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BlueDragon

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  1. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP510 Discussion

    They have killed off too many characters to mount a serious resistance to the WW if both Jon and Stannis are dead. And Dany was supposed to have Drogon by her side when the Dothraki road up. I don't like that blinding Ayra was punishment, not training. boooooooo too many dead character make for no story at all. Jon has to survive somehow. At this rate there won't be a single person who can warn Danny about the WW
  2. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    Soldiers in war often learn that both sides are beyond redemption. That is reality. I watched most of this series without caring who won the battles. I will care about the WW vs. Jon/Dany and whomever. I can't see the show or books ending without Jon/Dany; therefore, Jon is not dead (with or without Martin's ironic question regarding Jon). But caring about Stannis vs. Ramsey? I will be invested in what comes out of that conflict, not the conflict. And no one will sit the iron throne for any significant time in the future.
  3. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    There is no reason that Stannis can't prevail in the Winterfell battle and still be in a position where he believes he must sacrifice Shireen later in the book narrative. Martin has thousands of pages in which to accomplish this. D&D spoiled the books in their recap, but they have already spoiled the books in the show, e.g. Tyrion is already with Dany and they are setting up to end the season with Jon either killed for real and/or revived in Season 6. D&D are forcing thousands of pages into far too few shows and not making wise decisions. That doesn't mean that they are deviating from the overall plot line. What would be the payoff for doing that? Martin chose to go forward with this project. He must have known the show would outpace his writing and he chose to travel a lot and participate in show related stuff rather than write. There are many ways to make Stannis clearly responsible for Shireen's death whether he is right by her side or not.
  4. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    I have never particularly liked Stannis, but I don't see him as the most evil and selfish character for burning his child. He is a rigid thinker. Nothing else about his psychology is nearly as dominant as his rigidity. In his mind, Shireen was the sacrifice he had to make to save Westeros. Both my favorite shows have made the same error in the past two weeks: pushing a character through a crisis too fast. We needed to see Stannis struggle with his decision. Even 30 seconds of a change on his face would have helped. I don't want to rank horrors, but torture is not the same as killing. It just isn't. Torture is MUCH worse than killing and always has been. If anything, the torturous aspect of burning is the worst of what he did to Shireen. A clean death like the one Ned gave Lady would have been far preferable. But the red god is only interested in burning as I understand it, right? Killing your child is not the worst kind of evil, sorry to say. Read Medea. The Greeks saw the tragedy in her murder of her children. She wasn't the worst evil possible.
  5. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    We are moving past the books. This was going to happen. Readers/viewers have the right to make certain characters their favorites but such choices always reveal something about said individuals. Anyone favoriting Ramsey scares the crap out of me. Fans believing anyone will sit the iron throne at the end of all of this have a strange world view given that virtually every character is grey. There are few characters I could back for any kingship/queenship in this world and none without some concern for both the character and those inhabiting this world. Jon is perhaps the least tainted, but he did abandon Yigrite and he his heart is horribly divided.
  6. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    You are kidding. This is the worst misreading/projection I have ever seen. And by the way, Outlander created a stunning finale episode (at least until they cured Jaime in like ten minute of screentime). The acting was Oscar worthy.
  7. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    thank you except there is simply never going to be one 'big bad' in this narrative. there always will be characters whose actions are at one point horrendous and at another admirable in some way. that is the author's philosophy and chosen point of view. why can't readers and viewers accept this as what they have signed on for? the boltons, the freys, the lannisters, whomever are never going to be the ultimate big bad. if any group has a chance at that it is the white walkers. and I was never a big fan of book Stannis. show Stannis is somewhat more tolerable, but there is no way I ever thought he was heroic material. no ranking horrors is something we don't want to get into, but for me the worst human creature in the story has to be Ramsey. and I agree, Roose would flay Ramsey on a moment's notice if it were to benefit him.
  8. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    Stannis was never going to be a good guy. Readers who thought that were revealing something about themselves. It certainly isn't in the narrative. He feels he has never received his due. He will do anything to be in control. Now, the show script may not have developed his transition at the moment he sees he is about to starve outside of Winterfell, but the logic concerning his burning Shireen fits with his behavior to date. Killing his brother with a shadow baby. Come on. The worst his little brother did was challenge him: don't challenge Stannis. He doesn't react well to losing face even. I'm not entirely surprised. The show's pacing is way off, but I doubt very much D&D would have allowed Stannis to do this if it did not fit with where the books are going. People are going to be massively disappointed if they think the books will be fundamentally different from the show in the end. There may be many short cuts, but the whole point of the initial meeting D&D had with Martin was to make sure they understood his central themes. No one is good or bad in these books. Everyone is a mix. The more characters contradict their earlier actions, the more Martinesque they become. No one will hold the iron throne. Humans may not even survive. I'd expect darn near anything. Isn't that what most readers say?
  9. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP509 Discussion

    Well, the worst thing about this is the fact that fire is HER weapon, so for a second, I thought she started the fires. Maybe she allowed Ramsey to succeed so that Stannis would be desperate enough to burn Shireen.
  10. BlueDragon

    [Book Spoilers] EP507 Discussion

    How the hell do you know? We can't even get decent statistics now; we sure don't have them for earlier historical periods. Not to mention the fact that women like sex and that love stories are as old as the hills. The "dark ages" weren't all that dark according to recent scholarship. I am beyond sick of the "historical justification for rape" line of many GOT fans. Rape is common today. There is no real reason to see it as more common in earlier times.
  11. I love this show. I am ridiculously addicted to this show and this narrative as a whole. D&D constantly waste screen time with unnecessary embroidery, which might be nice if they had the time and budget, but they do not. Every single episode this season wasted time on fluff or boobs or whatever when so many critical elements need time to be developed. I don't care if next week is 65 minutes, it will feel like 15 and we won't even have time to respond emotionally. Jaime confesses to Tyrion, Tyrion climbs through the walls and kills Shae and Tywin Jaime and Cersei have some private time. Why? Tyrion escapes; Varys disappears Arya and the Hound do something critical AND Arya gets on a boat to Bravos Bran gets to the tree and learns his destiny (that is a movie in itself) Jon treats with Mance and Stannis comes to the rescue. Sam and Gilly do something significant. Dany discovers Drogon is eating little girls. Dragons are locked up except for the worst perpetrator. I am sure there is a lot more that I have left out. Why kill most of Jon's supporters before he becomes commander? Pip and Grenn were nicely developed characters. Now, Jon is alone at the wall except for Sam. Adding stuff while not giving us a full hour is inexcusable. I am sure there is stuff on the cutting room floor that would help satisfy some of this. Very frustrating. In one week, I will be in withdrawal again.
  12. Yes, next season will include a fair amount of WOW and the show is going to finish before the last novel is out. George will probably change the story up, but for me, I am just happy that I get to see a version which is obviously sanctioned by the author.
  13. I get that, but slavery is a real issue in the show and many on this blog want to 'justify' all sorts of things that happen in this narrative with the line 'it was like that in the Middle Ages' (which I find dubious, at best, but no matter at present). And narrative exists to teach humans how to be human and what to do and what not to do. So what the show and book narrative teaches us couldn't be more important. Also, lots of people want to condemn Dany for her mistakes while they redeem everyone from Jaime to the Hound to Stannis. I think discussing all of this is relevant on the main threads.
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