Skahaz mo Kandaq

Look back on Sansa's past. 

Very well.  Sansa is not smart BUT she's not evil.  She's not mean-spirited.  The teasing she did to Arya and calling her HORSEFACE doesn't count as mean-spirited to me.  I give Sansa credit for compassion.  She had compassion for Dontos.  But I'm afraid she might murder Sweetrobin if Littlefinger and Harry tells her to.  She could do it because love screws with Sansa's mind and Harry could demand this of her. 

On 8/18/2023 at 8:02 AM, maesternewton said:

If Aegon the Conqueror was able to obtain Harrenhal and depose Harren without burning it, or even decide to rebuild it. Would it have been a better decision to make Harrenhal the Capital while merging the Riverlands with the Crownlands?

Access to the sea and the Free Cities have benefits.  The location of King's Landing gave them those advantages. 

Who poisoned the locusts and who was the target?  It is one of the most interesting mysteries in aSoIaF.  My suspicion is on Hizdahr.  A man from the culture who declined to enjoy the local delicacy is strange.  The intended target was Daenerys.  Belwas and his appetite saved the Queen. 

The Starks are selfish traitors.  Somewhere in Walder's heart he wanted to believe this Robb Stark was a better person than the boy turned out.  However, the reason people like Frey trusted him was because he had little in the way of options.  The Starks had an army camped outside his castle.  What was the old man to do?  He had to deal.  He made the choice he thought would bring the best security and gain for his family. 

Daenerys is not fully sure of their loyalties but she is giving them the benefit of the doubt.  That's one of the traits I love about Daenerys.  She has maturity and intelligence beyond her age.  She needs the men and therefore gives them the benefit.  Skahaz is one of my favorite people too.  His story and what little we know of his backstory can be a story in themselves.  I would happily read a backstory of Skahaz and find it more interesting than another Dunk and Egg.  Reznak mo Reznak is more than likely also loyal to Dany.  Reznak's culture comes out from time to time but it doesn't mean he is not supportive of Dany's administration.  A wise ruler like Dany will listen to opposing viewpoints and consider their merits.  Which she does credibly. 

@Lord of Raventree Hall

Viserys was not a psychopath.  To the best of our knowledge, he has never committed murder despite the stress and challenges he was facing.  The Prince was a bully and had a short temper.  But that does not make him one.  Arya is a psychopath.  The author said so during one of his interviews.  It was the author's intentions to create Arya as a psychopath and it doesn't matter whether that fits your listed criteria. 

Okay, Bowen Marsh and the other guys had to have questioned Jon's competence and continued ability to lead the Night's Watch.  Understandable given Jon's decisions with regards to the Wildlings and aligning himself with the rebel lord Stannis.  But those concerns were not the reasons for the assassination.  Jon was going to lead his savages to war against Ramsay Bolton.  That and only that was the reason for his assassination.  And Bowen Marsh was right to do it.  

Assassinating your leader is illegal.  It is an act of treason.  That is why Bowen Marsh and Jaime Lannister are often compared.  They compare favorably in many ways.  They were serving men who they have to remove from power before the situation goes out of control.  Jon was out of control and Bowen did what he did to stop him.  Jon was guilty of treason already for sparing Mance and sending him to Arya.  

16 hours ago, Damsel in Distress said:

While it is possible for Rhaegar to have fathered Jon,  it is very unlikely that he is legitimate.  Consider the other possible parents for Jon and he is still lacking legitimacy. 

Ned Stark + Daughter of a Fisherman = bastard Jon

Ned Stark + Ashara Dayne = bastard Jon

Mance Rayder + Lyanna Stark = wildling bastard Jon

Brandon Stark + Lyanna Stark = bastard Jon

Brandon Stark + Ashara Dayne = bastard Jon

Rhaegar + Lyanna = royal bastard Jon

Ned Stark + Wyla = bastard Jon

Arthur Dayne + Lyanna Stark = bastard Jon

Polygamy is not an accepted practice.  Aegon married both his sisters before the conquest began.  While it is possible for Ned to have married Ashara, he later married Catelyn.  This scenario makes Catelyn's children the bastards.  I doubt this is the case.  It is also possible for Brandon to have married Ashara, in which case Jon would be legitimate but then why would Brandon agree to marry Catelyn.  It doesn't make sense.  I can see Brandon doing something idiotic but too many people would have known and objected.  Rhaegar was already married to Princess Ellia of Dorne.  He cannot legally marry Lyanna even if he wanted to.  Rhaegar was not the king and he doesn't have the authority to approve polygamy nor did he have the power to legitimize a bastard.  Arthur Dayne was a member of the Kingsguard.  He could not marry without first giving up the job.  Rhaegar doesn't have the authority to give a Kingsguard permission to marry. 

Robb Stark can't legally make Jon legitimate.  Robb failed to create an independent North.  The North can only be independent from Westeros if the Starks had been successful in their rebellion.  They failed.  The Starks became landless and without a home after the Ironborn took Winterfell.  Robb was lord of nothing.  They formally lost their castle and land when Roose Bolton was made Warden of the North. 

My verdict?  Jon is a bastard

Jon is a bastard.  Whose bastard is the often asked question.  I believe Mance Rayder and Lyanna Stark are his parents.  

On 1/15/2023 at 8:47 PM, Sydney Mae said:

The Tully sisters went mad.  Catelyn Tully-Stark and Lysa Tully-Arryn were showing signs of madness and emotional fragility.  Lysa had it from her youth to her death.  Catelyn lost it at the wedding.  She cut Aegon Frey's throat and killed him.  Catelyn went mad that minute.  There is insanity in the Tully blood.  Robb, Sansa, Arya, Bran, and Rickon are half Tully.  Cat's brood inherited the gene predisposing them to insanity.  I know stress can trigger the disease.   

Lysa's own son is suspiciously under-developed.  Indulgence and over-protection alone cannot explain Robert's odd manners.  

On 1/17/2023 at 3:08 PM, The Commentator said:

Dany is very mature for a girl who would have recently gotten her driver’s license in our time.  Obviously she is smarter than Robb and Jon. 

The Baratheon boys had their chance but failed miserably.  The Lannisters also failed the people.  Jon failed at the wall.  Westeros will need a strong leader like Dany to bring order and peace.  

Jon will have a cold heart when he comes back because it will be the white walkers' magic that turns him into an ice zombie.  His nature is not really cool.  Jon is hot tempered, erratic, and impulsive.  All those qualities you don't want in a leader.  He wasn't killed for having a cold heart.  He was killed for being a dangerous idiot with an insane plan to attack the Boltons.  Liking or disliking the Boltons should have no part at all when it comes to the duties of the NW.  

The biggest sore loser is Catelyn Stark.  She murders an innocent young man out of hate and spite.  

On 1/19/2023 at 11:47 AM, Moiraine Sedai said:

The Tully sisters definitely have the genes for going mad. Most people during those violent feudal times experience hardships and tragedy. Most do not go mad. The Tully sisters did go mad. Catelyn passed this gene down to Arya.  

It's hereditary.  The Tully girls inherited it from their ancestors and passed it on to their children.  

Putting Jon and Arya together and at least one city in Westeros is guaranteed to burn.  

It is a little sad but Martin has been setting up the Freys for a huge suffering.  Some of the men deserve the punishment for breaking guest rights and their direct role in the red wedding.  Most of the Freys are innocent.  The Freys deserve to keep the Twins and the bridge.  They deserve to keep their assets.  Punish the wedding planners but leave the others unharmed.  

On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

Yes

2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Where are you getting this idea that Arya is innately 'dark'? Because it isn't suggested by the text. Arya is fine until her family gets killed. Only after being isolated and manipulated by the FM does she show 'darkness'.

Reform for Arya is not impossible, especially given her young age.

What mental illness?

Arya has shown signs of being highly excitable and emotionally volatile before going to the FM.  I do not have the books with me at this time but you can look up her conversation with Ned Dayne.  The lad was politely telling a story and Arya became hostile.  It was unprovoked.  Arya composes a list of people she wants to kill and even fantasizes about it.  That's crazy in itself.  

On 12/21/2022 at 12:32 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Merry Chrismas.  May the Lord bless you and keep your family safe during this holiday season.  

Daenerys Targaryen is a better ruler and leader than Jon Snow.  We are all familiar with their leadership styles.  There is enough information for us to pass judgment on who the better leader is.  I will start with Jon Snow.

Jon Snow

Jon is far from the worst leader in A Song of Ice and Fire.  He is actually capable most of the time.  His biggest strength as a leader is his ability to teach.  Jon was able to teach the other less-fortunate cadets the proper use of the sword in combat.  Yes, he was an arrogant and entitled fool when he arrived.  A little man to man talk with a seasoned man helped open his eyes.  Many of the fans praise Jon for protecting the craven cadet, Samwell Tarly.  It is a well-earned praise.  Samwell would have died from fright if Jon had not stepped in and helped. 

I have established that Jon Snow is basically an average guy who has had good training in the fighting arts.  As a leader, he is usually capable of performing his job.  However, he has big problems beneath his exterior.  Many of the fans have already brought it up repeatedly.   Jon has a chip on his shoulders.  Push that chip and he goes ballistic.  He is guilty of attacking Ser Alliser Thorne, a man of higher rank and status.  He has anger management issues which culminated in the inappropriate way in which he judged two guilty men, Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.  By every laws of the land, it should have been the deserter and traitor, Mance Rayder, who was executed.  Matters went downhill from there.  He sent the deserter and turncloak to bring his sister to him at the Wall.  This is an act of war against Roose and Ramsay Bolton.  The Night's Watch should never, and never has until now, make war against the people of The Seven Kingdoms. 

I served in the military for a significant part of my early adult life.  I have never been tested in the same way as Jon was with Arya.  I will say there are a lot of men who would do as Jon did.  They would forsake their duties, no matter how critical it is, to save their sisters.  But there are still more who would do their duties and accept that they cannot help their sisters.  For proof, you only have to look at those men who are in the business of rescuing and saving people and property.  Many men would rather be at home with their families during an emergency crisis but instead they stay at their posts and do their jobs.  I knew people who went to Kuwait while they had desperate families back home.  Parents battling cancer.  Wives struggling to raise handicapped children alone.  I could go on and on.  The point is, it is not unreasonable nor is it rare for people to do their jobs even when they have critical family concerns back home.  And those men who can't do this should never be in command.  It's fine for desk jockey to always sacrifice his duties for his families.  But that is not acceptable for a commander of an organization who has been tasked with the protection of the kingdom from an existential threat. 

Quorin Halfhand said something in book 2.  He said of Mance Rayder, he was the best and the worst of us.  He had trouble obeying.  Jon is very much like Mance Rayder.  In many ways, he is the ideal black brother.  But he is also the worst possible.  Jon is a man gifted with martial skills.  He is a smart young man who usually makes sound decisions.  I don't think his inability to judge and prioritize will matter much with the Wildlings.  To the Free Folk, whatever the strong man says is right is right.  Might makes right with the Wildlings.  Jon does not have to be fair, nor consistent.  Laws among the Wildlings are not as well-defined. 

Daenerys Targaryen

Princess Daenerys Targaryen began the story a scared and nervous young girl.  Forced to marry into an alien culture, she used her natural intelligence to thrive.  Courage, intelligence, and determination allowed her to adapt to the Dothraki culture.  She brought the dragons back from extinction.  She had the smarts and the courage to lead her khalasar beyond the Red Waste until they reached Vaes Tolorro.  This is nothing less than remarkable for a girl of her age.  She defeated the Undying in the Palace of Dust with the help of her dragon, Drogon.  Over and over, Daenerys has managed to use her intelligence and her cunning to outmaneuver her adversaries.  She has become a very good player of the game of thrones with a style all her own. 

Queen Daenerys has become the conqueror and the ruler of the slaver city of Meereen.  She knows what we know.  As humans, we have a responsibility to make laws and judge the guilty.  The Meereenese masters perpetrated the most heinous war crime in the entire saga so far.  This is many times more heinous than the Red Wedding in The Twins.  The masters crucified the children of their slaves and used them to decorate the road to the city.  This kind of crime cannot go unpunished.  To do so would be to deny justice to those children.  Allowing the Meereenese to bring forth the guilty is a modern concept of peers judging peers.  It is certainly preferable to the arbitrary trial of combat being practiced in Westeros.  She is facing an enemy who refuse to fight her troops in open combat.  And yet, she refused to execute her cup bearers.  This was a smart move.  Those children can be socialized and educated away from their slaver parents.  These children will be the foundation of a free Slaver's Bay. 

The situation in Meereen is very complicated.  Skahaz, Reznak, and Hizdahr are unreliable allies.  Daenerys has been warned to be careful by Quaithe.  Yet, she reacts with reason and caution.  Cersei would have had them all killed.  But a good leader knows that you have to trust people.  Everything carries a risk.  One person cannot manage a city of the size of Meereen.  Jorah's betrayal is revealed.  Daenerys wisely did not kill the man and instead sent him into exile.  Daenerys is a reflective, thoughtful person.  Which is a good quality for someone who has to make decisions.  She has some learning to do but her potential as a ruler is without limits.  I would choose her to rule Westeros.  

She is a great ruler of men.  I want her to inherit Westeros and rebuild in the aftermath of the long winter.  

On 12/8/2022 at 5:34 AM, Craving Peaches said:

That is exactly what you can do. Place Arya in a proper environment for a 9 year old and I guarantee she would not still be trying to murder people. Remove the influence of the Faceless Men and she improves drastically.

You can put Arya in a better environment and she will still be the same person inside.  Arya was born with the propensity to go dark.  The trauma pushed her ever darker.  But she will not go back to being good.  The blood stains and the sins will always be there inside that heart.  The severity of her mental illness will fluctuate and it will always show up.  

On 12/3/2022 at 8:58 PM, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

To all participants, I am grateful for your comments.  Just please keep the discussion and disagreement civil.

With that out of the way, let's talk. 

The books suggests Arya is getting worse.  What the old woman saw strongly suggests Arya will murder a lot of people.  The book does not suggests Arya will get well.  The book does not suggests Arya will stop murdering. 

On 12/4/2022 at 5:06 AM, Craving Peaches said:

The book does not suggest Arya will happily murder the whole of King's Landing. Sorry.

Take a look where Arya currently stand.  You can take Arya away from the darkness.  But you cannot take the Darkness away from Arya.  She has become darker and darker with each murder.  

On 10/29/2022 at 10:41 AM, Kierria said:

Sweetrobin is slowly being poisoned.  It is not yet a crime of murder because the child is still alive but Sansa is part of the insidious plot to murder the child and take all that is his.  Will Sansa go through with the murder?  The odds are close to even but does lean lightly to Sansa doing the crime. 

Look back on Sansa's past and tell me what you think.  Tell me what you think will happen. 

She will murder the child.  Sansa is a big idiot.  This is another decision which she will regret.  Not because of compassion but because it will end very badly for her.  

On 10/24/2022 at 11:32 PM, Only 89 selfies today said:

From our favorite author himself.  Listen to what George said about Dany's Unsullied soldiers.  This should put away all doubts as to how well they will do in Westeros.  The Unsullied will be superb in battle.  They will be better with the addition of the Dothraki.  Dany will have the advantage in battle in Westeros.  

The arguments that The Unsullied are ineffective soldiers do not hold water.  

 

 

That answered the question and won the debate for your side.  You can lead most horses to water and they will drink.  There are some who would rather die of thirst.  

I am almost sure of it.  Sansa will kill Robert Arryn.  By poison or strangulation doesn't matter.  Sansa will do this for personal gain.  She is known as a bastard and it will be hard to prove otherwise.  Her only way to power is through Littlefinger.  He wants to remove Robert Arryn and he will convince Sansa to do it.  

On 10/25/2022 at 6:44 AM, astarkchoice said:

To be fair it always went without saying theyd need to be supported , dany had barely under 10k.of them and thats before the mereen  insurrection...even before we talk testosterone, armour,weapons or tactics its simply  too small a force to do anything in westeros on its own!!

Westeros is not going to have many fit men of the right age available.  Winter and war has ravaged the land.  People are dying on the battlefields.  The Unsullied will have the Dothraki to help them.  Two or three large khalasars will be more than Westeros could handle.

On 2/22/2022 at 9:29 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

I want to shine a ray of hope for the Frey family and their supporters.  The Freys will not all die.  I do not believe they will all die and they do not deserve to.  But this cannot be said with certainty because I am not Martin.  The fate of House Frey will depend on who holds power.  If it's the Starks, it's goodnight to House Frey.  We already know what Arya Stark would do. Murder all of the Freys she can.  Arya is just demented enough to poison the entire family.  At least she would make the attempt.  The family will fare no better if it's Jon Snow who gets to decide their fate.  Jon was not a forgiving man even before he was assassinated.  He will be thirsting for Bolton, Marsh, and Frey blood when he returns. 

There is hope for the Freys.  The following passage is a quote from one of Daenerys Targaryen's chapters in A Clash of Kings. 

Farther on she came upon a feast of corpses. Savagely slaughtered, the feasters lay strewn across overturned chairs and hacked trestle tables, asprawl in pools of congealing blood.  Some had lost limbs, even heads.  Severed hands clutched bloody cups, wooden spoons, roast fowl, heels of bread.  In a throne above them sat a dead man with the head of a wolf.  He wore an iron crown and held a leg of lamb in one hand as a king might hold a scepter, and his eyes followed Dany with mute appeal.

This is a scene from the red wedding and the man asking for justice is Robb Stark.  Daenerys Targaryen will take control of Westeros and ascend to her father's throne.  The throne which is hers by right.  The Starks will demand revenge on the Freys and might even make it a condition to peace.  Daenerys will moderate with objectivity, intelligence, and thus fairness.  She will restrain the Starks from carrying out a complete destruction of the Freys.  Lame and Black Walder will lose their heads to the axe.  The lord of the house, Walder, will be spared because of his age.  A few of the sons may also receive the death penalty.  But at least the Frey family will remain largely intact. 

 

The security of the House is dependent on the Lannisters and the latter's hold on the throne.  The Starks and the northerners will butcher them if the Lannisters were to show any signs of weakness.  The Lannisters will go down because they have too many enemies.  The cold of the Starks will creep into the riverlands soon after that.  The Freys may be saved and something close to justice will be carried out if Daenerys can get to Westeros in time to prevent the Starks from indiscriminate butchery.