Gran de Lys

That's what I'm thinking, boojam. SOMEBODY in Westeros has got to know Arya is alive and out there. I just can't remember how that plays into the fAyra plot later. Or perhaps it doesn't. It gets kinda blurry as of book 5.

That's a good point about Arya and the Hound being so visible. I just got carried along by their awesome road trip but now that I think about it, I can see both sides (it's so obvious! vs. who would know or care?). Surprising Tywin did not put a bow in this loose thread and send out an envoy--"I'm looking for a highborn girl of 10, potty-mouthed rapscallion, horse-faced, likes to stab things."

I think what happened was Shae was gonna leave, but Tywin ordered all ships to be seized afterJoff's death, and then Shae gets found.

Here is my theory, with less big-ticket unseen backstory, more King's Landingish treachery, and preserves the show's stupid whitewashing of Shae:

Bronn delivers the goods to Shae and tells her she should GTFO, courtesy Tyrion Lannister. What she thinks of this doesn't matter, although probably shocked/appalled/etc., considering how she acted (unreasonably, petulantly and unlikeably and with a bad accent) the last time she even thought he tried to buy her off, although by this time Tyrion has at least breached the notion.

Bronn promptly runs to Tywin (unlikely but quick-acting) or one of Cersei's little birds (much more likely but one degree of separation) to report that Tyrion still has a whore and she accepted a bag o' dragons to make like a tree and leave. Ambitious Bronn is seen as being useful to Top Lion Tywin, who seizes the hooker with the bag of gold and sees a brilliant closer for his show trial. Bronn knows Tyrion's value in KL is dropping fast, even before Joffrey's murder, and makes his move.

Well, I like it, anyway.

Oh, p.s. Looked for Bronn at the trial and could not find him, although his presence may not have been necessary. Still, it was weird.

Having read and re-read the books, scoured the forums, watched and re-watched all episodes, I still feel as if there are things they're throwing at us that I needed to have paid attention to but didn't. Like I gotta know who Karl is (soon to be was) now? It's like being Unsullied after countless hours of reading and watching. Sigh.

Thoughts on the episode: I liked the Night King. I miss Shireen. Sansa's not as dumb as she looks. And welcome, Ser Pounce!

Ah, so they're not just slavers, they're FUNNY slavers. Outstanding.

With funny hair. It's almost Hunger Gamesish.

I really wish Mr Sophia Vergara did not look so much like my friend Steven. He's hot but ... we're just friends, man. And Steven's fully gay.

I have no problem with Dwarf!Balon saying, "I'm drowning!" It is known (heh) that those salty Iron Islanders have a Drowned God and a thing for all things watery. Not sure why Mel's prophesies are playing out in the wrong order, though.

but he was so clearly not happy about it! i think they're really showing he's not in the same camp as mel and selyse.

ITA. He seemed trapped to me, by his unyielding nature.

New original series: Bedtime Stories by Melisandre.

Hush, little baby, don't you cry. We're all worm food when we die.

Yeah. I couldn't and still can't figure it out. It seems as if Bronn helps/makes Shae go away. Which would be super anti-climactic for certain people (me) who are waiting to see her

strangled to death while looking into Tyrion's eyes

.

Oops, this is a pro-spoiler thread. Sorry. Just got over-exciterated.

Perhaps an all-nudity thread is in order. Clothes-optional for the forumites.

I had no problem with the kneeling because the show drastically altered the context of her wedding. It was sprung on her, she's dressed and hustled to the sept to marry a man who had never been floated to her as a husband. Her act of defiance hints at how generally cold and shitty she is to Tyrion (justified or not; I'm not getting into that part) during their short marriage, and sours her in his eyes (later he muses bitterly, to paraphrase, "She would not bend those stiff Stark knees").

My problem with the scenario was Joffrey taking the stool. Of course he's the absolute worst, but to play an adolescent prank like that, at a royal wedding, in the Sept of Baelor, in front of granddad ...! I didn't buy it. And I didn't buy the widespread tittering among a crowd full of people who may want to suck up to the titular king but must know who really rules, and you don't want to piss him off in church. Joff acting the fool and the crowd snickering demonstrates an implausible lack of respect for the circumstances.

Action can be good and all, but this is not Game of Thrones, starring Bruce Willis as Robb Stark.

I would pay good money to ensure Hollywood never makes that.

After rewatching, I found I really enjoyed the episode--this time. We got lots of info and a couple of nice intimate scenes, and some of the pieces on the cyvasse board have moved into interesting new positions. Since the screen on my laptop is much brighter and clearer than my crap HD TV (I know, right?), I got to appreciate details and looks and moments that were just beautifully crafted. That said, I zipped through The Reek and the Maidens Fair, because enough. He's being broken down as Theon, but now he has to be built up as Reek. That, to me, is the problem with the extended torture scenes. The why of it being kept mysterious to us (and to Theon) results in diminishing returns.

Bring on the weddings! I already sent Edmure and Roslin a top-of-the-line blender.

The (Little) Rope: I will say that while I am relatively unimpressed with the “Obvious” scenes wherein characters who are talking should not be actually talking, I thought that the LF-Varys back-and-forth was great. Varys, strangely, represents optimism, hope and fulfillment; LF represents a bleak dystopia wherein all there is are rope and ash. And he is the one watching others climb. That dichotomy was a very well-needed bookmark for this episode and this series. Poor Roz.

Well said. It’s interesting to watch Varys’ progression, as he is one of the quieter web-spinners in the GoT. Both he and LF have been enigmatic dark horses from the start, but I think GRRM has played a very subtle game with Varys. Think back to Ned asking Varys whom he served, and Varys answered “The realm.” Which, upon re-reading through DotD, turns out to be quite true. From the start, he has been grooming the Seven Kingdoms for little Aegon Bluehair’s ascension to the Iron Throne, while Littlefinger’s agenda—no less insidious but in the end less ambitious—had to do more with his own goals and greed. (Recall that fabulous scene in S2 where Cersei takes notice of the Mockingbird pin—she may not be as clever as she thinks she is, but she’s smart enough to know that means LF has created his own “house” and is no man’s or king’s creature.)

I think this has been mentioned before but does anyone think that the non-book readers should have no illusions as to who has Theon?

Even for bookies, there is a lot to keep up with and remember, so not really. But I do think they should just spill the beans already. My unsullied husband has watched each show twice and when I said that “Karhold” was a lie and tried to explain who Ramsay was, he was like, “Don’t care! Too much!” And the dude is a film critic, lol.

The means of Ros’ death was disgusting and unnecessary. I understand we need to ramp up the Joffrey hate in time for the RW, but still—it was pornographic and gratuitous. I think part of the snark about people come out of the closet and saying, “Boo, they killed poor Ros,” was because a lot of us who liked her were intimidated about speaking up before in the face of all the hate.

My favorite part was how Frey-like those Freys look. There is nothing liked a Frey, is there? Except the lovely Roslind. Edmure needs to STFU and soonest.

Line of the night: “It’s more of a brooch, really.” Girl, I am living for your brocade, hunty.

Kayso, are we going to talk about Brienne in her shabby pink dress, or just pretend it didn’t happen because it’s such a sad sight to see?

The best thing about this episode was no Talisa with the four-way hips.

This is the second episode where Brienne has made a comment about women being weak. The first could be seen as striking at Jaime's pride. Here? Internalized Misogyny? Deliberate? Unfortunate? I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it.

Sorry to reach back so far through the thread, but it's mainly cultural, I think. That "woman are weak" is all she's ever heard about her sex, and the women and girls around her are the ones who internalized it and made that characterization a self-fulfilling prophecy. Between the times, the culture, and the lack of an opposing viewpoint or living example (I mean, Nymeria, I guess, so long ago), it must take someone of great strength of character to reject all of that and decide that, if that's what a woman is, she sure as hell wasn't going to be one. Brienne took it upon herself to say that biology is not destiny, and even so, as you see with the icky group wager for maidenhead, and the attempted rapes, her biology sure looks like destiny from where the men are standing. Poor Brienne. I think what she is saying to Jaime is "You sound like the opposite of who you are (weak), and incidentally, that's the opposite of who I am to (woman, shorthand for weak)."

On a darker note: Step one, cut a hole in the box/Step two, put your mage in a box ...

I have to agree, WillH--your painting really captures the tone and mood.

Thinking about the Sansa/Hound scene, and after a rewatch, I'm actually glad they left out the song. Firstly, in a very battley episode, there were long stretches of talk: Cersei and Sansa, Cersei and Tommen, Tyrion and Varys, Tyrion and Bronn, Sansa and Shae, opening scene with Tyrion and Shae. I think that late in the battle when things were getting really dire, it would have slowed things down. But more importantly, while it worked in the drawn-out pace of the book, it would not have translated well to the compressed hour and the visual aspect of TV. I mean, hasn't poor Sansa been bullied enough by the Lannister monsters? "Kiss my sword," "You're gonna get raped," "The man who chopped off your father's head is going to chop off yours," "Sing for me." Cripes, the poor little creature's mind would have cracked in two. At that point, I would have run into the throne room and licked the poison off the floor to get away from their constant humiliating demands.

Oh, p.s., halfway through the episode, my viewing companion sneered, "So it's 'Saving Private Tyrion'." Remind me not to watch with smallfolk.

Hey, American viewers. In case it hadn't occurred to you yet, you have the day after Blackwater off for Memorial Day. :cheers: What will you be drinking?

A light Arbor gold.

Can anyone tell me who Theon's Bronn-looking right-hand nastyman is in the book?