting caputured' for the sake of plot progression.

That would be so COOL!!! :P

Eta

I thought the Other on the horse was headed for the Fortress of Solitude.

Lol! The Witch King of Angmar is only allowed if he agrees to bring along his bff Smaug, so that Dany's dragons can have a playdate. They must also invite the Others and that Sith guy from Star Wars to tea after, so they can all compare horns.

I did not like the changes to Bran. Merging him with Craster's Keep seemed very contrived, far more so than necessary.

Ghost caught in a cage and locked up? Who did that, the Watch? Before the mutiny at Crasters, or the mutineers after? Nah, no reason to before (they don't direwolf-sit), and Karl may be a badass, but Ghost would've taken a chunk out of him. We have a 150lb Giant Alaskan Malamute and she'd have destroyed that cage in seconds, so Ghost wouldn't still be in it. I'm not buying it.

Everyone's getting the CGI budget this year and it's incredible. I agree about the wolves! SO realistic. The way Ghost did the jump-back-and-snarl was perfection. They understand canine body language, and as a canine enthusiast and freelance researcher, that makes me happy.

Yeah, they have the body language down, but apparently have missed some of the more obvious parts of canine behavior. Wolves and malamutes both chew stuff to shreds, are quite powerful, are accomplished at digging and are far too intelligent to stay cooped up for long. Ours probably has her escape artist certificate buried somewhere out in her burrow. Glad they got the CGI budget, am just wishing we could see them do more than hang out looking pretty.

Surely there were other, more interesting ways for Jon to find out Bran is still alive? As it stands, Meera, Hodor, the direwolves and Bran's warging abilities made a very poor showing.

Also, it's too bad that GRRM hasn't felt the need to show us too many Others before now, and has somehow managed to maintain everyone's interest and the suspense. Leave it to tv to lose all subtlety.

why not working

Yes the Jaime and Cersei scene came off too rough unfortunately (espcially for non-book readers) but I think the intention was the same as the books (backed by a quote from the director of this episode here:

goo.gl/qSq8LV). So not getting my panties in a bunch over it.

Yeah, I think some of us may have missed the consensual part, I definitely didn't see it.

Gave it an 8. Enjoyed the scene with Danaerys. Was afraid the new Daario wouldn't be able to pull it off, but he acquitted himself rather well.

Thought the scene with Sam and Gilly worrying about the NW men got a bit drawn out, enjoyed the wildling fight and the Tywin scene.

Seems they thought Jamie was appearing too nice, so had to scuff him up a bit? In the book it's usually Cersei who's behaving atrociously.

Littlefinger as icky as ever.

I almost got a little teary when Tyrion ordered Pod to leave KL.

ETA: They have got the Dornish right.

Gave it a 9.

I want to watch it again, feels like maybe I missed some details at the wedding feast and maybe wasn't paying close enough attention to the earlier part of the episode, was in so much anticipation of the outcome.

Favorite Things:

They didn't recast Ilyn Payne merely for the sake of Jamie's training. Nobody can replace Wilko Johnson.

Joffrey's dead! He was superb at acting dreadful leading up to it, and was wildly successful at looking dreadful while dying :thumbsup:

Nearly everyone who's a suspect managed to touch Joff's cup in the buildup.

Stannis riding Melisandre and Renly riding Loras during the battle (and Loras getting offended),

Plenty of fighting words. Liked the exchange between Loras and Jamie and Oberyn's cutting remarks regarding Elia

I'm liking Brienne this season

Oberyn and Loras checking each other out

Melisandre looks happy and healthy while eating the 'spoiled meat,' while Stannis and Selyse look like they're wasting away. Creepy.

Rebel Shireen

Finally Tyrion doesn't look so nice when breaking up with Shae

Interesting visions in the weirnet, and Bran getting a bit wolfish

Reek, Alfie Allen is doing an excellent job

Ramsay's expressions, as if Roose had really just said "Don't make me rue the day I raped your mother"

Disliked

Sometimes the episode seemed a bit cobbled together, as if they were trying to figure out what to do with the parts that weren't taken up by the PW

I guess the necklace was easier to film than a hairnet?

Bran saying "I know where we need to go" after the weirnet vision seemed a bit contrived

No "I'll take two chickens"

9 for me.

Also, not a fan of new Naharis. Not as arrogant as Skrein.

Am I the only one so far that DOESN'T like new Daario? I see people saying they like him. I really don't so far. I know it's early, but he's not arrogant enough, and he's missing that edge, that cocky swagger, the smirk, the walk. I don't know. I just don't know.

- New Daario. Old Daario delivered his lines in such an over the top kind of poetic way but it seemed natural and he was on the right side of the sexy vs. sleazy line. Altogether I thought Old Daario captured what mattered about Book Daario. New Daario has no charisma.

Nothing to disagree with here, you've all captured exactly what I'm missing between Faabio Naharis and New Daario, who as I said in another thread, reminds me too much of Jorah. If they added those douchy daggers and had him at least smirk once in a while, he might pull it off.

10/10, a great start for season 4. The opening scene with Tywin was epic. The dragons look amazing. I think the Tyrion and Oberyn convo was well done. It looks like Pod got really tall, lol. I'm glad they re-casted Mr. Daario, season 4 Daario is a massive upgrade. I'm glad Thorne and Janos returned, their scene with Jon and Aemon was well delivered. Cersei looks like she's starting to lose it, lol...Jaime did well, and ending with the Hound/Arya was an awesome choice. The music they used when Arya got involved was dark and edgy, it fit perfect. The White Book scene could be the show's best scene yet.

And that statue of Joff...I want that for my front yard.

I agree, Cersei is pulling off the abusive, growing unhinged well. And thanks for reminding me of the statue, that was a fantastic detail! Very humorous episode, there was also Jamie waving his gold hand and Marjaery's line about the dead sparrow necklace.

As for the Thenns, I know they changed them, but did a good job of making them creepy and unlikeable. It's a good nuance, to see that the wildlings don't all get along.

I have a feeling Sam and Jon are going to be delivering some great scenes this year. Those two and Jaime and Brienne play well together.

Missed the "is there gold in the village" from Arya, she seemed to really hold back and let the Hound get most of the beating until the end, but as was pointed out earlier, the calculation was pretty chilling. And I really loved the Hound. Wonder what we'll get next week on 'How to start a fight 101'? The quietly delighted look on Arya's face when she sees what he's up to is about as great as the smile she has at the end, riding out with Needle on her belt.

I'm really hooked on those dragons, am thrilled to get to see them all together, one of my favorite scenes.

top marks this episode, lots of good plot arcs rising to the surface with Asha (will not call her Yara), Sam, Bran and Dany.

favorite moments include:

Ygritte shooting Jon --not one but three arrows

Maester Aemon

Dany and dragons

Arya stabbing the Frey and Clegane saying, 'next time tell me when you're going to do something like that'

The question of Theon's masculinity put to rest and Ramsay's 'i'm not a savage' comment

The Rat Cook

Sansa gets a bit of sass back, she's going to need it

Maybe we'll someday get to the mystery of who Shae really is. . . my lady

Davos. Always Davos. 'You'll be needing me'

A rare moment where Cersei actually lets herself be a little vulnerable in front of Tyrion. To what end? And the moment where she eyes Jaimie's stump. . . . and it becomes clear just how vulnerable he is when it comes to his older twin.

lots of foreshadowing here. was a little disappointed that I didn't see a weirwood door at NF.

it turned my stomach when they paraded out the king in the north. i just couldn't handle it. That, to me, was true horror right there. All of the scenes with prostitute torture and even Theon torture don't even compare. straight from GRRM, too. i was actually hoping not to see it, this detail has always haunted me. it will certainly make the PW and LS more satisfying.

ETA:

The Dany-scene was almost too deliberately feel-good (and I kept thinking, "Meesa Jar-Jar Binks", which is almost never a good sign).

Cat's scene was a bit underwhelming, I was afraid at first that they weren't going to do it. But then she picked up that sword and. . . bam. Well done. The energy was finally there. I was expecting things to move in the Red Wedding scene just a little faster, all in all, though, it did come off. Just because I expected it to be more chaotic doesn't mean they didn't do a good job.

Really enjoyed the Dany scenes. She's seems to do 'warrior queen' so much better than 'powerless beggar queen.' Even though Daario doesn't have a blue beard, he clearly enjoys being as dramatic as possible. I can practically hear Jorah rolling his eyes in the background. Bran scenes are picking up, much better. I think they've slowed the pace a bit there having Osha and Rickon along, but I enjoy seeing them and will miss them if they disappear from the next season. And I have to credit Maisie Williams, she seems to be able to interact amazingly with almost any of her adult counterparts. I always love her scenes.

Missed seeing the Queen of Thorns this week, but that was more than made up for by the crusty old Frey! Such a terrific look he gives Rob during Edmund's wedding - 'see what you could've had?' Heh.

i could have done with more actual fighting in the bear scene. and the theon scene was not exactly how i envisioned that, but i really liked seeing Dany surrounded by her dragons. this season they're finally getting her scenes right. i agree, the little exchange between Joffrey and his Hand was excellent.

Really enjoyed Tywin and the QOT: 'Oh, he's a sword swallower through and through. . . . but brother and sister. . . " heh.

I won't miss Ros. I guess they thought we might forget how awful Joffrey is and wanted to prepare us, just in case our sympathies strayed too far to the 'like' side before the purple wedding. not every scene had the kind of intensity that many had last week but still, enjoyed the wall scenes. the theon torture i just can't watch, so have to admit those scenes are effective.

i gave it an 8, but i think maybe it deserves higher. i really enjoyed all of the scenes. and seriously, WTF with the pickled babies? Forget the wax appointment, poor Selyse needs to make time in her schedule for a good therapist.

i could watch Cersei hear that she has to marry Loras over and over.

my only complaint is the conversation between Ros and Varys. i guess we need some way to convey Lord Twatbeard's plans for Sansa, but they're overthickening that plot, it just seems so painfully obvious, especially after Varys and the Queen of Thorns already discuss it. And would Varys really miss that little detail about the beds and need Ros to point it out to him? please.

The rest of the show was fantastic, the Lord Commander's death was cut a little short, but the sept of Baylor looked great. loved the Queen of Thorns, as always, and when Marjory and Joffrey stepped out of the sept together it reminded me of the Royal Family stepping out to cheering crowds at Buckingham Palace. there's the moment where Joff just gets a little drunk on that power and Cersei realizes she's really lost him. . . and the look on Cersei's face when her father told her she isn't too smart and has no control over Joff. . . really glad to see Dondarrion, he and the Hound play well off each other.

and, of course, the moment where Dany made her deal, handed over the dragon, and my dad, who doesn't read the books said, 'this isn't going to be pretty.' might have to watch the end again so can see those dragons flying over her new army.

This season is getting better and better. Gave it a 9! Most of the scenes were pretty great. Really like where things with Theon are heading. . .

and I'm going to adopt Bronn's new nickname for Pervy Pete

So, yeah, it's a significant change.

Moreover, you literally have her taking the view that maybe this is all her fault. Those who are inclined to believe that, either through latent misgoyny, a lack of empathy, or a preference for simplistic narratives, are just going to latch onto it. That's not what I think the writers expected, but it's what they're going to get.

you called it. i wasn't fond of Cat's going on and on, i see that they're trying to make us more sympathetic at some point, but this is one of those moments where i wonder why when they wrote it, they didn't anticipate other ways it could go.

i gave the episode an 8 because i enjoyed meeting Jojen, he comes across as more assertive than i imagined he would be. i also thought oleanna tyrell was fantastic (she reminds me of my grandma), and i really liked thoros. also, the look ygritte gives Jon, 'you haven't met a warg?'

and jack gleason, always fantastic. how he manages to create a character we love to hate - more and more- every week is pretty amazing.

not sure what will come of the whole Ros and Shae thing, have to say that's the one part that seemed fairly superfluous. i don't think the audience or Shae needs anyone to tell us to watch out for Sansa around Pervy Petyr.

Am left curious as to the motivation for Halfhand picking a fight with Jon. And does tv Jon just kill him because Halfhand attacked him and called his mother a whore?

Who burned Winterfell, and why, if there were no defenders?

Otherwise, enjoyed Ros and Varys, Valar Morghulis, and Brienne and Jamie. It was really sweet of Dany to throw Pyat Pree a barbeque after everything he put her through.

10.

This is how it is done.

Loved the moments with Tyrion and Bronn, and Bronn and Sandor. Great to see the tension getting to characters before the fight.

Thought Stannis was leading the men up the wall to provide contrast with Joffrey, who doesn't lead his men.

And when Varys says he hates the bells, they always sound for horror. . . and Tyrion mentions weddings. . .

Apologies, but it is bad writing and you are dumb for failing to recognize it. (See how I can be insulting and passive-aggressive at the same time, too? Oh, and cut the strawman will you, no one has said anything about the episode lacking in tits and explosions FFS.) Yeah, so? This is the Internet, get over it. Why would the forum have rules against "insulting" non-forum members? It makes sense to have a rule against insulting forum members because otherwise it'd go out of control and degenerate into an unpleasant 4chan-like hellhole. It makes no sense to have a rule against insulting 3rd parties. In any case, I haven't seen anyone be "abusive towards anyone and everyone involved". More straw. The worst I've seen were people rudely commenting on actress's physical appearance. I think it's crass and stupid but I don't see why that should be against the ToS. lol, drama queen much. Maybe these people just need to get thicker skins. This is the Internet, what did they expect? Also, it's weird because I haven't really seen a whole lot of vitriol towards these two. Most of it has been targeted at D&D or poor Gemma Whelan. Go figure.

soo. . . . because it is the internet we should be able to behave however we please? isn't there still a person somewhere on the receiving end? *confused*

That's a good point. Apologies to those whose particular preferences just weren't met by this episode, but someone saying it just wasn't their cup of tea is a far cry from some of the comments on this board, calling the writers hacks, etc.. Most of the things written by Shakespeare himself were exposition-heavy, so it isn't a lack of quality we're talking about here, but rather personal preference. And that isn't even mentioning the fact that this episode was SUPPOSED to be slow-paced. The tone is meant to echo the calm before the storm next week with "Blackwater." That was sort of the whole point.

Don't get me wrong, I love Pride and Prejudice. And Shakespeare, though admittedly it gets harder to follow during the slower scenes at times, just like some of Al's monologues in Deadwood sometimes got a little long, though rarely lacking in intensity. Maybe what I'm missing in the scenes above the Wall is a sense of foreboding, though the idea of being stuck out in that frozen, terrible beauty should really be enough. and it would be quite difficult to run on the ice. . . but the sense of foreboding. . . of something out there, worse than wildlings. wonder why I'm not feeling that as much? and maybe the pacing just seemed a little slow. It would have been worse, though, if all of the dialogue had occured at a standstill instead of having some of it occur at a stroll. not all conversations can be as charged as the ones between Tyrion and Varys!

lol with weasel soup. that scene is completely irrelevant. did any one of you actually watch the show? robb stark's army is all together, there is no separate part of the army commanded by bolton who could come over and take harrenhall. since no one can take harenhall (which they would anyway soon abandon next season), there is no point in lannisters losing control over it. hence there is no need for stupid weasel soup. arya did what she needed to do this season, and that was to escape from the lannisters. mission accomplished. and btw, entire arya's storyline in ACOK actually makes much more sense in the tv show compared to the book original. it was too convulted with her being servant for the lannisters, then orchestrating coupe to take over the castle, then being cupbearer for bolton, then never revealing her identity to northerners, then killing her own allied soldier (I know that bolton was already traitor at the time, but she did not know that) to escape. honestly it was a mess. it is easier to follow what is going on this way, you know, just like it should be in a freaking TV show.

Her storyline is easier to follow, maybe, but that's because it's not a very good storyline. Her narrative has been in stasis since episode 4. All those Tywin scenes? Nothing happened, in a thematic sense, for her character. Great writing and acting exercises, but not actually important. The complicated narrative at Harrenhal in the novels is far more interesting and has a great deal of impact on Arya's development.

i agree somewhat that the simplification of the Harrenhall storyline is easier to follow. however, is it necessary to axe all the complication? do we feel that way because it is tv (and therefore entertainment, and should not be at all complicated because simple is nice and doesn't require anything of the viewers?) i recall lots of twists and turns in season 1 that worked very well, and kept the suspense and tension, something i think i'm missing this season. there are plenty of opportunities, they just seem to slip away. for instance, do any of us think that Dany would dither around while someone has her dragons? maybe season 1 Dany, who is more careful, waits and plans, knowing how powerless she is (though is also sometimes impusive). But not this season's character. Whenever she doesn't get the answer she wants, she's all up in people's faces, spouting some nonsense about blood and fire. do we buy that maybe she is finally starting to learn? (btw, not sure if this is the kind of 'complication' i'm looking for as a viewer). wonder what will occur in subsequent seasons when the writers encounter what GRRM calls his problem of the "Meerenese Knot." But perhaps they can sort that out for us.

you don't seriously expect a 10-year old girl to slid someone's throat in cold blood in american TV show do you? her character will have plenty of time to become darker in 3rd season when she is a bit older, and when she learns about all deaths in her family. . . .

well, actually. . . we saw a 10 year old boy get shoved out a tower window at the end of S1E1. We saw an adolescent point a crossbow at a whore and command her to sadistically beat another woman. Arya begins the book series at 9. The children's ages have been advanced for the show, and Arya is older than showBran (he's 10), making her an adolescent in the show. She has also already lost those close to her, including family: Nymeria, Mycah, Lady, Jory, Syrio, her father, Yoren. She's seen a kid roughly her own age killed out of hand by soldiers on the road, and she's also stabbed at least one boy in season 1. Not to mention she's been naming names. . . So yes, maybe I did rather expect it.

We gave it an 8. Like last week's episode, this was one of the better episodes this season (I give last week's a 9). I'm not in love with the romance stuff with Robb, though a portion of it is certainly believable. And I really enjoy Jon's interations with Ygritte, Rose Leslie is really holding her own. Tyrion, any scene with Tyrion is almost totally brilliant. I like that he is finally interacting more with Varys, and thought that Tyrion's annoyance with Bronn was amusing, some great emotional intensity in all of Tyrion's scenes. These three work well together.

Rolled my eyes a little during the Dany scene, just par for the course this season, I guess. We didn't see Dany nursing the dragons last season, for some reason though I thought maybe that had been implied at least, so Jorah's line about her not nursing them seemed strange. It will be nice to see the house of the undying. . . if we ever get there.

Arya's scenes were pretty good, enjoyed her exchange with Jaqen. The look on his face when she names him! He really landed it.

One thought I do have: in a season that draws from source material that doesn't have as much action, what drives the decision to cut some of the (still usefull to tv-plot) existing action? While I appreciate the time we spent with Ygritte last episode, I find myself pondering the two ways the scenes with Jon are panning out:

1. the wildling girl you couldn't kill makes a quick getaway. there's a short chase followed by tying her up; she grinds her hips against yours, then you exchange some banter and have a stroll through beautiful scenery, followed by another quick escape, only to discover she has outwitted you and you are ambushed. later you discover your companions have all been killed, your leader also captured, and now the two of you plot to try and outwit them while taking another stroll through beautiful scenery. (in fairness, the season isn't done yet)

2. in trekking in the general direction of the wildling girl you captured and let go, hoping she doesn't alert your enemy to your presence before you can find them, you discover you've been marked and, wisely, high tail it back the way you came. your leader, with precise thinking, says if you are captured, you must yield and no matter what make them believe you are breaking your vows, so as to turn spy. grudgingly, you agree. despite your attempts to outrun them, you find yourselves cornered. there's the girl (you've been secretly thinking about her, admit it) and a bunch of the enemy. you follow the plan, switch sides. they want you to prove it. and now your commander rushes you with his sword, playing a brilliant, worthy-of-Tyrion hand.

I think a great deal of 1 worked well on screen, especially considering time constraints (and there's the added bonus of the grinding hips). Yet. Once, my professor asked: where is the action in a Victorian novel? Mostly, it's in the dialogue. And the sex is in the little details, like the sleeve that rides up and reveals the bare forearm. Like I said, I enjoy the dialogue and much of it contains action. However, sometimes I wish this season felt a little less like Pride and Prejudice and a little more like GOT.