Sandsnake820

22 hours ago, Arya Gendry said:

I love how in this show about dragons, white walkers, humans that can enter the bodies of animals, and a couple of people who have returned from the dead, no one can believe for a second that Arya could survive a stab wound. She was blind and regained her sight. She survived countless beatings from the Waif that would have sent any of us to the hospital for weeks. For whatever reason, be it FM magic or some inherited greatness, Arya is special. I believe this was Ja'qen's plan all along. He knew her suffering and he knew her skill and potential. He trained her so that she would be ready when she left, like he always knew she would.

I'm not sure why Varys would go to Oldtown OR Dorne. Dorne has had no ships since Nymeria landed and burned them all. Perhaps Volantis, where Yara and Theon (seemingly) are? 

Tyrion/Grey Worm/MIssandei was so painful. Of all the time wasters, that is the worst. 

I love the Hound, and I have the greatest hope that he will get word of Ramsay's treatment of Sansa and kill him slowly. The Hound, killing the master of hounds...

I didn't hate the episode. I enjoyed the return of Beric and Thoros and the scenes between Jamie/Brienne, Jamie/Edmure, and especially Bronn/Pod. 

 

I'm under the belief that Arya was over exaggerating how hurt she was in an effort to lure the Waif to her where her little hide out was.  Clearly the Waif is no slouch and Arya hasn't exactly won any battles against her.  She played it smart. 

Just now, Chloe.a.thomson said:

I look how Roose Bolton is shocked at the idea of killing the LC.

Roose apparently has more scruples than Thorne.

 

And a boy for Roose!!!

Bye Bye Roose! 

Wait!!!!!  What just happened???

2 minutes ago, Chloe.a.thomson said:

I hope something similar is coming in the books. BookTyrion needs a little happiness.

Yes!!!  I would love that too.

Tyrion the Dragon Whisperer 

Tyrion and Varys are going to feed the Dragons. 

I don't think anyone wanted to box with Wun-Wun

Looks like its a Pyre for Jon

Wun-Wun SMASH!!
 

Hodor=Willis and Willis could talk!

3 minutes ago, Ser Desmond Wine's Bane said:

This ep should create a bit of a stir.

Tower of Joy today????

11 hours ago, Protector of Stokeworth said:

I think the grass showed where the horde was and where Dany had stood. That's how they could find it so easily.

Yes,  It was clear that horses were surrounding her since the grass was trampled in a very distinct shape.

Yessss!!  Here we go!!

I give this episode an 8

Loved the HoBW scenes with Arya and Jaqen. Would have loved to see more but I liked how they portrayed her training with the lying game. I liked how they show Arya actually learning from the lying game and using it to help give the gift of mercy to the suffering girl And they showed the collection of faces! That was great.

Tyrion and Jorah scenes were great as well. I guess I didn't really realize that Jorah didn't know about his father's death.

The Winterfell Wedding was short but I believe it was that way in the books. For the most part, I believe that the scene did what it was intended. Not only did I feel bad for Sansa, but I felt equally bad for Theon despite what he has done. Oohh and I loved how Sansa handled Myranda. Hopefully she'll make use of the info Myranda shared about Ramsay.

KL scenes were all good. The QoT faces off with Cersei. LF scheming with Cersei, Lancel and Margeary facing the wrath of Cersei. Can't wait to see how this plays out.

And then there is Dorne. Nothing positive to say here.....

I saw the Arya getting slapped as she was lying and didn't even realize it. She didn't hate the Hound in the end and Jaqen could sense it even if she couldn't, so to him she was lying.

I believe that Arya purposefully lied which is why she gave the correct answer after being hit. I also think that she thought she was giving the correct answer about the Hound. She's spent so much time hating him! But after being his traveling companion for so long, her heart has softened towards him. She didn't want to admit it to herself. That is why Jaqen say "a little girl lies to herself" or something like that.

I think she was prepared to have sex. She was taking off her clothes, just slowly, and willingly married the guy knowing marriage involves sex. She was just a little shocked that he made Theon stay and watch, and probably not 100% ready for her first time (who is?) compounded by the fact it's with this asshole. It was pretty tame vanilla sex, though, especially compared to what he does to Jeyne Poole and apparently being covered in blood during sex with Myranda from past scenes.

Absolutely. I agree. Sansa was aware that it was time to consummate the marriage. She wasn't prepared for the audience or the roughness. Although she did get a taste of how nasty he could be when they had dinner with his Dad and Walda Frey. Not to mention, Miranda's comments during bath time.

Here's my attempt to be grown up about Sansa's arc.

I don't get why people think that Sansa getting in a bad situation means that her last scene of season 4 doesn't make sense. Character arcs don't go need to learn something, learn it , win. They usually have characters trying many multiple tactics to get to their goal or even repeating the same mistakes over and over until they succeed. A 2 hour movie will usually 4 or 5 different screw ups by the main character before they finally get on the right track so an 8 season epic fantasy season should have quite a few more than that. In real life most people do continually make the same mistakes, get in the same holes and continue the same habits while somebody completely changing the way they react to situations or changing their world view is usually very difficult once or twice in a decade event and fiction reflects this.

I think the trouble is that people have gotten to respect LF too much. This means that Sansa turning into LF 2.0 is not seen as an obviously bad thing in the way that, say, Arya become no one is. Really all the characters on apprenticeship type arcs are being set up to fail and it is just that some are more obvious than others. We know all the time that no matter how well Dany does with organising Meereen she will be leaving but with Jon we don't realise that being leader of the NW is not his ultimate role until his final chapter. Similarly with Sansa we think she is safe because we have not seen the end of her arc but it may well be that what happens in the show with Ramsey is not dissimilar to what happens with Harry. Being smart at politics doesn't stop someone being sexually naive. Wearing a black dress did not turn a teenage girl into a seductress.

I think the rape is not meant to empower her like in some daft Hollywood film but it will change her. It will stop her trusting LF and make her more self-reliant. Hopefully it will drive a wedge between her and LF that no amount of his smarming on his part will be able to heal (and without any "LF killed your father and tried to kill your brother" info dump). I think the show is revealing that the point of Sansa's character was never to become a player (which sounds pretty disgusting and stupid now we have seen the effects of such game playing on a well loved character rather than just a stand in) but to be someone who decides they don't want to play LF and Varys's game and goes their own way. This ties in with Sophie's comments about Sansa wanting to start a new house, she wants to succeed on her merits and forge her own destiny rather than play the Stark card. There's a good chance that Sansa will become more like Stannis, living by his own moral code and not even trying to play the game, rather than LF. It didn't work for Ned because he was ultra-honourable and politically inept but Sansa is neither of those things.

This episode not only showed what a sham and risk arranged marriages are through Sansa's arc but also in Marg's story. Power through marriage is a great dynastic tool just so long as you are not the one in the marriage pact. Even if she had been married to someone who seemed like Mr Nice Guy she would still have been at risk of the same treatment on her wedding night. I think LF and Lysa and Dany and Drogo are relevant here as to how show Sansa might react. LF was disgusted by Lysa, she demanded sex, and threatened his life if he did not give her what she wanted lets not forget, but he put up with it as he had a plan from the start and was just waiting for an opportunity it push her out the moon door. Dany had no idea what she was doing, she had months of living hell until she learned to please Drogo and had to internalise her need to please him to survive as love. From Sophie's comment about Sansa needing to try and understand Ramsay and how to please him we can see she will probably go down the Dany path at first but we also know (as we have been blatantly told) she has a plan and I expect that part of her to win out by the end of the season even if it is just jumping over the wall with Theon to find Stannis. Whatever happens I bet that show Sansa will never see political marriage as an acceptable tool again.

That Vanity Fair article is disgusting. It is either saying that women who have power and agency don't get raped or that women who are raped no longer have power or agency. Seriously some of the anti-show comments are far more messed up about rape than those trying to work out what it means in the show. Does it mean Sansa is stupid because she should have seen it coming? No because, as I have said above, anyone in that situation, no matter how nice the other party seems, is vulnerable to the same thing happening to them. People worrying about Sansa's arc not working now she has lost her virginity or that she might be pregnant. No one was worried about whether Jeyne might be carrying Ramsay's child as she was being beaten or getting frostbite. Neither Cersei, Dany or Lysa had their marriage prospects dented by being a mother. People might also want to remember that in the original story GRRM planned for Sansa to have Joffery's child so it's not completely against her character.

I also want to point out that it is clear from the leaked story outline that GRRM split a lot of his original characters main into three or four different characters as he expanded the story. It may well have been that the original character to have taken Jeyne Poole's role was Sansa but GRRM in the end decided that he wanted her to spend more time around LF. The original story may well have had a young mother Sansa being raped by evil Jaime and we just read the fractured shards of that story. GRRM is repeating is "the same story told differently" thing on his blog again. I would believe him rather than trying to put words in his mouth.

Agreed! :agree: