Dr. Pepper

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I'd like to repeat: This episode was a love story to The Night's Watch. I am pleased. There were some great technical shots :

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For the Strangers sake people, not a bad little love story to the true heroes of the damn realm.

I love how you described it, as a love story to the NW. Because that explains exactly why I liked the episode despite it being a bit underwhelming for me.

And doing absolutely nothing of importance.

Grenn helped take out a giant, yo! Pyp showed us true bravery!

Im genuinely puzzled why your font is so large and bolded. spooky.

Oh, so its like a way of saying one is "salty" I get it.

Salty is a bit different. Salty is more haggard or brash. Like book!Tormund would be salty.

is vinegar code for something? Sorry im not hip to the lingo, but what does this vinegar thing mean?

Vinegar is sour, brah. Like the face Stannis makes.

Except that "we" know a lot of other things are going to happen. We know that Tyrion escapes and kills Shae and kills Tywin, given the Dinklage love that alone could be almost half the episode. We know that Arya and the Mountain have to separate and presumably she will take the ship to Braavos. And there is Brienne. And there is Bran. and dany.

How much time can they possibly devote to Jon/Mance/Stannis?

I don't think we are in disagreement because I agree that the wall arc will have less screen time next episode.

My point is that it seems many posters here are upset that this episode wasn't about Stannis or that Stannis is being set up to be the villain, when actually this episode served the purpose of setting up Stannis to be the hero who saves the heroes. I don't know why there is need for complaint on that specific aspect. I pointed out earlier that I would have preferred that Stannis show up in this episode. But that's mostly because I'm underwhelmed with the wall because the pacing has been really slow and just want to get to the other stuff. Still, I would think folks would be pleased that the finale will include Stannis saving the day rather than the penultimate episode being the last they see of Stannis until next year. It seems like the point would be that the Stannis of Blackwater isn't the same Stannis that will arrive in The Children.

Gotta love how Stannis fans are made out to be the crazies in this thread. We have the right to be ticked off. He has had basically nothing to do for nearly two full seasons. And any of the actual things Stannis does are instead credited to Melisandre in the show.

D&D hate Stannis, and they do a good job of butchering his character. Any time they actually devote to his storyline is mostly just Melisandre. He is made to be a completely unlikeable and all of the brains behind the operation are not his but the Red Priestess.

I have no idea about how D&D feel about Stannis, nor do I think it really matters since this is their baby and they can tell it anyway they want. Still, my big problem is that a lot of Stannis fans lack the ability to articulate why Stannis' arc is problematic for the show. The thing about Melisandre being the one credited with Stannis' decisions is a good point because it has made Davos out to be a completely useless character since there is no angel on Stannis' shoulder to balance out that devil (I'm likening Mel to the devil here). From what I recall, they haven't yet made the shift from Stannis being reliant on Mel to him relying more on Davos.

and I guess you were familiar with how a TV show is done. MacGyver doesnt save the day by stopping the ticking bomb at the begining of the next week episode.

Lol. Stannis isn't Macgyver, yo.

The typical viewer is left with the suspense of what's going to happen to Jon, as he's walking into the ticking bomb at the end of this episode.

no dude, Im saying that if you wanted him "to save the day" today was "the day".

Next week "day" is a different "day". With an other morning, mid day, afternoon and evening that have nothing to do with it.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were familiar with the "save the day" idiom. It doesn't literally mean saving the actual day that something happened. It means solving a problem when something bad is expected.

So do you think Mance not being able to negotiate and have the upper is a good or bad thing?

I think it depends on perspective. Mance has the upper hand in the negotiation because his force will eventually overwhelm the watch, unless the watch lets them through the wall wherein Mance can maintain leadership of his horde. But after the Stannis attack, Mance loses that upper hand so if he wants to get through, there needs to be some knee bending. It all depends on whether or not who the viewer feels the most sympathy with. It appears they set it up so that the most sympathy goes towards the watch so any plot where the wildling horde isn't free to reap and raid south of the wall and possibly overtake the watch is probably what the typical viewer wants. I mean, viewers aren't usually on the cannibal train, unless it's Hannibal, the Mads Mikkelson version.

Agreed. I liked the Jon volunteering bit as well. And also this is Jon's moment to shine but as another poster said earlier they could have build this over a few episodes prior. (We really didn't need Missandei/Greyworm luv scenes and such pointless fillers.) And in this episode they could have ended the whole Wall story with Stannis riding in at the end. Too many things happening next week. It will be another episode where they hop from scene to scene and ultimately Stannis most rewarding scene in books will not have the impact it had in the books.

I agree. I have felt underwhelmed with the entire watch arc all season. Mostly because they had to slow it down and add in the Craster filler in order for the rest of the arcs to catch up. I could have preferred Stannis showing up this episode, but I'm also glad that the timeline isn't so wonky when the season ends.

Theres a battle raging when Stannis arrives and its made pretty clear he just saved Castle Black from being overwhelmed in the books. In the show based on this episode and the preview for the next episode it looks like there won't be any fighting going on when Stannis arrives, just Jon and Mance about to team up and head out and all of a sudden Stannis arrives and genocides a bunch of now "good" wildlings.

What? There's no battle raging. Jon is parlaying with Mance at the moment. There's no battle at all going on until Stannis shows up.

Oh god, I was terrified when I saw your previous post. I thought it was your way of chastising me indirectly.

Oh man, I didn't mean to make you feel left out.

E-RO, CALM DOWN BRAH. STANNIS IS GONNA SAVE JON, THE BOSS OF THE WATCH, AND OF COURSE THE REST OF THE WATCH, FROM DOOM AND GLOOM. HE'S ALSO GOING TO SINGLE-HANDEDLY TURN MANCE FROM HAVING THE UPPER HAND AND NEGOTIATING A PACT TO LEAD HIS OWN MEN SOUTH TO BEING FORCED TO BEND THE KNEE BECAUSE STANNIS JUST SAVED THE M-F'ING DAY.

Damn, I'm a douchebag for typing in caps. Now I feel bad for chastising.

This is going to be the episode where Tyron kills his father and kills Shae. Where he tells Jaime he killed Joff. This is going to be the episode where Bran meets Blood Raven. Probably LSH will pop out, and Daenerys will drop some dumb lines while stearing at stuff. Thats "the day" Stannis is going to save ? It has nothing to do with it.

Ok, so you're saying that Stannis' only contribution to awesome is when he gobbles up screentime? Alrighty, then. I guess I see your point in that they've not made Stannis a suitable enough character to be able to own it in five minutes.

I love you though brah brah. I will stop cuz i don't wanna beef with you.

Beef away, brahster.

/fit time

TARGS ARE NOT FUCKING FIREPROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/fit over

Yeah, I know that show watchers probably think they are.

I didn't think they were suggesting that Jon is suddenly fireproof, especially after he burned his hand. I mean, they went out of their way to make dany fireproof, but that's not actually how it works. However, the scene was just a cute little wink. Just more Jon fire connection.

I'm so confused about why the fanatics are worried that Stannis will have lost his moment. If anything, the show went out of it's way to set up Stannis being some hero. They set up Jon looking as the hero of battle numero uno who talks to other heros of the battle about how they are totally fucked because Mance still so greatly outnumbers them, then our hero Jon goes off into the sunset to meet with Mance without wolf or weapon totally thinking he's going to die and he'll be surrounded by giants and mammoths and 100k wildlings and it will look impressively sinister for Jon until suddenly, this dude comes out of the trees and saves the fucking day. That's a better set up for Stannis in the books because this time, Jon volunteered rather than where he was forced to do it in the books. He's walking out there like a boss and if the negotiation doesn't go well, he's dead. Of course, Jon may likely be negotiating with Mance, like he was in the books, when Stannis shows up, but still...come on. How much more of a "stannis saves the day" set up do you fanatics need? Get a grip.

Mance made his position clear, though, that neither he nor his people would be bending the knee to a southern king or obeying their laws. An agreement didn't seem likely to be reached at all.

They were just beginning a possible negotiation when Stannis showed up. That was the whole "are you a true king" thing was all about. If Mance wasn't going to bend the knee and wasn't going to stop attacking the wall, would he have been able to control his people south of the wall. Then boom, Stannis attacks. Which is exactly what that poster described so it's weird that he's all butthurt that the show might turn out to be pretty true to the actual scene.

This episode and the preview for the next one locks in what I've said about TV Stannis since the beginning. He is one of the shows villians, he's not going to save the wall. Jon Snow will be negotiating with Mance about bringing the Wildlings across because the Others are coming and then boom Stannis heavy cavalry comes in and massacres a bunch of Wildlings. It's sad the show watchers are doing this with a character like Stannis but I am very confident in my analysis at this point.

That's pretty much the exact same thing that happens in the book.

Where was Cat going crazy? That final shot of her was just weird, just standing there in silence. I really wanted her on the ground, clawing at her face screaming and laughing talking about how Ned loved her hair. Not just standing there like a zombie (I get it, I get it, she was overcome with grief, geez I can feel people pouncing on me already.. I just wanted the part with her losing her mind to be shown).

Anyways, I still gave the ep a 10!

The woman went catatonic. That's pretty mad! She had so clearly lost her mind. Plus, this will be the face of Stoneheart so it absolutely works because she literally transformed into Stoneheart moments before her throat was slit.

Might get crapped on here by some, but I really think if you were disappointed in that scene it was because you put way too much weight in the book's reading, and can't grasp adaptation to the screen.

I agree with this absolutely. The book is the inspiration for the series, but ultimately, to translate the book to screen, an adaptation must occur. Things must be trimmed down, the show must create it's own canon, etc. A show is limited by budget, time, ability, etc. Plus, they end up putting a lot of the 'important' things in the scene anyway. You just have to actually watch and look. Like the books, everything in the show isn't spoonfed.

:thumbsup:

I found it harder to watch than read. Knowing whats coming sometimes still doesnt matter. It was still very gut twistingly horrible. So good.

The little easter eggs like "Hodor, stop hodoring!", Sandor's boar chomping, the foreshadowing going on, etc. Its all really good. When Sandor said "You cant hide behind that face." to Arya, i was all "OOOOOOh snap!"

Lets not forget about Fat Walda! Heeeeee!

Oh man, this one had so many more easter eggs than normal! I have this super long list of it all. My eyes could barely process, they were moving to fast across the screen and trying to keep up with what my ears were hearing!

If I were a book purist with no idea whatsoever how to adapt a book series to a screen series, I'd probably give this an 8. Since I'm neither, I give it a 10. It's absolutely brilliant adaptation work. Everything works, they stay true to their canon. I feel the emotions I'm meant to feel with each scene. All of the the little, easter egg stuff just jumps out to me (like boar continuing to indicate regime shift/dead kings). Rewatching episodes is absolutely as great as rereading because they cram each scene full with little bits that make for fun analysis.

When my heart is pounding at the end of an episode, it probably means it was pretty good. Wow!

Poor Puddles.

Why do you feel that way? I've had some episodes that felt meh to me, but I don't think I've ever given an episode lower than a 6! What didn't work for you this episode? Just curious, I love reading other people's opinions :)

I also gave the episode a low rating. I kept looking at the clock wanting it to be over, which never happens when watching GoT. I think my opinion of it will change in hindsight, but with only the material so far, it didn't excite me at all. This episode will probably be infinitely better when it's viewed as part of a whole, but as a standalone, didn't work for me.

I'm guessing Tyrion had it planned, to make Pod feel good or....he's got two twelve inch cocks and a tongue he could lick his own forehead with.

This makes sense, I suppose.

I took it as either Pod is a sexual tyranosauras or he chickened out.

I figured he chickened out, but it wasn't made to seem that way. It was just so weird, and felt unnecessary. I could have done with Pod not returning this ep, especially in the middle of Iron Bank talk.

Could someone please answer this for me. Was the music supposed to start before the hand was cut off because it did for me? Or was it supposed to start during the credits?

I don't think it was supposed to, but it happened on my viewing as well. I confirmed with several others that it started before the hand was cut off. It was very jarring and sort of ruined the gravity of that scene.

Ok, so this episode wasn't thrilling to me. I was actually bored a lot of the time. One thing I don't get, and I hope someone can explain it to me - Why did Pod get the whore services for free?

I literally couldn't blink from the moment the ships blew up until the credits! It was bloody brilliant. Everything was so great but my personal favorite was having a tune to go with the "Rains of Castamere". It's stuck in my head now. :)

The Qarth scenes are just so....lacking. There's something missing and it feels very contrived. Because of Qarth. Arya continues to shine. You can really tell how good she is when she has a scene alongside Tywin. They are taking Bran's storyline in a whole different way and I find myself enjoying it. I'm still so surprised how great the child actors are. Asha continues to be so incredibly unlikeable. I tried to get over the fact that she isn't book Asha and accept this different Asha they are portraying, but the actress is just terrible. She is no natural actress.

Because of Qarth and some other issues, I give it a 7.5.