Blind Beth the Cat Lady

This actually makes a lot of sense. I'm seriously going to have to go through the books again and highlight everything that doesn't seem even slightly important because all of those things end up being clues for important (or at least interesting) stuff later.

This list is great! Is there a list of people with questionable or unknown identities so we can play a matching game? :-D

I'm American, and while I somewhat agree with your assessment of ideas about race in the UK (based on my BBC World News podcasts and other British news I run across), I disagree that the Dany scene has NO problems in regards to being racist-looking. Emphasis on "racist-looking." Especially as readers, we have the whole context of Dany's story and to my interpretation it's not racist. Well, I do think Dany is sometimes racist in her thoughts but in her actions she's largely fair and unbiased towards people of other cultures. (Largely...she is a teenage girl, objectivity and fairness is not the strong suit of her demographic.) However, the way the scene is set up does *look* pretty racist. I'm not sure why they decided to go with that exact visual, because it is definitely problematic for a lot of people.

I mostly loved the episode; kickass scenes with Clan Lannister and Arya finally getting her murder on. I like that they're giving Sam's character a little more agency in the show, it definitely works for the screen. Really, though, the whole episode had me at "Rat Cook." Such a fab story. I actually told it to my unsullied bf beforehand because I thought it was really critical background for the main story, and D&D apparently agree with me. :cheers: There were a few nitpicky things, but I really thought everything was handled well. Not what I was expecting in a lot of scenes, but they were mostly well done and won me over. Only big downer was 50% of Dany's last scene. I'm really torn about it. Watching it, my eyes were tearing up with deep and epic joy while my frontal cortex was saying "um...racist much?" I kept looking furiously for white former slaves, but I only saw one guy. Everybody else was brown/black people worshipping White Lady. It would be an unadulteratedly fantastic scene IF humans didn't have that whole centuries-long history of white people oppressing more colorful people and then setting themselves up as superior benefactors. I don't think Dany's story is racist, it's just the way that scene was visualized. Yeah, Dany was a slave herself...yeah, we know that white people get enslaved in other parts of Essos...but in that scene it's uber-white Dany getting literally held up above a sea of poor, scruffy brown people. Still, I teared up. And then I teared up again when I saw the clip in the "inside the episode" bit. Very weird mental sensation for me. And it could so easily have been fixed by whitening up the crowd and/or making them less worship-y. Anywho, that's my only serious complaint. I took off one point for that and one for how awkward and rushed the Dragonstone pacing felt (could have gotten some of those scenes checked off in earlier episodes instead of showing so much Theon torture porn), but in regards to Dragonston I'm mostly just glad they got it all in. 8/10. Overall quite happy with it.

Yes, that's what I was referring to. For show-only people it's currently completely unclear what has happened to Blackfish, even whether he's dead or alive. I'm sure many are guessing according to your logic, but nothing is known. It's a little thing, but there's so few threads on this forum for non-readers I felt I should say something. Plus I know how easy it is to spoil without realizing--I do it to my bf all the time. :-)

:lol: Nice.

Isn't this a no spoilers/no books thread?

Obviously there were a lot of changes from book to screen in this episode. I gave it a nine, but the point deducted was not for the RW. I think the RW worked perfectly in terms of achieving what it was trying achieve as a scene in a TV show. There were several things from the book, including Cat clawing her face, that I was really not looking forward to. I was afraid the scene would be played for cringe-worthy shock-and-gore horror value, and while it was shocking, I think D&D were trying hard to play it for its tragic emotional value and purposely avoiding certain "horror story" elements. I really approve of this, personally. Also, I think having the terrible, booming music would have run a serious risk of telegraphing too clearly what was about to happen. In the book it just came across as Freys being petty, but since it's episode 9 the audience knows SOMETHING is going to happen (whereas in the book it's just there in the middle, as if it's going to be a stepping stone to a later development) and I think that using the vague-sense-of-dread-inducing elements that a lot of people are disappointed were left out would have very possibly given too much of the game away up front. In conclusion, I give the RW itself a 10/10. However, I had a problem with the Arya-Hound interaction. I think their dynamic in this episode and last episode has been a bit too equal and buddy-ish. We don't get a sense than Arya is in one whit of danger from The Hound, which is quite different from the book. Book Arya wouldn't have talked back to the Hound so much, and Book Hound wouldn't have put up with it if she'd tried. A lot of Arya's character development stems from the fact that she spends so much time being powerless, at Harrenhall, with the Brotherhood, and also with the Hound. And a lot of the Hound's character during this part of the story is him being a total loose cannon. Arya hates him, but she's forced to tread lightly around him. In the show they talk a lot of smack to each other, but mostly it feels like they're just reluctant road buddies who get on each other's nerves rather than a very vulnerable captive and her drunken, murder-y, short-tempered captor. As for Dany's bit...I don't blame anyone for this and didn't deduct any points or anything, but I feel like we're getting to the point where her storyline is going to suffer from not having the funds to make huge set pieces every episode. Everything that happened with her this episode would fit on a sound stage, whereas in the book we frequently get descriptions of Danny looking out over sweeping vistas or up at huge walls and pyramids. We haven't even gotten a look at more than a handfull of Unsullied at one time since they marched out of Astapor. Again, I understand that's how it has to be because it's a TV show and not Lord of the Rings, but the fact that they talk about all these huge armies and cities and then we only see like five people and a few hundred square feet of space at once makes it feel a little surreal and claustrophobic.

Maybe bully is the wrong word...I meant that Tywin gets people to do things not by establishing that these things are actually good ideas but by cowing the people he's dealing with. He certainly doesn't make empty threats, but that's part of it. People do trust him...but mostly they trust him to destroy them if they cross him. When he throws out scathing insults, they are effective not because they are necesarily accurate but because he has such a dominating demeanor. When it comes to judging people and situations he's generally good but also makes important missteps, usually in the form of underestimating the other person. He underestimates Robb in their first battles against each other, although I will admit his other war-related decisions are very "savy and ruthless." Mainly he misjudges people in his personal circle, particularly his children. This comes to a head towards the end of SoS when Jaime flatly refuses to do what Tywin wants and then Tyrion gets the jump on Tywin in the privy. I think Tywin also severly underestimates Cercei's cleverness, ruthlessness, and personal drive, although that misjudgement doesn't end up having severe, direct consequenses for him. There's some other things he doesn't catch on to as well...the Red Viper planning to champion Tyrion and Littlefinger spiriting away Sansa. He doesn't catch on to any aspect of the Joffrey murder conspiracy. So, *in general*, Tywin is savy, ruthless, and effective, but he frequently has blind spots and makes some pretty severe mistakes when it comes to judging certain characters. I'm just afraid his judgement flaws are getting lost in the awesome performance. But I guess when his crows come home to roost next season it will become pretty apparent to everyone. EDIT: I also agree that show Tywin is very true to book Tywin; I just think book Tywin is presented in such a way that his flaws are more apparent.

This brings up something that I'm a little concerned about for the overall arc of the season. Because Charles Dance does such a fantastic job as Tywin and he's so fun to watch, I'm afraid viewers are going to start getting an overly rosy view of Tywin's character. He's actually a really terrible person who frequently misjudges situations and people. He's a world-class bully and a machiavellian ruler. His kids are actually not idiots, he just doesn't give any of them credit for anything, ever. He says (in the show) that he doesn't trust Cercei because she's not as smart as she thinks she is. It's fun to see a smackdown of Cercei, and book readers know that she will turn out to be very hubristic, but the real reason Tywin doesn't give her one shred of respect or approval is because he is Tywin and she is under his power. Tywin condescends to everyone and does his damnest to make everyone around him feel like inferior shit, regardless of their actual intelligence and abilities. THis is most obvious in his treatment of Tyrion, but it extends to everyone. (Except Arya, apparently; loved those scenes, but it was fairly out of character for Tywin. Maybe he just liked her because she was some random girl who surprised him and was so obviously beneath him that he didn't feel the need to belittle her?) Anyway, I can't complain about any individual scene with Tywin, I just think that since he's such a commanding presence it's easy to start to believe what he says about other people and think he's "tough but fair," when that's not really the case.

Totally. Very emotionally intense.

So good. Just so, so good. I almost cried twice. I've been drinking, but still. Also, props for having that whole bath scene almost no actual nudity; gave it a lot of gravitas. Arya & Co., Danny & Grey Worm, and Jon/Ygritte blew it out of the water.