lakin1013

I do agree with you and others making this point. But Harwin is not entirely without his influence: genes, daily contact, intelligence, and love. Everytime I see Rhaenerya's children, I think what wonderful DNA Strong must have had. Those boys are good looking, sturdy kids who seem to be well-adjusted. We also have the shoulder touch and small correction to one of the boys from Harwin out in the training area, showing that Harwin was supportive with them on a daily basis, a male father figure in addition to Laenor's love of his not-his children. The later shots show one learning high valyrian, & one learning to read. In other words, they seem to have some intelligence. We also know when Harwin & dad went home, the parting was painful between Rh and Harwin. If Rh went shopping for a Laenor stand-in, she made a good purchase. In my opinion, for a under-developed character, he left a very positive mark.

She is pregnant again, carrying his 2nd? 3rd (it is third, right?) child. Are you referring to his passion to her or to life in general because clearly they engage each other. I cannot tell if I missed something in the show?

Are you saying that Rhaenyra was in on the beheading -- in the book? In order to solve the Driftmark inheritance issue or some other reason? As a viewer, we did see her thinking about what she should do but I did not think she was involved in the violence at all.

8. I thought this episode was terrific and I am a low grader. How do I know that? I was sitting on the floor, leaning in, and replaying each conversation, if muffled, to make sure I heard it clearly. Viserys in his decline was wonderfully acted. So much information was given to us: Rh and her self-reflection, Rhaenys deciding on what argument to make, Daemon given to quicksilver actions, and Viserys trying to make sure he said what was important in his heart before his death. What a good episode.

I idly wondered if Daemon turned all the eggs over? I have no support except for, of course, knowing Daemon's character, but he seemed surreptious and quick to offer 'some number' of eggs.

Perhaps I misremember but I thought her agreement to the marriages came after the dude who was causing her grief was beheaded. No?

I thought it was all in the wording. Rh said "I was not involved in any plot to kill Laenor." Which, of course, she can say truthfully because Laenor was not killed. At least is what I thought I heard.

n/m

I think there were 2 key moments in this ep. 1. Alicent "I have no friends" turned into Bitch Alicent "I have no friends" and cut Rh. At one moment, the characters seem to take up sides, physically. From above, the camera shows us that Rh has her father in law, Daemon, herself, and her two boys. Alicent has nobody, then her father. Cole was held back. All the talk of blood at the funeral played itself out with Alicent playing with the weaker hand and the less pure blood. It also showed the triangle weak Viserys allowed to exist between himself, Alicent, and Rh. 2. The second was the plot to get rid of Laenor. I got it, understood it, and approved of it, but I could not get beyond the utter grief of his parents, losing a second child so soon after the first. Heartbreaking. I am annoyed that Aemond got away with being a shit when there were 4 witnesses who could report that he was violent and abusive. It also made me wonder about who is the better mother because Rh's boys seemed pretty sturdy to me and well loved. The rest underlined what we already knew -- Larys is poison, Otto H is a sniveling creep, Viserys is weak and sick, and Daemon and Rh were always going to happen. I give it a 6.

I waited a bit thinking my discomfort with the ep would subside. I was reading some reviews and one used the term 'without showing its work'. I think this is true. 1. Rh has been having a 10 yr affair and up til now, it hasn't either been noticed, or nobody cared? ok 2. Criston took apart and murdered Joffrey in plain sight and now he is coach for the royal children ok 3. 'I have no friends' Alicent keeps whining. ok 4. Pregnant, in pain, trying to give birth, and surrounded by attendants, Laena gets up, dresses, walks out of her room, through the castle, down the steps, and across the beach to become wilful toast. ok 5. So Otto is fired for trying to besmirch Rh, but Lyonel is forbidden to quit, and allowed to take Rhs BFF back home ok 6. Larys gets a killing team together, takes them on a killing mission, yet first, before anything, he cuts out their tongues. And if the slightest thing went wrong in the killing mission, were they supposed to do charades? ok 7. 'I have no friends' Alicent whines to poisonous Larys, who then prompty orders the tongueless to kill the dudes and she says -- OH NO, I didn't mean you should do that. Sure. ok 8. Apparently, the people killed by the tongueless were Larys's father and brother. Do we know why he did that? Book readers will know, but shouldn't viewers only at least be reminded or told why, a clue even? ok 9. Apparently, Daemon is not impotent. ok And now genetics. A Targaryen marries a Hightower and gets two standard issue Targs for chidren. A Targaryen screws a House Strong guy and gets two brown headed, ordinary kids. Why? I give it a 5. It is good, interesting, or horrid to look at, who doesn't like dragons, and the music is good. I just feel like they are rushing to get someplace and I don't know why.

I must had missed that. I remember him, under the tree, dagger drawn, following the directions in the Kings Guard Motto Book and Alicent stopped him. I thought he was going to off himself because he had no future in the KG. Surprise, it was OK that he killed somebody in plain view. Later, we see that the murdering KG is training the kings kids. Sure!

While I quote you, several others have expressed this exact thing. My question is - is Alicent completely incapable of making friends, at all? Are there no young noble ladies in the realm? She is the queen, for goodness sakes. We saw some of her staff, and the nanny. Does she not speak with them? Is she not able to make friends in the kitchen staff? I don't mean 'make friends' like let's have lunch, but friends to increase the gossip streams, find out what everybody is talking about, build some goodwill, and perhaps, just in case, find out how to make or obtain moon tea. She seems like such a flat character. Is this the way Martin wrote her? Characters like Arya, Cersei, and Brianne were vivid. (I understand coming up she will change.) But I notice folks tend to take up for her, and as a viewer, I find her like Flat Stanley. I am not suggesting the character be changed or altered from the book, but based on the show I imagine a full-size cardboard cutout of Alicent with notes on that say -- passive and trapped, will change soon. And, that seems to be what we have been given. BTW, the actress is doing a fine job.

Please share how we would know Cole was suicidal. Sure his 'let's eat oranges and be poor together' proposal fell flat. Sure, he looked put-out at the wedding, as would anyone. But what are the hints he was suicidal?

Odd that. I didn't think she even really liked her husband. I concluded she felt him dull. I also think sometimes parents do things for one child and don't mention it to the second wife, or stepmother. I do agree the moon tea pushed her over. But again, if she had made a friend of the kitchen staff, after bearing that one son, she could have stopped having any more kids (something Cersei would have done). She just seemed so passive and trapped to me. Rh, bitch that she is, is at least lively. Based on posts here, Alicent will change soon. Good, I guess.

I am unclear why Alicent is not trusting Viserys. She knows for a fact that her father got wrong information and got fired for it. She knows Rh did not have sex with Daemon. Sure, Rh was not forthcoming with the actual truth, but she answered the questions as were posed. She knows Viserys sent the moon tea to Rh just to be careful. I felt he did that out of self-interest and protecting his daughter. Why would Alicent suddenly not trust her husband?

One thing I realized after this episode is that there is nobody to root for, nobody to follow with interest, and cheer on. Because I cannot not compare GOT to HOD, I realized in GOT there were many characters worth following, right from the first 2-3 episodes. In this show, we can pick weak king, homicidal maniac, ruthless young lady, or dutiful wife (but not for long) and a variety of other lessor folks. I can also compare this to Rings of Power which also presented characters worth knowing, like Nori, Durin, and Arondir. I realized that I don't really care about any of these characters and I wonder, why watch? Does anyone else feel this way?

5. Parts of this ep were really well done but viewers are being forced to construct motivations of the characters. Count me among those who think Alycent was jealous of Rh getting away with so much while she has to lie under a man rotting from within. Of course, the show does not exactly tell us that, but she does wear a green dress. One spoken line describes the green meaning. Too bad if you missed it. Boy howdy, Viserys is IN trouble at home. Daemon is now full-on homicidal maniac. He murders his wife. Why? Other than her being a full-on bitch to him, the show hints that perhaps he is in love with Rh. Or perhaps his wife has lands to inherit. Or perhaps it is something else entirely. The show specifically mentions the inheritance and the show specifically mentions Daemon wanting Rh to run off with him. Choose your own ... Indeed, Sir Cole also wants Rh to run away with him. And her entire speech about being the crown, from somebody who has shown little interest in the ruling aspects, was entirely unbelievable. Are we to assume that Rh has suddenly become interested in the welfare of the people, the throne, and the importance of ruling. Or did she make it up on the spot. We already know she is good at that. Finally, Sir Cole brutally murders the bff of Laenor, the new groom. Deliberately, purposefully, beats the living crap out of him. I guess he is in love with Rh but really - has he thought that through? I think not.

I did not understand that at all. Her father got bad information, she knows that now. Her friend did NOT lie to her, as RH did not have sex with Daemon. Rh omitted the actual partner in the deed but she didn't lie. But Alycent seemed particularly pissed about the moon tea. Why? Why is Alycent so pissed off?

It certainly is the last time.

Don't you think that a woman who knew him, who was his wife, would continue insulting him in the bitterest of terms, when she knew what he was capable of? I found this a bit contrived.

Not to drive this into the ground, (except clearly I am going to :-) but these are two major characters. We already know things about them, we can make solid guesses about behavior and feelings. If you go through the posts in the threads for this episode, this whole Daemon/Rh thing has gotten quite a bit of guessing and attention. I actually think we are kicking around a major difference in storytelling. Before I invest my time by paying attention, I want to feel secure in the direction of the story, in the same way Martin asked the hbo dudes the trick questions, ie who was Jon's mother. Either you can tolerate much more ambiguity than I can, or I demand more of a story being told than you do.

I have to disagree, not vehemently, but as a viewer. I do expect that somebody with something to do with this series has some idea about what is true, what idea the director, for example, wants the viewer to come away with. The first time I watched the scene I understood that Daemon was trying to ruin Rh, publicly, in order to marry her and improve his position. He likes her well enough, we can see that. Rh is no shrinking violet. At the very last minute, he stops. Why? I have thoughts. Now, that was my interpretation so naturally I come here to see what others think. I fully expect to find other thoughts, some certainly more learned than mine. BUT if I read 5 or 6 competing explanations (I never considered impotence!) then my confidence begins to waver about the story. And while I understand competing motivations, I do think the director, the words, and the actors should move to make a point. Otherwise, read a 'choose your own adventure' It has to be said that I have not read the book/s other than GOT series (GRRM and I had a falling out :-). I have assumed that Daemon and Rh are main characters. So this moment between them has meaning. The meanings offered by others make up a strange stew. That annoys me. .

Why did you select only authors? If the writer says one thing, the director of the scene says another, and the actor has their own interpretation - then I have to wonder where the story is going

So you watched the show and was going to give it a 9, but since people here can't agree on a scene you decide lower your score No, not because people here can't agree, more because the actors, writers, and directors did not seem to have the same understanding of what Daemon was doing. If they don't know, are we in good hands as viewers?

Initially, I thought this episode was about the human sex drive, or abuse thereof. There was dutiful marital sex, public sex, relative sex, presumed first time sex, a whore who is now an information broker, and finally there was the man who prostituted his own daughter trying to ruin the daughter of another man by claiming she was no longer virginal. The show seemed like a series of small vignettes designed to show sex in life, in politics, in public, and in private and by gender and public position. The mini bits also drew out a character and their motivations or desires. And it did so, except for one thing - Daemon. What was he doing? Others in this thread have suggested Daemon was impotent, too drunk, too ethical, or actually fond of his niece. Posters have supported their comments by referring to after the show, the directors, the writers, the actors, or the books. So what was going on in that one scene and if the directors, actors, writers, and others cannot agree on what was shown, what can we hope for in future episodes? I was going with a 9 as I was entertained throughout until I got to the part where it seems nobody knows what was happening. I will rate it a 6.