Versiroth

The only thing I didn't like was the burning of Winterfell. I mean, who burnt it? The Iron born before they surrendered? It was probably very confusing to most non-readers. As far as not showing Roose/Ramsey's betrayal, they're probably saving that for the Red Wedding so that it has more impact. They'll probably have Roose talking Robb into going to the Freys to make amends and they may even have him be the one who plunges the sword into Robbs Heart. Other wise, I really liked the episode and can't wait until season 3.

Love makes idiots of us all. :)

I think they switched her just so they could have her within his camp. That way, they could have multiple scenes building their relationship up.

They said in the show that they were digging a latrine.

Yeah, we will agree to disagree then because I disagree with you completely.

Robb and Catelyn... DRAMA! Robb locking up his own mom = Drama. Robb releasing her when he finds out that his brothers are dead = drama. Robb instantly forgiving Catelyn never made sense in the books anyway. This way, he did the right thing by imprisoning her and the news of the deaths will give him reason to release her. And it was made obviously clear that Karstark was planning on killing Jaime. So, her releasing him in an attempt to free her daughters was obvious. Learning of her sons deaths doesn't change that she saw this as her lone opportunity to free her daughters. Not once has Jon shown to be questioning his vows. He couldn't kill Ygritte in the books and he couldn't in the show. Heck, in the books, he actually lets her go... which shows him staying more tru to his vows that in the book even. The Halfhands death will be the same. He will order Jon to kill him and then play the role of spy. They're already setting that up. The only difference is that Jon got more time with Ygritte, a character that will play a big part next season over Quorin, who dies soon anyway. Some times, written word just doesn't translate. You can't read a book and then expect inner monologue, pointless travel scenes, scenes about how much food the characters have left, etc will make the cut into a time limited series. They simply do not have the time.

1. This was the reveal that Tyrion WAS head over heels! Even Shae seemed surprised. Not everything in a TV show can have an elaborate build up. A lot of people simply expect too much. It's obvious that Tyrion was trying to hide/protect Shae and in this episode, we find out that he's in love with her. 2. So, you'd have rather Robb go off to the Crag and then come back married to some random girl? They couldn't have the duaghter of the enemy roaming around in Robbs camp. Even if it would have been that Jeyne was there to spy as people guessed, Robb would have been forced to execute her once he found out for providing intel to his enemies. This way, you get to see more with Robb, you get to see why he broke his oath and you get to see their love story. This will make future events hit even harder. The fact that Robb marries Jeyne has no consequence in the show/books at all. Talisa gives the audiance something to see in the show from Robb. The book barely had him in it at all. 3. Arya and Tywin gave screen time and insight to two important characters. Regardless of people thinking Arya some how "too innocent" in the show due to not killing a guard herself, She ordered the death of two men and was also responsible for the death of those guards. That alone shows she's capable to taking life. It shows the path she'd going down. I'm guessing they will use the "killing" part as a character arc once she gets to Braavos. They'll likely make her struggle with it. It's a time limited TV show. Would you honestly have rather them give screen time to a bunch of random characters like in the book? And on top of that, a lot of what you get in the book is inner monologue. Another writing device that doesn't work on screen. 4. I don't disagree that Dany's story is the weakest this season, but I appreciate that they tried. Martin really didn't do much with her in this book other than in the HoTU, so the writers on the show gave it more build up. All they did was try to spice up what they were given. Luckily, her story gets better going forward. Taken for what it is, this is an awesome show. The best on TV right now, IMO. It's honestly sad that people that have read the books (well, a lot) can't just watch it for what it is. This is NOT the book series. It's an adaptation. Minor things will change a lot and very important things will change some too from time to time.. It happens. Stop watching it with a magnifying glass and a copy of the book in hand and you'll enjoy it much, much more. Otherwise, you might as well stop watching altogether and just re-read the books. I promise, nothing will have changed in those at all.

"That way, Jaime wouldn't have been off-screen for 5 full episodes ." He's been in a prison the whole time... what kind of scenes would you have liked?

Again, this is the same Jaime that tried to Kill a small boy "for love". Do you think sacrificing some distant relative is some how worse than that? I think this is a case where your mindset with Jaime is of him after his "redemption". Pre-missing his hand Jaime was not a good person, at all. We never saw how Rob fell in love with Talisa/Jeyne in the books. And the red wedding will happen just the same. Robb will likely come back from the Krag married to Jeyne and the Freys will be outraged. Either that, or they'll add in more plot of him being wounded at the Krag, tended to by "Talisa", etc. Either way, the end result will be the red wedding. Catelyn has 4 children that are currently being held captive. She has something in her possession that she feels will free two of the 4. That's honestly reason enough. Especially since her bartering tool may not last the night, and she knows that Sansa and Arya are as good as dead if Jaime dies. Plenty of reasoning there. Cersei also tells Sansa that she will love her Children as she does her own. Knowing that Joffrey is crazy and not loving your son are two different things entirely. Of course she'd be upset when he dies.

Ok, now with the hyperbole? First, the changes are made for time and also to add spice to some of the slower stories. And what character is a complete 180? Jaime? The same Jaime that pushed a small boy out of a window hoping that he'd die? Also.. nudity....? Did you read the books? Martin was way more graphic than the show seems to be.

That's not the impression I get when I read comments like "Did anything in this episode actually happen in the book?!?". That, to me, says that the person wants things to mimic the book even at the cost of a slow and boring plot. If they didn't do something with Dany and Jon differently than what happened in the books, they might as well just cut them entirely. The books are amazing. WAY better than the show. With that said, a lot of the things in the books just do not work in a TV series where time is not unlimited. And even if this season was 20 episodes, they still couldn't show 10 scenes with John doing little more than marching through the snow. People would stop watching. I even saw one person say they've given up on the show thanks to the changes.... really? Not one single change has changed anything significant at this point. I'd understand if they killed off a main character, like Tyrion or something, but people complaining because Dany's Handmaidens died? What did they do in the books that was so important? It's things like that that people are going overboard about. I can't think of one change that has significantly changed the course of the series. Please enlighten me if I missed it.

I guess that did sound kind of contradictory, but I think the main difference is, I can see why most changes are made and even the one's that I've disliked (like Cersei being made to look like a victim of her son) will likely figure into a future scene as well. I actually like most changes (Dany and Jon) just fine because I understand that their stories needed more filler. Some here seem to dislike anything that was changed regardless if it added to the story or not. They seem to just want a straight adaptation, which again, isn't really possible for more reasons than one.

First off, people really need to get over the fact that some things are different in the show than in the books. Martin can be as deliberate and slow in the books as he wants to be. He can have 4 chapters that reside completely within a characters head, he can have things drag on as long as he wants, etc. They can't do that on screen. It just wouldn't make for good television. Purist would say "Yep, that was spot on!" while everyone else would say "Did anything actually happen in this episode? I fell asleep 3 times!". As far as the episode goes... Winterfell: The walnuts are there as a plot devise for the audience only. Dagmar's idea was to pull a bait and switch, which is actually what happens. The walnuts are there simply to fool the audience into thinking the boys are the one's killed. Bran, Rickon, Osha and Hodor will likely never return to Winterfell. You won't see the scene with master Luwen either. It's just not important to the TV show that he knows the boys lived, since he's about to die anyway. All that's left is likely Yara showing up to tell Theon he's screwed and then Ramsey sacking Winterfell (making it seem as though Theon is killed, I'm sure). Beyond the wall: Again, Jon doesn't do much in this book, so somethings had to be created. I do hate that The battle with the others seems to have been cut out, but I guess they figure Jon's story is more important. What will likely happen now, John will likely find that Qhorin had been capture as well and he'll likely tell Jon to kill him and join the wildlings to spy on Mance. So, the end result would be the same, but you got to see john do more than walk through the snow for 10 episodes. In the Riverlands: Ok, Jaime, at this point, is a bastard. Everyone knows this. They aren't going to show him being all noble and such right now, because once he does start to change some, they want it to be more pronounced. Him killing his cousin there and antagonizing Catelyn is the writers way of showing you that he's still an arrogant douche (personally, I still hated him even in ADWD). Kings Landing: See, this is why sticking to the book can be a very poor choice for the series.... the moon blood scene was horrible. It was pulled from the book, yes, but come on... Sansa is taller than Cersei now and looks to be 17 or 18 at this point. Also, I didn't like the scene with Tyrion and Cersei either because I HATE Cersei and the books never painted her into a good light (as they tried to do with Jaime). She was always conniving, always backstabbing, etc. Which honestly, may have been what they were trying to do there. Pull Tyrion into a false sense of family so Cersei could stab him in the back in the coming episodes. Harrenhall: I think Arya will ask Jaqen to kill Tywen, but he'll be leaving at the time. When she realizes she's too late, she'll ask him to help her free some captured Northmen that were just brought in. Then we'll likely get to see the weasel soup scenes. EDIT: Fixed Grammatical errors.... it's too early, haha.

You're really assuming way too much here. First off, he's chasing her because he didn't let her go yet. He couldn't kill her, she ran, he chased her. At this point, I don't think he really knows what to do with her. I believe that he'll find the Halfhands encampment, but before he rejoins him, he'll "surprisingly" let Ygritte go free. Later, Ygritte vouches for Jon to Rattleshirt. Adding in a little more face to face time with the two instead of him letting her go automatically actually works better if you think about it. It will likely all work out the same in the end. This way (like most of the changes in the TV series) simply works better on screen than sticking with the way it was done in the book. They can't do a bunch of inner monologue like you get in a book, so they have to actually "show" you more. Also, as far as Ghost not being around, they had a scene before this one where he was wondering off.

I really like this idea, but wasn't Dagmer with Theon before he left Pyke? Why would Ramsey be on the Iron Isles?

As for my thoughts... Dany: I loved the scene with the spice king. It kind of sets up the mindset that she needs to "fight" for what she wants and not expect people to give it to her. This sets up her need to go to slavers bay to buy an army nicely. Also, as I mentioned earlier, they had to give her something more dramatic to do this season than sit around with one breast exposed. She had to go to the House of the Undying anyway and now, she'll have even more reason to want it burned to the ground. Also, as far as her visions there go, they could easy make her drink the shade of the evening in order to win her dragons back. Jon/Ygritte: Also loved this. It give Ygritte more screen time, so Jon and she can build a relationship. This way, it makes more sense when she vouches for him to Rattleshirt. I'd imagine that Jon will find the Halfhand in the next episode and he'll release Ygritte before he rejoins his brothers. I would have also like a "You know nothing John Snow" when he asked her to quit moving the second time. :) Theon: WOW.... I never felt much sympathy for Theon until he became Reek (and even then, it almost made me angry that I DID feel sympathy after what he had done), but I'm genuinely sad for his character. You can tell that he's fighting himself with every choice made. Being pulled in two different directions constantly. They are handling his story brilliantly. Arya/Tywin/Jaqen/Littlefinger: I love Jaqen and I'm actually kind of sad that he'll be gone soon. His reaction when Arya says "Now!" was priceless. Also, the Dyslexia thing makes sense even if it is new. Jamie was never known for being book smart and the story adds depth to Tywin and like others have said, reinforces GRRMs premise through out the books. That just like in life, most people are not inherently good or evil, but a mixture of the two. Tyrion/San/San/Joffrey: Basically a perfect scene. Tyrion was brilliant as usual. This episode was almost perfect. If gave screen time all around without anything feeling rushed or cut short. My only problem now is that we're over halfway through this season and the wait for season three will be unbearable. :(

Most of the changes this season have been to spice it up. Nothing really happens in the Dany story, so they added her dragons being stolen to make it more entertaining. Same with Jon and Craster and now John and Ygritte. Most of the changes, like these, make perfect sense for TV as they are more entertaining than the scenes in the book.