Currawong

Gave it a 9, and that was mainly because I didn't think we needed the Loras / Olyvar scene. By all means have a scene with Loras and Margaery briefly discussing changes in their situation after Tywin's death, but we didn't need Olyvar's 'involvement'. Loved the final scenes at the Wall, and especially appreciated all the little shots of the various characters as Mance was set to burn. The cold self-righteousness of Mel as she set the pyre allight, the almost fanatical look of glee on Selyse's face, with poor little Shireen next to her closing her eyes in horror, the way Gilly turned away to Sam, the suppressed anger of Tormund and the wildlings, the stoicism/muted horror of the NW. And then of course, Mance's growing agony and fear as he burned, and the way Jon finally broke and put him out of his agony. Beautifully done.

Being forewarned, I was prepared not to like it, but when I watched, I thought it was rather clever to have Jaime say No! so quietly. Yes, it was very different to the angry scene in the book, but that occurred almost immediately after Jaime returned to KL, just after the sept-sex scene and when Jaime is still furious about what he's just found out about the whole KL situation. The show's altered timeline means he's been in KL a little while before this scene. I got the impression that Tywin was almost expecting Jaime to be angry and was prepared to deal with that - he seemed almost disconcerted when Jaime was so calm about things. Having successfully bullied Cersei and Tyrion in Season 3, I don't think Tywin expected Jaime of all people to say no to him in such measured terms. Yes, it's a shame we didn't get the 'I don't want your Rock' and 'You are not my son!' bits but I am sure there is plenty of room left for Tywin/Jaime drama.

Good solid opening episode for the season, gave it an 8 but I'd have liked to give it an 8.5. It moved far better than I thought it would, and it was interesting to see how they gave viewers some key bits of background or reminded them of others. I know some readers have been upset at the lack of mention about Rhaegar and Ellaria before now, but really, it made much more sense in the context of a TV show to wait for S4 and bring them up when Oberyn is in KL to avenge his sister. For Unsullied viewers, I suspect those details would have been missed completely if they'd been mentioned in earlier seasons. Also interesting to get mention of Ser Arthur Dayne and Duncan the Tall, plus a reminder about Brienne's oath to avenge Renly. Things that were a bit 'meh'- Tyrion and Shae, and also Yet Another Dany march to Yet Another City. Dany is not my favourite character, but it all looked so very deja vu, just with children instead of adult slaves. She needs to get some training advice for those dragons - where's Cesar Millan when you really need him?! The only thing that I thought really let the episode down and should have been better staged was where Tyrion waited for the Dornish. Tyrion was supposed to be representing King Joffrey and meeting a Prince from Dorne! So why were he, Bronn and Pod just hanging about under some tree looking like a group of vagrants? I half expected to see a litter of wine flagons around them. If Peter Dinklage doesn't like riding horses, then they should at least have set up some sort of formal welcome pavillion where the KL contingent could wait in appropriate formal state. I am sure they would have had a spare little awning or something that could double up from the wedding!

Michelle Fairley plays a newspaper editor in Philomena.

I liked the episode overall. Full marks especially to Dany and her 'negotiations', to Tywin counselling Joffrey, and of course to Jaime / Brienne. However, once they decided to move the bearpit scene to this episode instead of Ep 8, I think they should have done a bit more re-balancing of some scenes to give the actual bear fight in the pit slightly more emphasis, given that this was the big dramatic ending to the episode. I think they could have added about 20-30 seconds to that and cut the same amount from the Theon torture scene. Even though I shudder at them, I agree that the Theon torture scenes are necessary in terms of the long-term plot - it was just that in this episode, I felt it all went on slightly too long in comparison to all the other scenes. A bit of skilful editing would have left the whore-then-torture stuff still horrible, but allowed that little extra time with the bear.

Am now gleefully looking forward to what should be the upcoming Cersei - Loras - Margaery plot to have Joffrey appoint Loras to the KG. This will then: Neatly foil one aspect of Tywin's plot, stop Cersei getting married off again (at least this time) and free Loras to keep on grieving for Renly, avoid a sham marriage, and keep on following his own sexual preferences.

I agree - I thought he did a wonderful job, showing fear and terror through his eyes and facial expression, yet then giving us a man who somehow found the strength to overcome those fears and fight. He had run away at Blackwater, but here he was going to confront those fears, stand and fight. And this was a far more personal fight than the generic Lannister vs Stannis fight at Blackwater. I suggest you go onto the HBO site and read Bryan Cogman's interview about this episode, and you will see his explanation. The jars made perfect sense to me even before I read what he had to say.

:agree: Very well said on so many matters. I wish they still had the 'Like' button :)

Ah, OK - you said that Dany's line with Barristan was stupid, so I misunderstood and thought you were saying that Dany should not have got cross with him.

Being in the KIngsguard does not give you the right to question the king in public or interrupt any meetings. KG were supposed to guard the king: if they attended meetings, they were not expected to speak unless spoken to. The fact that the knights in the KG did not challenge the mad king Aerys about some of his more terrible actions (e.g.raping his wife, his torture of Brandon and Rickard) was what so disturbed the young Jaime as a new KG member. Ser Barristan as the Lord Commander would have known that as well as anyone, and Dany was 100% right to reprimand him for disagreeing with her in public as he did.

Not to mention that the main title music itself is SO totally 'medieval' in tone and orchestration! :D Can't see what the problem is.

Then on the Goldilocks and the Three Bears principle, this probably means that the producers have got things 'just right' !

LOL Duke - I remain quietly amused that so many people have continually found fault with the show, right from Season 1, and yet they are still watching in Season 3 :) They criticise this and that, they say the writers have butchered certain people, or berate them about even minor deviations from the books, they wail bitterly about changes to names, plot line condensations, invented characters and scenes so on ... yet these people are still obviously watching the show despite all their objections, and the audience keeps growing! HBO execs must truly be laughing.

I gave it an 8. I try to put aside my knowledge of the books, and look at things as a TV series. So I ask myself: does this scene/episode make sense on TV in the context of what they have shown us before? I thought everything was well done except for the Sam / Mormont stuff beyond the Wall. I didn't mind not seeing the actual battle and just hearing the sounds over a dark screen (seeing it would have been a waste of screen time and resources, TBH), but I thought the explanation as to how Sam survived, and how Mormont and the NW just conveniently reappeared was poorly explained. Nice to see Ghost again, but it would have been better if the writers had explained - either in this episode or back in Season 2 - just why he was not with Jon. Did Jon order Ghost to stay with the NW? It would have only needed a sentence or two as explanations for viewers. Apart from that, there was some great stuff. The Lannister family dynamics are pure TV gold, as usual. Love the 'Margaery echoes Princess Di' approach with the orphans, and Joffrey not yet realising her is going to be out-manouvred by the Tyrells. Agree completely with Stark Winds that: Because LF is not a POV character in the books, there is so much we cannot see there about his machinations, but I enjoy seeing him play out his 'everything to everyone' role on TV. Very clever reference to Arya - did he really recogise her in Harrenhal? Or is he just using Arya's name as a family 'hook' to convince Sansa that he's on her side? After all, he never admitted that he saw Arya or knows where she is ... Nicely devious. Dany's story is picking up some pace at last, and like others, I think that having Barristan reveal himself at this early stage makes far more sense on TV, and sets up some potential for conflict/ jealousy with Ser Jorah. I'll give Emilia another couple of episodes to show that her acting has improved now that she is being given something of substance to work with, but as yet she has not mastered the 'act with your eyes' technique - for me, she still seems to just open them more widely and stare, without any true depth of feeling. Hopefully she'll be able to do herself more justice in the role as Season 3 progresses. ETA. Forgot to mention Roose and Karstark. Liked their few brief lines, and the hints of more seeds being sown for the RW - they are loyal to Robb right now, but you can almost see the calculations going on behind Roose's eyes. Karstark just wants revenge, but Roose is much cleverer ... Overall, I thought this was a strong beginning, as it just plunged us straight back into the world without worrying about in-show recaps or reminders. The storylines and directions for all the main characters and locations we saw have been set up and moved along nicely. Now for Ep 2, with Arya, Theon, Jaime/Brienne and Bran and Rickon

Yes, yes, and YES. Frankly, I think it's about time so many of the book purists stop complaining and finding fault with even the tiniest little changes (like the pathetic fuss about omitting weasel soup) - and instead, stand back and appreciate what HAS been achieved. No adaptation is going to satisfy everyone. Rather than nipick to death, I think its about time everyone said a great big THANK YOU! to Dan and David, for having the sheer guts and dedication to do everything necessary to bring this world to our TV screens. And to GRRM for allowing them to do so. These two men have invested 26 hours a day, 9 days a week, 360 days a year for the last few years, doing their level best to bring GRRM's extremely complex books to life. They and HBO have assembled an incredible pool of off-screen backstage talent, and an absolutely amazing cast, who continue to deliver over and above anything they might have hoped for (especially the kids). They have filmed day and night in three or more countries per season, they have produced TV of a quality that is rarely ever seen, and they have signed up to do exactly the same for at least another two seasons. No one is ever going to produce the 'perfect' adaptation of any book, let alone an entire series set in a different world with multiple complicated plot lines and an ever-increasing cast of characters. I'm just amazed that anyone thought it could be done, and that D &D have actually made it happen. And so at the end of Season 2, I'd just like to say: Bravo, David and Dan - thank you, thank you, and take a bow. Take several bows and lots of applause. (And don't let the turkeys get you down!) :D

Yes, and that makes a lot of sense, given that AFFC and ADWD run in parallel for the most part, and it was basically a practical publishing decision that made GRRM separate the story lines into two volumes. I believe that D and D are going to "re-integrate" them as far as possible, which will allow viewers to keep in touch with key characters and not 'lose' a number of them for a whole season or more. I expect that ASOS, AFFC and ADWD wil take at least 4, possibly 5 seasons overall. Oh yes, YES! And before Tyrion, we have that scene where Jaime returns to KL and tells his father that he doesn't want any part of Tywin's plotting, including marrying Margaery. Which I hope, HOPE will get shown with the key book dialogue, especially having seen how Charles Dance and NCW spark on screen together in season 1:- "She can die a maiden as far as I am concerned. I don't want her, and I don't want your Rock!" "You are my son - " "I am a knight of the Kingsguard. The Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. And that's all I mean to be!" WHAM! Take that one, Tywin, for all those dreams of a family legacy that you outlined to Arya in Episode 7! Proud and determined Tywin leaving Harrenhal in Episode 8 to go and win the war across in KL, when book readers know he will ultimately be rejected by his 'ideal' son and killed by the son that he has scorned over the years :D It's such a bitter irony. But it's in the second part of ASOS, so wonder whether I have to wait for Season 4 to see that?

I just don't find it a huge deal, or think that Cat would follow every step of Cersei's pregnancy ('how' she would do that is beyond me). Ned's death as head of the Starks had far more practical importance for the kingdom. Basically, it was a tiny, tiny little conversation point in the TV show and hardly evidence of supposed "sloppy writing". Edited for typo.

Not necessarily. You are looking at things from a 21st century POV where communication is instant. Heck, some kids these days look totally dumbfounded at the idea that people actually wrote physical letters! In the world of Westeros, urgent communication is by raven, and those are only used for essential matters, not the ordinary chit chat. Ordinary letters between people can take weeks or months to arrive (and sometimes don't arrive at all) and they didn't have newspapers or any other form of public information other than gossip. Nor do I see Robert as the sort of person who regularly wrote 'happy family catch up' letters even to his best friend Ned! I don't therefore find it at all strange in the context of Westeros that Catelyn didn't know about a child of Cersei's who died very young. And even if Ned had happened to mention it to her in passing, it would not the sort of detail that Cat wouldhave bothered to remember. Anyway, that aspect of the Cat/Cersei conversation was such a very minor point, it hardly qualifies as 'sloppy writing'.

Sorry, but Book Catelyn was also an idiot. Sure, she was a desperate mother worried about her daughters, and in the books she was also grieving for Bran and Rickon. But as you say, she was the daughter and wife of great lords, so she SHOULD have understood the practical and political imperatives of keeping a key person like Jaime Lannister, Kingslayer and son of Tywin, as a Stark prisoner. He was a bargaining chip they could ill afford to lose, but she threw it away on some inherently stupid scheme to send him off downriver in a boat to KL, with only a Lannister cousin and Brienne to guard him. As harebrained and idiotic schemes go, that one realiy is hard to better! :D

Agree with Rockroi's posts above. The writers have had to condense and streamline so much anyway, plus they were also faced with the task of bringing certain key people onto our screens where they are absent from the book ACOK. Robb in particular does not get a POV in the book, but because they have to show him on-screen (they can hardly have characters sitting down and expounding at length about what he's done!), they have to make some changes that allow them to show Robb, but in a condensed and meaningful way. The real guts of the Robb + Talisa/Jeyne story is that Robb is betrothed to a Frey girl, but because he has sex with another woman, he decides it is honourable to marry her and thus he betrays his vows to the Freys. As long as the writers can show that critical element leading into Series 3, then I couldn't care less if they have Talisa rather than Jeyne. Get realistic. It's not sloppy writing at all - why on earth would Catelyn, married to Ned and way up north in WInterfell for all those years and concerned with her own family, know or care anything about what was happening to Queen Cersei in KL as far as having babies went? She's hardly on good terms with Cersei anyway!

I honestly don't understand all the complaints about not getting weasel soup. I mean, if TV Arya isn't known as "Weasel", how or why can they have weasel soup in the same way as the book? Get over it, people! Yes, it was a 'fun' part of the book with Arya, but in the overall context of her storyline across this asnd the next 3 books, it was a tiny little detail that really has absolutely no long term signficance. Talk about griping over inconsequential changes!

But as explained, it makes perfect sense in the context of the TV show. Deal with it on those terms.

When you look at it from a practical point of view, I guess they figured (reasonably) that a man in a large cage, who is heavily chained at his hands and neck and secured to a large post, is not exactly going anywhere in a hurry! As Alton is unarmed and doesn't have the keys to Jaime's chains with him :D I guess they also figured that he didn't pose much of a threat either. Of course, the way they have written Jaime, it was a little silly putting anyone at all in with him, but again I guess Robb's and co didn't think Jaime would kill a very distant cousin. The only really stupid mistake they made was having the keys handily available on the person of that single guard, and not held in a nearby tent or with someone in authority.

Well, Cersei did cry in front of Tyrion in the book (much to his amazement / confusion!) though she immediately rejected his attempt to comfort her. That scene occurred much earlier in the book ACOK, when she is protesting about his idea of marrying off Myrcella to the Dornish heir, thus unknowingly revealing to Tyrion who her spy is. So the fact that she cried and let down her guard is true to the books, just that the context is different and the writers have extended it somewhat by allowing her to actually speak of her fears and concerns.

Yes, it was a really interesting interview, and I think GRRM makes it very clear how even tiny things in a story can cause problems when adapting that story for the screen, depending on time and budget. LOL at his tale of "You can have horses, or you can have Stonehenge", but that was typical of the many compromises that have to be made. Frankly, I don't think ANY adaptation of the ASOIAF books would ever please all the fans, because it is totally impossible to be 100% "faihful" to the books when translating them to the screen, given the way they are all written via different POVs. And there would always be someone complaining about something, however tiny - a favourite minor character being omitted, roles combined, name changes, location changes, dialogue changes, someone's on screen appearance not being what a reader imagined, use of mastiffs instead of bloodhounds (or was it the other way round?!!), 'I thought the dragons would be different / bigger', etc etc. I am with others who say that I am glad we are getting this series at all. Yes, I have various nitpicks with things that IMHO could have been done a little better, but I also accept that these are considered decisions of D&D as writers /producers. So I have decided to sit back and simply enjoy the series as TV, because D&D are essentially keeping to the spirit and major story lines of the books, and because I enjoy watching such superb acting bringing the world of Westeros to life.