The Wolves

Realistically the Others should win. Westeros and the world is too divided, stupid and unprepared for them to win. We have dead cold things walking towards main civilization and all eyes and swords are pointed towards that ugly throne. And the two people(Jon and Dany) who are supposed to fight these things are 15yr old. The world should be doomed!

I talk about how Robert was a horrible friend, father, king, person all round but he was surrounded by horrible people. Ned and Jon Arryn along with Stannis and Renly also Cersei and his advisors were enablers. Robert got where he was because no one called him out. He was babied by Arryn and hyped by Ned.

Jaime is the Kingsguard who swore to protect the King and not cuckold the King. But Jaime also made choices. He chose to give his sister three bastard incestuous children and robbed the Kings his heirs. And no Cersei wouldn’t have done it if Jaime disagreed. Cersei is to narcissistic and in love with Jaime to not have his children.

I don’t get what you’re saying. Also what does Ned, the Starks or any of four of his children have to do with Jaime and him sleeping with Cersei?

Jaime had no right to be upset. They are brother and sister and Cersei was always going to be married to someone not her brother. Cersei and Jaime even planned them continuing their incestuous relationship while she married. That’s the reason Jaime became a Kingsguard was to continue his relationship with Cersei while she married to the king and provided heirs. What did Jaime think was going to happen?

I’m not saying that people disliking Rhaenyra is misogynistic, I’m saying that the reasons people don’t think she deserves her throne is because of misogyny. Rhaenyra can be a very unlikable person and that’s fine that people don’t like her. Also Jaime and Cersei share equal blame for the war yet Cersei is always blamed and Jaime excused. I’ll go as far to say that Jaime is more to blame than Cersei but that’s another discussion.

Anyone who doesn’t think Rhaenyra shouldn’t have inherited the throne in book, book readers and even show watchers are misogynistic. That throne was hers and she and hers should have inherited it with out war, death, pain and horrors. Renly sucked, house Baratheon sucks and I’m glad they’re dying out. Anyone who blames Cersei for her role in TWOT5Ks but doesn’t give Jaime his fair share is misogynistic. A lot of characters are interchangeable. Their motivations and old grievances are petty. Viserys Targaryen is one of the most sympathetic characters. He was horrible to Dany but life was so unfair to him. Lyanna did nothing wrong and Rhaegar’s only crime was leaving his wife to run away with Lyanna. I hope Rhaegar and Lyanna was a love story. Cersei is a tedious POV character. Tyrion and Jaime are getting there.

Than I would have probably cared if/when he died. But he wasn’t kindhearted, he was a POS who deserved his death and Cersei deserved that hurt more so eh.

No he didn’t!! He sure didn’t care when Tywin and his men terrorized Kings Landing. He never cared about them ever.

That’s a stretch. Jaime joined the Kingsguard with the intention of screwing his sister and possible future queen. He also lied to Tyrion about his wife. Jaime was shit even as a teen.

Tywin only wanted to marry into the Targaryens for the throne. It wasn’t any obsession with them as a family. Tywin imagined his daughter a queen and blood on that ugly throne. Of course the rebels did worse at running a kingdom. How does a kingdom fall into a civil war after a newly appointed royal family? Someone tell me how you have the makings of a King(Robert had the lineage, power, education, backing of powerful men, etc..) and still manage to fuck it all up? Westeros fell into a civil war because the new king was a drunken idiot who should have died in the crib or been an overlooked second son. The neglect that Robert, Arryn, and even Ned gave to Westeros allowed for the Lannisters to slowly but surely grasp control of that throne. Arryn arranging a marriage between Robert and Cersei was ridiculous. Robert keeping Jaime in the Kingsguard, spending the gold in the treasury, ect… Arryn, Robert, and Ned(my poor Ned)were idiots and got theirs with death in betrayal.

Yep. When you not only deny those innocents justice as King, than dehumanize and finally reward their murderers for that horrific deed then yeah you are responsible.

Ned was an idiot. I don’t absolve him in the part he played in Rober’s Rebellion. From waging war when he could have and should have stayed in the North to declaring that worthless, idiot, useless drunk king is all idiot decisions. And you’re right, everyone who declared Robert king on the Trident is responsible for Elia and her children’s deaths. I’ll also say they have some responsibility in TWOT5Ks also. Also the Targaryens are no different from any other narcissistic lord or king that’s been in Westeros. Tywin’s high opinion of himself and family is higher than any Targs we’ve met in the main story and historically. The Targaryens, Baratheons, Lannisters, Hightowers, Tullys, Freys, Boltons, Martells, Starks, Greyjoys, Marbrands, Arryns, Royce, Tyrells, Valaryons, Farwynd, Eastermont, Dayne, etc….. are all the same lords and kings who’ve thought highly of themselves. The Targaryens didn’t deserve that fall more than any other great house who’ve raped, murdered, tortured, attack, stolen, terrorized, unleashed war and then some. Robert, Arryn, and Ned in their arrogance thought that they could do better and did worse.

Rickard Stark wasn’t a rebel. Arryn, Robert, Ned, Tully, and Tywin are the rebels. Rickard and Brandon Stark didn’t deserve their deaths or Arryns heir. Aerys was wrong to kill the highborns lords. But just because Aerys was wrong it’s doesn’t take away the fact what the rebels did and what atrocities they allowed to happen.

I’ve always criticized Arryn for that. What happened to Elia and her children were what tainted that rebellion. A bunch of men standing around as two children and a women who were brutalized is wrapped in Lannisters’ cloth and presented to the “King”. Arryn stood by and helped to reward that evil while Robert stood over their bodies and dehumanized and dismissed it was beyond anything the Targaryens did. The physical reaction to what was done to Elia and her children is and will always make seethe with hatred and make me team Targaryens in Robert’s Rebellion. The rebels dying the way they did is poetic and just(except Ned who is my favorite character) they all deserved their betrayals and deaths.

Currently reading Bernard Cornwell’s The Winter King, it’s a King Arthur retelling. This has been on my TBR since last year and since the show is coming out this month I wanted to get on it. I’ve heard nothing but great things about this trilogy so I’m excited to read it.

Why wouldn’t Lyanna conceive the world that way. She was a 14 yr old child sold from her father to Robert Baratheon. Her feelings, thoughts, and desires didn’t matter so why should anyone else’s.

Maybe I’m in the minority or just a lone wolf in my opinion but Lyanna owned no one anything. She didn’t owe her house, not her Father, Ned, Or Brandon anything. She sure as hell owed Robert nothing. She owed the people of Westeros less. I will always say Elia and her children were wronged by everyone but Lyanna owed them nothing. Lyanna probably has more blame than I give her. But I don’t think a bunch of men who had thousands at their command is not given their fair share of blame in starting a civil war.

Jon never suffered in Winterfell. Him getting a few looks from Catelyn doesn’t equate to suffering. Also Jon never wanted Catelyn to “adopt” him or be a surrogate mother(where is this coming from?)

What problems did the Starks have with Jon being raised in Winterfell with his siblings? Catelyn is the only one who had a problem with it. She was the one imagining imaginary scenarios about Jon. Jon being raised anywhere but Winterfell with his father and siblings would have benefited Catelyn and Catelyn only. No one is saying that Ned should have thrown himself into a war with Robert, just that Jon deserved to know. Also the irony about Ned going to war with house Baratheon when almost 2 decades later that house’s “heir” killed him and brought nothing but death and destruction to the Starks. The irony.

This man lied to Jon his whole life about his parentage, no matter if it was to protect him. Jon is also hearing this from someone not Ned when Ned had years to tell him. He never told Jon about Lyanna being the one person who knew her best. Jon imaged bad scenarios about his mother when Ned could have put that to rest. Ned handled the Jon situation so horribly sometimes.

Jon has no reason to be upset with Rhaegar and Lyanna. His anger should be directed rightfully at Ned.

Ned should have thrown a fit if Aegon had lived and been sent to the Wall. Aegon getting punished by being sent to the Wall for the sins of Rhaegar or house Targaryen is cruel.

That would be a BS excuse. Robert was the only one who hated the Targs like that. Plus Aegon would have been part Martell not all Targaryen. I still don’t understand the logic or reasoning behind installing Robert as King. The short sightedness is the reason TWOT5KS happened.

No one was aligning with the Lannisters. They have no allies. What would the Lannisters have offered the Reach to align themselves with them? Gold? Power? Status? The Reach had all that and more. The Reach needed the crown and the Lannisters can’t give them that. Also Dorne is not ever aligning with the Lannisters. They raped and murdered Elia, Rhaenys, and Aegon. The Lannisters don’t have any allies. Any relationships they have with other houses is based on coercion, fear, and hatred. The child that is not corrupted from war and any negative feelings should have been king. With Dorne and others to guide him, Aegon could have been a good king(the sad thing is that we could never know).