Hedge Lawyer

I voted an 8, rounded down from 8.25. The Meeren, Eyrie, and duel scenes were fantastic. The Moat Cailin scene was also well done. I could do without the Grey Worm love subplot. The beetles conversation was entertaining and well acted, but probably should have been shortened in the editing process.

What's with the condescension? Your explanation doesn't exactly hold water. Jaime killed Karstark's son- in the book and in the show- long before Cat let him loose. Karstark could have murdered him long before. Karstark was in Riverrun in the book while Jaime was prisoner, after the Whispering Woods, yet didn't kill him. He didn't, because he was obeying Robb. In the book, Karstark goes psycho after Cat releases Lannister. Cat's rationale for releasing Jaime has nothing to with Karstark, and there's no absolute logic dictating that but for Cat's releasing him, he would have undoubtedly killed Jaime. It's a stretch.

GRRM made it work in the book- the Westerlings were a family that used to be the power in the Westerlands before the rise of the Lannisters. Honestly, it's a stretch either way.

I generally don't complain about the show's changes (I actually prefer some of them- e.g. the new and improve Qarth story), but I'm a little troubleed / concerned about a few: 1. No mention of Tyrion's giant chain? How will there be a Blackwater without the chain? Even if it's there, the build-up to the chain was one of the best parts of ACoK, and it really showed Tyrion's brilliance. 2. I didn't like Cat setting Jaime free before hearing of Bran and Rickon. It was the supposed death of her two sons that spurred her to free Jaime in the book. Freeing him before hearing of their deaths doesn't make as much sense. It seems out of character. Her act in the book was pure desparation. Here, there was no basis for such a rash act. 3. Why make Jeyne from Volantis?

I agree with this. I gave the episode a 9- it made an hour seem like 10 minutes. I know that the show is deviating from the books, in some cases pretty significantly, but the show holds up. I think having GRRM involved makes the differences still feel believable. I think that I like show Cersei better than book Cersei (and I like book Cersei), and I know that I like show Qarth better than book Qarth. Dany's story is much more interesting in the show that it was in ACoK. Ygritte is pitch perfect. The show keeps me wanting more. I look forward to each episode.

Kevan was in season one, and he was at the council meeting in this episode IIRC.

I'd give it an 8 to 8.5. Another quality episode. My only problem with it was that it once again crammed too much into a single episode.

Am I the only one who is glad that they're apparently cutting the Reeds? I never liked them in the books, especially creepy little Jojen. Giving Bran Jojen's greendreams and sending him north with Osha is a good way to simplify the story for tv without cutting too much important detail.

My wife and I said the same thing!

The book never implied that Joff was sexually aroused by torture. This scene did, IMO. Book Joff was sadistic, but TV Joff is off the charts.

I agree. That line was the worst thing about this episode for me. Book LF would never have said it. TV LF isn't as cunning as book LF. In the book, LF is a brilliant operator and financier, personally keeping the kingdom afloat finacially. This doesn't come accross on TV, where the character is much more hamhanded. That said, he's perfectly cast/

I liked the Joffrey/whores scene. It established that t.v. Joffrey is more of a sadist than book Joffrey. As someone else said, he's a teen boy given two beautiful women to do with what he wishes, and he chose to torture them. I thought that it was a statement scene for his character. Not a bad addition IMO. I'm 99.99% sure that the "Volantis" girl is Jeyne Westerling. To me, this was the second best episode of the season behind episode 3, and I get the feeling that things are really going to start picking up next week.

Also, I liked the Joffrey and the whores scene. It firmly established his sadism in a way that even the Sansa scene didn't- after all, he's always held a grudge against Sansa since the incident with Micah, and he hates the Starks in general. The fact that he passed up sex to torture prostitutes that never did anything to him shows Joff in an even dimmer light. Joff is basically Ramsey Bolton level evil on the show, whereas he wasn't quite that bad in the book.

I'd give it an 8.5, but I voted 8. Very good all around, but a bit disjointed (as with most of this season, things feel rushed because they're trying to fit to much in to single episodes- I really think that they should have done at least 12 episodes this season). I like Littlefinger proposing the Jaime for the girls trade; it will make Cat's release of Jaime seem a bit more rational. I loved the quick intro to Roose Bolton. Tyrion once again stole the show. I can't wait for next week. P.S.- bring back the original Mountain! Hopefully he'll be available again and reclaim the role. If the series makes it to his duel with the Viper, then I want the original Mountain fighting it in all of his glory.

Just when I was starting to get worried about this season, episode 3 won me back. I'd rate it 9.5. It was outstanding, easily the best of season 2 so far IMO, and better than almost all of the first season. I love the way that it stuck so close to the spirit of the book while simultaneously making significant changes (e.g. compressing about 5 Arya chapters into one brilliant scene). They even redeemed some of episode 2 by taking the opportunity to better explain Yara's motivation in her ride with Theon. I think the thing that made this episode so great is that the individual scenes were longer. The disjointedness of the first 2 episodes wasn't an issue here. I'm very much looking forward to episode 4- maybe they'll finally do justice to Stannis & Davos .

What is it in standard Australian English? It's a show written by Americans, adapted from a series of novels written by an American, produced by an American cable station, being discussed on a forum headed by an American, so don't be surprised if people discuss the show in American terms using American nomenclature. If this were Dr. Who or Fawlty Towers or something, then you'd have more of a point. I didn't intend to insult British fans- I didn't know the alternate British usage. It was a language barrier issue. Abifer understood that, so I don't see why you're defensive about it.

I think that they'll have to drastically change AFFC and ADWD to make a T.V. show out of it. I can't see them having Dany sit around Meereen for two season, I can't see them devoting time to making Briene and Victarion and Quentyn Martell and Areo Hotah and Griff and all the others into feature characters on the show. I wouldn't be surprised to have them do away with the Euron/Victarion and the Dorne threads altogether. I think that seasons 3 and 4 (if there is one) are going to be based off of ASOS. If there's a season 5, I see it being dramatically different from the books.

I'm beginning to fear that the show already can't handle the books. By ACoK,the story is already too spread out, with too many viewpoint characters at too many different places, for the show to be able to present with nuance. HBO either should have given Season 2 15 episodes instead of 10, or HBO should have more drastically changed the story from the beginning to be able to present a more focused and narrow story. For instance, they could have written Renly and Loras out of the story from the beginning and had Stannis at King's Landing in season 1. He could have then left for Dragonstone after King Robert's death, and he could have began Season 2 with the support of the Stormlands and plotting to attack King's Landing. That way, people would know who Stannis is, and Season 2 could have focused on developing him. As it is, the show feels too disjointed to me. HBO is taking the middle path- trying to stick as closely to the books as possible within the alloted 10 episodes- and it's feeling over-compressed, rushed, and shallow. My non-reader friends don't really even know who Stannis is, given that he has received about 5 minutes of screentime so far (2 of which had him hunched over and grunting on top of Mel). Blackwater isn't going to be impressive if no one knows or cares who Stannis is.

We can debate his technique, but ultimately your last sentence underscores the problem with the scene. HBO didn't set it up- it just looked like Yara was relaxing and letting her brother grope her for her pleasure. There was little hint of Yara's goal in that scene- to take the measure of Theon and, once she decided on his worth (or lack thereof), her decision to humiliate him. She squeezed him, but not out of her lust or her desire. In the show, she just reclines and lets the magic happen. It was disappointing to me ( a reader) and confusing to non-readers. It just looked like another random incest scene.

What? It's not like he was holding her or lifting her up- she was sprawled back on the table. It didn't look like such a stressful position that you'd be grunting from exertion after two or three pumps. Regardless, I think that they could've built up Stannis more before having him hunched over and grunting. That, coupled with his gasping "a son," It just made him seem like a desperate, lecherous weirdo. Stannis is one of my favorites from the series, and so far the show isn't doing him justice.

Exactly.

Exactly- hence the word "series" rather than "season." There have been twelve episodes in the series, and I think that this was the worst episode of the 12.

I gave it a six. If I could do so, I'd give it a 6.5. There were three scenes that I didn't think were well done (Theon & Yara on horseback, the brothel scene, and the Stannis / Mel sex scene). The good scenes were undermined to a certain extent by the disjointed feel of jumping between the many POVs. It was enjoyable, but I think that it was the worst episode yet.

In the book, the squeezing was clearly in the context of Asha mocking Theon. Besides, she was squeezing in the book. Theon was doing far more than squeeing or quickly grabbing Yara on the show. He was full on fingering her. It was not equivalent to Asha's squeezing- rather, it would be like if Asha was j*cking him off in the book. It went a level farther on the show than in the book, and it was made worse because it was basically stripped from the context. The show turned a funny scene of overconfident, somehwat delusional Theon being humiliated by his crafty sister into another creepy incest scene. Yara looked like she wanted sexual gratification from Theon despite knowing that he was her brother. That completely misses the point of the scene in the book. HBO botched the scene. I don't remember many (if any) scenes from Season 1 that I thought were poorly done. I can think of several poorly done scenes from Season 2 and we're only two episodes in.

As others pointed out, that was in the book. He led her on the entire trip, used her for her body, and then abandoned her to her fate. It was used to show Theon shallowness and lack of character. I actually thought that that scene was well done on the show.