evita mgfs
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Posts posted by evita mgfs
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10 minutes ago, Seams said:
Good observations. There is so much horse-related stuff to reexamine, if the "whores" connection is correct. It will be interesting to see how the references differ between male and female characters. It would make sense that Cersei would see her rival for power as a "Horse" and, given her plan to frame Margaery for infidelity, as a "whore" at the same time. I think sometimes the pun is implied (LIke using the word filly, instead of horse), even if GRRM doesn't write out the exact sound-alike word.
Yes, I think Jon calls that horse Sweet Lady. I am starting to try to notice uses of the word "sweet," as it comes up a lot. I don't know if it links people to sweet foods (lemon cakes? fruit?) or to words like west or stew and steward. Or none of the above. It may be a straightforward term of endearment with no deeper meaning.
This is terrific! I also enjoyed your write vs. wight analysis on the Bran's Growing Powers thread. I hope you don't mind if I paraphrase it here? You noted the William Shakespeare was arrested for poaching in real life, as was the character Will in the AGoT prologue, that Gared's name could be a play on Edgar (Allan Poe) and you and - I'm not 100% clear who began the post and who was commenting - Ravenous Reader? - noted that Ser Waymar (who is wearing a marten fur cloak) could be a play on GRR Martin. Really nice catches!
YOU ARE GOING TO DIE! RAVENOUS READER AND I JUST FIGURED THAT OUT ON BRAN'S GROWING POWERS THREAD!!!
RAVENOUS READER SAID:
If Will = Shakespeare = ('one with') the environment = natural order = the hierarchy of authors;
and if Ser Waymar desires to disrupt the natural order;
assuming my thesis that Martin surreptitiously desires to silence or subvert Shakespeare;
Then the upstart lordling = GRRM!
Considering his penchant of constructing things in threes, why would GRRM make playful allusions to two writers, without doing the same for the third ranger?
Assuming this symmetry holds true, this suggests that 'Ser Waymar' is also 'way more' than we think he is!
I've tried playing with various permutations of GRRM's full name, 'George Raymond Richard Martin' but this is the best I can come up with:
Way-mar = Mar-tin
Ray-mond = Way-mar...! (granted, maybe I am overreaching here!)
Do any of you have some more convincing ideas about the meta-significance of this ('minor') character?
THEN I SAID:
MIND BLOWN! AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN!!!
I LOVE THE MAR-TIN THING, AND IF I MAY ADD, Royce's cloak is made of fur from MARTEN ! HAR HAR HAR!!!!
I THINK IT IS TRUE - MARTIN/MARTEN AND YOUR WORD PLAY - Martin aligns himself with the two writers he pays homage to, doesn't he? We must look out for a homage to William Golding!
SO YOU BEST HIE TO SEAMS WITH YOUR AWESOME PUNNING!!!
It must be true - great minds DO think alike!
I wish I knew how to tag like RR does. I will have to ask her how she does that!
I think it is hilarious how we all came up with it at the same time!
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I posted this pun in your excellent Reread thread:
Martin opens Cat’s POV in AGoT with Robb sitting in the front of the vessel:
“Robb sat in the bow with Grey Wind, his hand resting on his direwolf’s head” [785].
Martin closes with the northmen “bowing” their knees to the King in the North:
“He [the Greatjon] pointed at Robb with the blade. “There sits the only king I mean to bow my knee to m’lords,” he thundered. “The King in the North!”
“And he knelt, and laid his longsword at her [Catelyn’s] feet” [796].
Martin deviates from “bend” the knee to “bow” in this instance, thereby framing the POV and punning the word “bow”. In each case, Robb is out front and elevated symbolically and literally.
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2 minutes ago, Seams said:
Yes, I've been debating whether to take on the puns involving colors (white / wight, green / Gren, silver money and silver, the color) but my strongest sense is that Bronn links to brown, which is the name of the stew available in shops in Flea Bottom that includes all kinds of mystery meat, including the Symon Silver Tongue meat that Bronn provided at Tyrion's direction. A three-way pun could also be intended, with brawn in the mix. Or what about bronze?
I meant the character Bronn who is Tyrion's muscle or BRAWN at the Vale. I did not mean BROWN or another color, Sorry.
Color symbology is too fast with a myriad of cultural distinctions. Those colors most pertinent to the series - such as red and white for the weirwoods/Ghost/blood/death are the clearest to articulate. Moreover, Martin employs colors ironically and not in the traditional senses of color symbology in literature at large. He likes to make things his OWN.
But if you want a headache, discuss colors, by all means!
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hippocras / hypocrite
Bronn / brawn
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Abel / Brother of Cain and Able to do the job.
Waymar Royce / “Way More” arrogant, knowing, and dressed
Will / Will to succeed / Short for William Shakespeare
Gared – GAR / ED = EDGAR Allan Poe
MARTIN and NOMENCLATURE
WILL and GARED in the “PROLOGUE” from A GAME of THRONES
Will and Gared may be dispensable, “generic” rangers on a fatal mission whose lives are forfeit because of their inexperienced commander Ser Waymar Royce, but Martin names them with purpose as a way to honor and thank two authors who inspire his prose fiction in A Song of Ice and Fire Series. The appearance of the names Will and Gared in the first “Prologue” of a voluminous series of novels speaks to the degree of gratitude Martin owes his sources.
First, Will is short for “William”, or for “William Shakespeare”, the celebrated English writer whose works still have universal appeal hundreds of years after his death. It is no secret that Martin borrows from “the bard”, and among Shakespeare’s many poetic plays that Martin alludes to in conflicts, plot elements, and language, The Tragedy of Julius Caesar ranks high as the source material Martin prefers, putting his own “spin” on ideas and themes throughout his fantasy novels.
To convey Will’s association with Shakespeare, Martin includes details pertaining to Will’s crime of poaching a deer that parallels similar events Shakespeare biographers debate happened to young Will Shakespeare before his arrival in London.
Martin says of Will’s crime:
“Will had been a hunter before he joined the Night’s Watch. Well, a poacher in truth. Mallister freeriders had caught him red-handed in the Mallisters’ own woods, skinning one of the Mallisters’ own bucks, and it had been a choice of putting on the black or losing a hand” (AGoT).
Likewise, William Shakespeare trespasses on Sir Thomas Lucy’s property to kill a deer. In the article “In Search of Shakespeare: The Poaching Myth 1598”, a PBS.org author writes:
“Though the tale is widely discredited today, three seventeenth-century accounts claim that Shakespeare was once beaten and imprisoned for poaching [a deer]. The alleged crime took place on land belonging to Sir Thomas Lucy - one of Walsingham's and Elizabeth's chief enforcers”. [http://www.pbs.org/shakespeare/events/event83.html]].
Although Will and Will share like crimes, their punishments are quite different. Ranger Will chooses an option that will take him a lifetime to repay, but he prefers becoming a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch over losing his hand, which is an early allusion to the stigma associated with disfigurement in Martin’s world of ice and fire.
Second, the name “Gared” has an unusual spelling, one not Americanized with a “J”. However, Martin aspires to create memorable characters, and he alters spellings of familiar names to give them a medieval flare. Analyzing the spelling of “Gared” requires some mental creativity: when readers divide “Gared” into two syllables, GAR / ED, and transpose them, one with the other, the “revised” appellation is EDGAR, the first name of American author and poet Edgar Allan Poe.
Of course, the obvious inspiration Martin takes from Poe is Lord Commander Mormont’s talking raven, a character that owes a debt of gratitude to Poe’s poem “The Raven”. The title bird flies in a window and perches on a bust of Athena, and he punctuates any question the narrator poses by saying hauntingly “Nevermore!” The narrator asks the raven if he will ever see his dead lover Lenore: quothe the raven, “Nevermore!”
Furthermore, Poe’s favorite thematic inclusion in several of his short stories is the death of a beautiful woman. In Martin’s I & F Series, the death of Lyanna Stark haunts Ned and figures in many other character arcs throughout the novels.
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On 4/10/2016 at 8:03 PM, Seams said:
snip
Another half-formed thought about words: One of my earliest big leaps in deciphering GRRM metaphors was to link the burning of the Winterfell library with the burning of the House of the Undying. The description of the House of the Undying sounded a lot like a description of books to me - dusty things that preserve memories. I wonder what these burning words foreshadow in Bran and/or Dany's arcs?
snip
Martin describes the Undying as burning like corn husks, the dragon’s flames eating away at their fragile encasements. The Undying burn up very much like the parchment of ancient scrolls. The Undying may represent a collective knowledge of the warlocks - and other magical forces - which Drogon sets ablaze and ultimately destroys. Similarly, several irreplaceable scrolls are destroyed in the library fire at Winterfell – knowledge lost forever in the flames. The forces that are the old gods of the north preserve their collective knowledge within elements of nature that are, in most cases, indestructible.
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On 1/22/2015 at 7:34 PM, DarkSister1001 said:
A list of missing or otherwise unseen characters from the series. If you haven't read all of the books, turn back now.
Thanks to all that helped compile this list. It should be more organized and thorough now.
MIA (Whereabouts unknown to readers and POV characters)
Benjen Stark, First Ranger of the Night’s Watch. In 299 AC during the Great Ranging, Craster tells LC Mormont that Benjen passed through 2 years ago.
Stonesnake, A ranger in the Night’s Watch from the Shadow Tower. About 299 AC he was North of the Wall. Aside from Jon Snow, Stonesnake was the only other member of Qhorin Halfhands’ group to be last seen alive. Qhorin instructed him to make for the Fist of the First Men. Rattleshirt tells Mance that Stonesnake was lost in the Skirling Pass out of reach.
Ser Brynden “Blackfish” Tully, Warden of the Southern Marches was a staunch ally to King Robb Stark. He was last seen in 299 AC at Riverrun. According to his nephew, Lord Edmure Tully, the Blackfish escaped under the portcullis of Riverrun and swam down the Red Fork.
Maege Mormont & Galbart Glover, Staunch supporters of King Robb Stark. Dispatched by the KitN from Hag’s Mire in 299 AC (prior to the Red Wedding) to seek out Howland Reed. Yet to resurface. Both were given false order from the King to carry.
Kyle Condon & Ronnel Stout, bannermen to King Robb Stark. They were last mentioned in approximately 299 AC. They were left on the Trident with 600 men to defend against the Lannisters on orders of Roose Bolton.
Remains of Lord Eddard “Ned” Stark. His remains were sent to his Lady wife, Catelyn Tully Stark at Riverrun by Tyrion Lannister. She then sent them North with Hallis Mollen and an honor guard to be entombed with the other Lord Starks in the crypts of Winterfell. As of the end of ADwD his remains have not resurfaced and Lady Barbrey Dustin remarks that she does not intend to allow them to make it to the crypts.
Hallis Mollen, captain of the Winterfell Guards. He was sent in 299 AC from Riverrun with an honor guard to Winterfell with the remains of Lord Eddard Stark. Later Catelyn wonders if he made it past Moat Cailin before it was taken by the ironmen.
Gerold Dayne “Darkstar” of House Dayne was last seen in 300 AC on the Greenblood River in Dorne after he attempted assassination of Myrcella Baratheon.
Weasel, a young child found by Yoren or the Night’s Watch in the Riverlands. She ran off into the woods around 299 AC during the attack of Gregor Clegane.
Edric Dayne of Starfall (milk brother to Jon Snow), Anguy the Archer, Merrit O’Moontown, Watty the Miller, Melly and Puddingfoot were all members of the Brotherhood without Banners up until leadership of the group changed to Lady Stoneheart around 299 AC. None have been seen since.
Pello of Tyrosh “Greenbread” & Mad Huntsman, members of the Brotherhood without Banners, have not been seen since being sent south of the Mander River in 299 AC in search of food.
Pyat Pree, a warlock from the House of the Undying in Qarth was last seen when Dany and Drogon burned the House of the Undying for their attempt to drain her life force. Pyat is said to have survived and traveled to Pentos in search of Dany. It is heavily implied that he was captured by Euron Greyjoy and is teaching Euron black magic.
Aeron Greyjoy, Damphair a high priest of the Drowned God was at Nagga’s Hill on Old Wyk in the Iron Islands and orchestrated the kingsmoot in 299 AC. Damphair was openly against the election of Euron Greyjoy and has not been seen since.
Zei a whore from Mole's Town. She fled to Castle Black and helped defend is against wildlings using her crossbow. She stayed to help defend the gates in the following attack. Jon Snow sent her to Mole's Town for more help. She never made it back. Jon sent Mully. Mully said Mole's Town was deserted and there was no sign of Zei.
Alys Rivers was a paramour to Price Aemond Targaryen of the Greens during the Dance of the Dragons. She was pregnant with his child when she was last seen kissing him goodbye before his fight with Daemon Targaryen above the God's Eye.
Unnamed Daughter of Alys Arryn & Elys Waynwood was their fourth daughter and was kidnapped by the Burned Men when she was traveling to marry a Bracken.
Qarl Correy was a knight in service to House Velaryon at High Tide. He was rumored to be the lover of Laenor Velaryon, Queen Rhaenyra's husband. Qarl killed Laenor in Spicetown for unknown reasons. He has not been seen since he escaped after their quarrel.
Cutjack was a stonemason and Tarber was an orphan. They were making their way to the Wall as new recruits with Yoren. The survived an attack by Amory Lorch at a holdfast near the God's Eye. They abandoned the others and took everyt5hing of value they could find.
Presumed Dead (body not recovered)
Raynald Westerling, knight and good-brother to King Robb Stark. Last seen 299 AC at The Twins during the Red Wedding. He released Grey Wind and was shot with crossbow arrows. He left a blood trail to the river.
Tyrek Lannister of House Lannister was last seen in King’s Landing in 299 AC during a mob attack. Despite multiple searches his body has yet to be recovered probably due to his body being rendered unrecognizable by the mob.
Daemon Targaryen of House Targaryen fought for his wife/niece Rhaenyra and the Blacks. In 130 AC at the God’s Eye he engaged Aemond Targaryen of The Greens in a fight on dragonback. Both men and their dragons slammed into the lake. His body was the only one not recovered.
Gerion Lannister of House Lannister set sail from Lannisport in 291 AC to search for the family ancestral Valyrian steel blade. He is rumored to have gone as far as Volantis before being abandoned by his crew.
Ashara Dayne of House Dayne and sister to Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, is said to have been driven by grief to throw herself off a cliff in Starfall in 283 AC. Her body was never recovered.
Nettles, a dragonseed and rider of Sheepsteeler fought for her lover, Daemon Targaryen for the Blacks. She and her dragon were last seen around 130 AC flying over the Bay of Crabs.
Rhaeger Frey, Seymond Frey & Jared Frey of House Frey all traveled to White Harbor to return the remains of Lord Manderly’s son to him following his death at the Red Wedding. They were to depart for the Bolton/Stark wedding in Winterfell and were given palfreys as guest gifts on their day of departure. They have yet to show up. It’s heavily implied they were the meat in the pies Manderly served at the wedding feast.
Maester Wyllis traveled to Hardhome as a healer and counselor before it's destruction and was under the protection of Gorm the Wolf, one of 4 chieftains of Hardhome. When Gorm was killed in a drunken brawl Maester Wyllis fled back to Oldtown and wrote Hardhome: An Account of Three Years Spent Beyond-the-Wall among Savages, Raiders, and Woods-witches. Wyllis vanished a year after the illuminations were done. He was last seen on the docks of Oldtown looking for a ship to carrying him to Eastwatch-by-the-Sea.
Likely Changed Identities
Aurane Waters, The Bastard of Driftmark of House Velaryon and Master of Ships of the royal fleet was last seen in approximately 300 AC informing Cersei of the fighting at Storm’s End led by Ser Loras Tyrell. Later, Qyburn tells Cersei that Aurane fled King’s Landing with the ships. An exact description of these ships is mentioned as being under the command of a new pirate king, the Lord of the Waters.
Jaqen H'ghar, presumably a member of the assassins order known as Faceless Men. Arya Stark watched him change his face as he left Harrenhal in 299 AC. Later, an alchemist in Oldtown surfaced matching the description of Jaqen’s new face. The alchemist then encountered and killed Pate, a novice in training at the Citadel. Later, Sam meets “Pate” who is most likely Jaqen in yet another disguise.
Sandor Clegane, formerly a member of Joffrey Baratheon’s Kingsguard. He deserted his post during the Battle of the Blackwater. His current allegiance is unknown though he was an unlikely protector of Sansa Stark and a somewhat mentor and protector to Arya Stark. He was gravely injured in 300 AC at the Saltpans. Arya denied him the gift of mercy and left him. Later, Brienne of Tarth encounters the Elder Brother and sees a Grave Digger matching the enormous size and somewhat description of Sandor.
Gregor Clegane, The Mountain that Rides of House Clegane and brother to Sandor Celgane was a loyal bannerman to House Lannister. He championed the Iron Throne against Oberyn Martell in Tyrion Lannister’s Trial by Combat following the allegations that Tyrion poisoned King Joffrey Baratheon. Gregor took a fatal and poisoned injury from Oberyn before crushing Oberyn’s face. Qyburn was sent to tend to his wounds. Later, a knight matching Gregor’s unnatural size was introduced as the newest member of the Kingsguard named Ser Robert Strong.
Unsolved Mysteries
Syrio Forel, First Sword of Bravos (formerly), hired by Lord Eddard Stark to train Arya Stark in the art of water dancing. In 298 AC during the purge of the Winterfell household from the Red Keep he held back the Lannister guards for Arya to escape. Ser Meryn Trant of the Kingsguard tells Cersei that he killed the “dancing instructor”. Meryn’s account leaves questions as readers know that Syrio introduced himself as the First Sword and not a dancing instructor.
Unknown Players
Richard Lonmouth, Rhaegar Targaryen’s closest friend and an ally of House Targaryen was last seen in 281 AC during the Tourney at Harrenhal.
The Night's King, 13th Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch lived during the Age of Heroes. It is said that he took an Other for a wife and lost his soul in the process. Old Nan tells Bran Stark that the Night’s King was also named Brandon Stark and was brother to the King of Winter. Oddly, she also claims that Brandon the Breaker, the King of Winter brother to the Night’s King came together with the King-Beyond-The Wall, Joramun to defeat the Night’s King. They then wipe his name from the records of history.
Tysha Lannister, first wife of Tyrion Lannister, disappeared after their whirlwind elopement and subsequent devastating punishment brought on by Tywin Lannister. Based on Tyrion’s age at the time of the marriage and his current age it’s surmised that they were married around 280 AC.
Lady Lyarra Stark, of House Stark was the wife of Rickard Stark and mother to his children, Brandon, Ned, Lyanna and Benjen. Other than her lineage, no other information is known.
Willas Tyrell of House Tyrell is the heir to Highgarden. He has yet to been seen, only said to be in Highgarden.
Howland Reed of House Reed is a staunch ally of Ned Stark and House Stark. He sent his children, Jojen and Meera, to Winterfell in 299 AC to pledge fealty during the Harvest Feast and to help Bran Stark based on the greendreams of Jojen. Ned Stark states Howland saved his life at the Tower of Joy during Robert’s Rebellion.
Swampy Meg & Jon O’Nutten are members of the Brotherhood without Banners. They have not been seen, only as appendix entries.
Maegor Targaryen of House Targaryen was the son of Aerion Brightflame. Aerion died drinking wildfire in 232 AC, the same year Maegor was born. Maegor was a contender for the Iron Throne during the Great Council in 233 AC. He was passed over due to fear of him having inherited his father’s madness and because his namesake was Maegor the Cruel. He’s not been seen since the Great Council.
Shiera Seastar, a Targaryen Great Bastard was a known paramour of her half-brother, Lord Brynden “Bloodraven” Rivers. She was known to have spent time in the Red Keep though when she left and where she went is not known.
Wenda, the White Fawn was a member of the Kingswood Brotherhood during the reign of Aerys II. She was known to brand the butts of her highborn captives. Merret Frey was a victim of her branding sometime between 277 and 282 AC (based on when Merret Frey would’ve been old enough to be looking for the Brotherhood and before his marriage). Wenda’s fate is unknown after the defeat of the Kingswood Brotherhood.
King Brandon Stark, the Shipwright, was last seen setting sail on the Sunset Sea prior to Aegon’s Landing.
Emperor Aurion was one of the few dragonlords to survive the doom of Valyria. He raised an army of 30,000 Qohorik colonists, declared himself Emperor of Valyria and flew away on dragonback to reestablish Valyria. Neither he nor his host were seen again.
This is such a clever, fun topic idea,
and you did an excellent job detailing those unfortunate souls who have gone missing. Since I cannot meaningfully contribute as you and everyone else has mentioned those folk I would have put on a milk carton, I thought I would add my support to another excellent OP by Dark Sister. Good Job! -
23 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:
So good this one
Thanks!
23 hours ago, Evolett said:I do love your very insightful and detailed analyses of Martin's texts
. I agree that Jon is done with his black cloak and on rising, will fully embrace his 'white cloak, his white shadow' who is not only Ghost the Direwolf, but a literal ghost, an ancestor, up until now resident in the wolf and who will be reborn in him. Sounds crackpot, I know. Anyway, while Dany is 'fire', Jon Snow is 'snow/ice'. I was quite surprised by my own conclusion upon investigating the genetic significance of blue winter roses. They represent another form of frozen fire and Jon Snow, Lord Snow is indeed living frozen fire, presumably impervious to the Others, with enough 'immunity' to tackle them when the occasion arises.
Thanks!
I look forward to reading your link. Nothing sounds crackpot from you - you are well-informed. Share my Star/Stark with LML. His theories lead me to a connection of "star" in the name "Stark" and that Bran is the Fallen Star - K.
I think I have listened to your podcasts - although I may have the wrong name. Sorry if I do!
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10 minutes ago, Seams said:
Interesting! I am putting a lot of thought into swords - Ice in particular - these days, so this is very useful.
I love this! With my sword interest lately, I had just realized that Jeyne Poole's surname was probably significant in the symbolic sense of annealing a newly-forged or reforged sword. A smith would plunge a blade into a Poole after heating it and hammering it for awhile.
Evite mgfs thank you for your contributions. Pride and pride is a good pun to indicate the Lannister control of the Baratheon regime.
There is also certainly rich symbolism throughout the books, and maybe I am trying to make too fine a distinction between symbolism and wordplay. I'm focused on puns and rhyming words and wordplay involving the names of characters in this thread. Literary analysis of recurring motifs seems like a different topic to me.
Got it. I won't be back.
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Near the center of the novel A Dance with Dragons, Martin presents a Jon POV that is rich in figurative language that speaks to the oneness of Jon the warg and his direwolf Ghost. At the same time, Martin foreshadows Jon sharing his direwolf’s skin in the near future.
Martin plays with his cloaking/coating motif by suggesting that Jon Snow metaphorically is the “snow”, as in Jon’s observation that Ghost “seemed to love fresh snow” [462]. Ghost loves Jon Snow so much that he even covers himself with “snow”!
So much so that “At the base of the Wall he [Jon] found Ghost rolling in a snowbank . . . When he saw Jon he bounded back onto his feet and shook himself off” [462].
Because Martin repeats this and more figurative language pertaining to cloak/coat wearing and removing, Martin may indeed suggest that Jon Snow will wear his direwolf’s skin as warg – and direwolf will be in disguise as Jon Snow, wearing his snowy coat, yet cognizant and aware as his master – the warg within the direwolf. Eventually, Ghost will “shake” off or shake out Jon Snow’s warg, returning warg and wolf to the body of Jon Snow.
Furthermore, Martin makes clear to readers to pay heed to language when Jon Snow says, “The words matter . . .”[462]. In context, Jon refers to the NW oath that his new recruits will speak beyond the Wall in the grove of nine weirwoods. Yet, at the same time, Jon’s words “cloak” deeper meanings – Jon is Martin’s voice attesting to the importance of the author’s words as well as the sacred oath of the SB of the NW.
A great deal of Jon’s dialogue has deeper meanings: the NW words “bind us all together” and “They make us brothers” [462-463]. Jon and Ghost are thus bonded, closer than even Jon and his half siblings.
When Jon calls Ghost “To me”, the direwolf “shook the snow from his back and trotted to Jon’s side” [463[. This is the second reference to Ghost wearing the skin of “Jon Snow”. Then Jon and Ghost travel beneath the ice, “the trees stood tall and silent, huddled in thick white cloaks” [463]. Martin dresses the trees to emphasize the idea of “transformation/rebirth/skinchanging”. The men who march with Jon will return transformed – and they will wear the black as SBs. Likewise, Jon Snow will also be transformed/reborn/skinchanged not long after his return to the Wall. Mayhap he will shed his black cloak – Martin hints at this, yes?
Ghost stalks beside Jon’s mount, sniffing the air. When Jon asks “What is it?”, Jon admits to himself, the reader, and Ghost that Jon Snow has limited vision: “The woods were empty as far as he could see, but that was not very far” [463]. Perhaps Jon’s vision will be clearer when he looks through the red eyes of Ghost.
Jon watches as “Ghost bounded toward the trees, slipped between two-white-cloaked pines, and vanished in a cloud of snow” [463]. Martin employs the past participle of “slip” - “slipped”, a word BR speaks to Bran, telling him to slip his skin and fly. “Vanished” is an important word as Martin employs it consistently from the first novel AGoT throughout the novels that follow, when the author describes any of the Stark direwolves as they enter the forest or elsewhere. “A vanishing act” is a trick, an illusion that magicians perform – it is a fitting word for Martin to repeat because his world of ice and fire is filled with magic.
Martin poignantly depicts Jon and Ghost’s bond – their oneness:
“Jon smelled Tom Barleycorn before he saw him. Or was it Ghost who smelled him? Of late, Jon Snow sometimes felt as he and his direwolf were one, even awake” [466].
“The shield that guards the realms of men. Ghost nuzzled up against his shoulder, and Jon draped his arm around him. He could smell Horse’s unwashed breeches, the sweet scent Satin combed into his beard, the sharp smell of fear, the giant’s overpowering musk. He could hear the beating of his own heart” [469].
Martin emphasizes that Jon and Ghost are connected in language that is obvious and in metaphoric/symbolic language as well.
The third time Martin refers to Ghost and his snow coat is here: “The great wolf appeared first, shaking off the snow” [466]. However, Ghost is also a “white shadow at Jon’s side” with red eyes like the weirwood’s.
Martin makes many other references to cloaks, all of which play into the theme of changing/transforming through wearing an outer garment that is superfluous when held up against what rests inside the heart of he who wears another’s likeness.
“The evening sky had turned the faded grey of an old cloak that had been washed too many times . . .” [466].
“Their hoods were raised against the biting wind, and some had scarves wrapped about their faces, hiding their features” [464].
“With their black hoods and thick black cowls, the six might have been carved from shadow” [468].
“The wind . . , made their coats snap and swirl . . .” [469].
Finally, Jon Snow removes his cloak upon returning, “hanging his cloak on the peg beside the door” [470].
After taking off his cloak, Jon reads the words of a king, after which he reflects upon Winterfell, “the castle is a shell . . . not WF, but the ghost of WF” [470].
Jon without his NW identity and cloak is an empty shell as is WF without a visible Stark on location. Ghost will house Jon Snow’s warg, and wolf and warg will make their presence known as a Ghost in Winterfell, literally and symbolically.
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The first two sentences of Ned’s POV I from AGoT follow:
“The visitors poured though the castle gates in a river of gold and silver and polished steel, three hundred strong, a pride of bannermen and knights, of sworn swords and freeriders. Over their heads a dozen golden banners whipped back and forth in the northern wind, emblazoned with the crowned stag of Baratheon” (AGoT 39).
First sentences in a POV are often significant, and in these opening sentences Martin captures the pomp and circumstance of a royal arrival featuring colors uncharacteristic of the cold grey north splashed against the sky,
Martin’s “nautical motif” is evident in words such as “poured”, “river”, “gate”, “whipped back and forth”, and “in the northern wind”, all of which conjure images of movement as well as of the sails of a craft upon a body of water.
The “river” speaks to an analogy Lord Brynden makes in his lessons to Bran, comparing time to a river. Moreover, the water imagery brings to mind Homer’s Odyssey, the story of Odysseus’ ill-fated voyage home to the island of Ithaca. Like Odysseus, each Stark embarks on a symbolic “odyssey” of his/her own, a long arduous journey during which he/she will encounter perils that he/she must overcome. Some will survive, others will fail. Ultimately, all will return to their home in some fashion or another.
LION MOTIF: Martin uses the word “pride” – aka a family of lions – here “a pride of bannermen and knights, of sworn swords and freeriders ”. When Robert vaults off his warhorse, he greets Ned with a “familiar roar”. Martin intimates that this Baratheon is more a LION than a STAG, for King Robert confides in Ned that he plans to name Jaime Lannister “Warden of the East” and send little Robert Arryn to foster with Tywin Lannister.
Two pages later, once the King is with Ned for a while, he behaves more like a STAG when he “snorts” a remark that Ned’s people in the north are hiding underneath the snow.
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Dolorous Eddison Tollet, OR Toilet: he seems to be around urine, feces, and vomit.
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George RR Martin’s Nod to Mark Twain’s The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn in Jon Snow’s Seventh POV from A Dance with Dragons
American satirist and novelist Samuel Clemens assumes the pen name Mark Twain, which he takes from his experiences as a young man when he became a “cub” steamboat pilot. “Mark Twain”, or “mark number two”, is “a Mississippi River term” that refers to “the second mark on the line” that measured a depth signified by two fathoms, or twelve feet, or a “safe depth for the steamboat” [https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=mark+twain+meaning].
Twain incorporates his pseudo-identity in thematic elements that feature twos, halves, middles, and dualities, all of which are evident in his classic novel The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. In a similar fashion, George RR Martin pays homage to Twain’s whimsical incorporation of “twain”, or elements of “twos”, most notably in Jon Snow’s seventh POV, the middle of thirteen such POV narratives, in A Dance with Dragons.
In Huck, Twain strategically halves his novel, placing its technical climax, or turning point, at its center and marking it with Huck’s pivotal words: “All right then, I’ll go to hell”. Huck’s moral decision has grave consequences, or so he believes, because he must weigh the value of his friendship with Jim against what society has taught him about slavery. [Apparently, Twain scholars have counted the words from the beginning and from the end of the novel to ascertain an equal divide before and after Huck’s memorable words – I, however, never counted words myself to confirm these claims.] Twain writes:
“I [Huck] was a-trembling, because I’d got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it”.
Huck opts to help Jim escape slavery even if it means eternal damnation rather than going to what others view as heaven. Moreover, Huck’s experiences on the Mississippi River with Jim teaches him that Jim is a man no matter the color of his skin and that the “sivilized” world from which they come is cruel and hypocritical. So Huck chooses “freedom” for him and his pal.
In a similar fashion, Jon decides to permit two wildlings, Leathers and Jax, to wear a black cloak after saying their vows, thus becoming SBs of the Night’s Watch. Moreover, Jon’s choice is a prelude to his later resolve of allowing the wildlings to pass the Wall to save them from the supernatural forces threatening them. Neither of Jon’s decrees is popular with a majority of his black brothers whose hatred for the free folk is “bone deep” [ADwD 465].
After the men say their vows and rise, Jon Snow does not see the “wildlings” – “all he saw was men” [469]. This is like Huck seeing Jim’s humanity despite the color of his skin.
Martin manipulates his language in Jon’s POV to convey twos, halves, middles, divisions, disguises, and dualities, all with a cleverness that rivals Twain’s. The first sentence of the POV begins the pattern: “The sun had broken through near midday, after seven days of dark skies and snow flurries” [461]. Even Martin’s repetition of “seven” marks the chronological placement of this POV.
The men “cross” beneath the Wall to embark on their journey and upon their return. “Bowen Marsh stomped across the yard to confront Jon” [462]. “Ghost slipped between two white-coated pines” [463]. “Half a mile from the grove, long red shafts of autumn sunlight were slanting between the branches of leafless trees . . . “ and “The riders crossed a frozen stream, between two jagged rocks armored in ice . . .” [465]. “He looked right and left”; “They rushed the grove together . . . “; “no two faces were alike” ; “Ghost , . . a white shadow at Jon’s side” [466]. “The fire in the center of the grove . . .” [467].
Despite the many, many examples, the most important couple in this “middle” narrative is Jon Snow and his direwolf Ghost.
Martin foreshadows Jon sharing his direwolf’s skin in the near future.
Martin plays with his cloaking/coating motif by suggesting that Jon Snow metaphorically is the “snow”, as in Jon’s observation that Ghost “seemed to love fresh snow” [ADwD 462]. Ghost loves Jon Snow so much that he even covers himself with “snow”!
So much so that “At the base of the Wall he [Jon] found Ghost rolling in a snowbank . . . When he saw Jon he bounded back onto his feet and shook himself off” [462].
Because Martin repeats this and more figurative language pertaining to cloak/coat wearing and removing, Martin may indeed suggest that Jon Snow will wear his direwolf’s skin as warg – and direwolf will be in disguise as Jon Snow, wearing his snowy coat, yet cognizant and aware as his master – the warg within the direwolf.
Furthermore, Martin makes clear to readers to pay heed to language when Jon Snow says, “The words matter . . .” [ ADwD 462]. In context, Jon refers to the NW oath that his new recruits will speak beyond the Wall in the grove of nine weirwoods. Yet, at the same time, Jon’s words “cloak” deeper meanings – Jon is Martin’s voice attesting to the importance of the author’s words as well as the sacred oath of the SB of the NW.
A great deal of Jon’s dialogue has deeper meanings: the NW words “bind us all together” and “They make us brothers” [462-463]. Jon and Ghost are thus bonded, closer than even Jon and his half siblings.
When Jon calls Ghost “To me”, the direwolf “shook the snow from his back and trotted to Jon’s side” [463[. This is the second reference to Ghost wearing the skin of “Jon Snow”. Then Jon and Ghost travel beneath the ice, “the trees stood tall and silent, huddled in thick white cloaks” [463]. Martin dresses the trees to emphasize the idea of “transformation/rebirth/skinchanging”. The men who march with Jon will return transformed – and they will wear the black as SBs. Likewise, Jon Snow will also be transformed/reborn/skinchanged not long after his return to the Wall. Mayhap he will shed his black cloak – Martin hints at this, yes?
Ghost stalks beside Jon’s mount, sniffing the air. When Jon asks “What is it?”, Jon admits to himself, the reader, and Ghost that Jon Snow has limited vision: “The woods were empty as far as he could see, but that was not very far” [463]. Perhaps Jon’s vision will be clearer when he looks through the red eyes of Ghost.
Jon watches as “Ghost bounded toward the trees, slipped between two-white-cloaked pines, and vanished in a cloud of snow” [463]. Martin employs the past participle of “slip” - “slipped”, a word Lord Brynden speaks to Bran, telling him to slip his skin and fly. “Vanished” is a word Martin employs consistently, beginning with AGoT and throughout the novels that follow. The author describes the Stark direwolves as vanishing on those occasions when they enter the forest or elsewhere.
“A vanishing act” is a trick, an illusion that magicians perform – it is a fitting word for Martin to repeat because his world of ice and fire is filled with magic.
Mark Twain famously inserts himself into the action of Huck, appearing as a performer in a circus, standing upon the back of a horse, attempting a balancing act. The author disguising himself as a player amid many likely goes unnoticed by casual readers. The art of disguise that fools even the readers is like a magic trick. As is balancing the literary elements that are integral to the composition of truly brilliant fiction.
Martin poignantly depicts Jon and Ghost’s bond – their oneness:
“Jon smelled Tom Barleycorn before he saw him. Or was it Ghost who smelled him? Of late, Jon Snow sometimes felt as he and his direwolf were one, even awake” [466].
“The shield that guards the realms of men. Ghost nuzzled up against his shoulder, and Jon draped his arm around him. He could smell Horse’s unwashed breeches, the sweet scent Satin combed into his beard, the sharp smell of fear, the giant’s overpowering musk. He could hear the beating of his own heart” [469].
Martin emphasizes Jon and Ghost’s connection through shared sensory perceptions.
The third time Martin refers to Ghost and his snow coat is here: “The great wolf appeared first, shaking off the snow” [466]. However, Ghost is also a “white shadow at Jon’s side, with red eyes like the weirwood’s”.
Martin references coats and cloaks, all of which develop the theme of a covering that outwardly changes or transforms an individual’s appearance. Yet wearing an outer garment does not conceal what dwells in the heart of he who wears it.
Similarly, in Huck, Twain presents his lead character as wearing many disguises – Huck pretends to be a girl, wearing a dress and bonnet and claiming to know about sewing. Likewise, Jim becomes Huck’s surrogate father figure, a man with black skin symbolically adopting a white boy. Jim even spares Huck from discovering the bloated corpse of his pap when they come upon their house floating upon the river.
Following are a few references from Jon’s POV7 that suggest the wearing of cloaks and coats:
“The evening sky had turned the faded grey of an old cloak that had been washed too many times . . .” [466].
“Their hoods were raised against the biting wind, and some had scarves wrapped about their faces, hiding their features” [464].
“With their black hoods and thick black cowls, the six might have been carved from shadow” [468].
“The wind . . , made their coats snap and swirl . . .” [469].
Finally, Jon Snow removes his cloak upon returning, “hanging his cloak on the peg beside the door” [470].
After taking off his cloak, Jon reads the words of a king, after which he reflects upon Winterfell, “the castle is a shell . . . not WF, but the ghost of WF” [470].
Jon removing his cloak is “like” the empty shell of WF without a visible Stark on location. Instead of his blacks, Jon will replace them with Ghost’s white fur when he accepts his warg nature. Perhaps the direwolf and the warg within will take up residence in the shell that is Winterfell. Great Jon Snow’s Ghost will occupy Winterfell, literally and symbolically.
I have skimped on direct references to Huck and further evidences from Martin’s Jon POV. But the duality theme that both authors masterfully convey is worthy of further analysis. I have presented only a few evidences taken from my much longer and more in depth study of shared patterns and developments between the fiction works of two celebrated American authors.
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I'll add to this:
AGoT Reread: Direwolves, Dragons [eggs], Momont’s Raven, and Cats, Oh My! Pets or Providence?
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No worries: although as one more formatting suggestion I'd recommend fewer spaces between the lines. Your post is a solid two screens tall :)
First stanza! Clearly describing KL at the end of AFFC:
Priest sacrifices/beast has no heart = Qyburn works his art, turns Gregor into a heartless, undead beast
Lioness whelped in the streets = You could say Cersei gave birth "outside the home" when she mothered bastards, or you could say she was reborn in the streets on her WOS. Pick whichever one you think fits better.
hooting owl = the only owl in the capitol died years ago soooo white raven announcing that it's noon i.e., the sun starts slowly setting now i.e., winter is coming! Wow these are a lot harder...
Second stanza is all about Victarion, who is Euron's slave, and his fancy new hand.
Third stanza, and you get to pick again. Either Jamie learning to reign in his hostility to the world like he does in AFFC, or Cersei showing she's all sizzle and no steak.
Fourth stanza: And now we're back at the Blackwater, with Sansa and Cersei and all the WAGs in the Red Keep huddled together, imagining Stannis' soldiers (under their flaming banner) breaking through the gate and running through the streets
Since these aren't really references or homages, maybe this should be it's own thread? Because I think we've invented sort of an awesome game here.
You'd know, little mouse! Wasn't Algernon running a maze? Thank you for the advice about the spacing. For some reason, it does that - and then it is impossible for me to go in and backspace to level text.
Here's the thread - not one response:
and here
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The beast without a heart could be the horse sacrificed so that Dany could eat his heart?
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Obviously my friend, this is all referenced in the Battle of the Blackwater:
Fierce fiery warriors = Stannis' men fighting under the burning heart
Fought upon the clouds = They fight on the bridge of boats surrounded by smoke, and emerge from the smoke of their ruined fleet to land at the gates of KL
Ranks & squadrons drizzing blood on the Capitol = They launch a coordinated, professional assault on KL
Noise of battle/horses & dying men = THERE WAS A FIREFIGHT!
Ghosts did shriek about the streets = Loras in Renly's armor, ending the battle
Psh, gimme somethin hard!
AWESOME!
I have more for your oh so brilliant mind:
The Priests also perform a sacrifice, and the beast is without a heart!
A lioness hath whelped in the streets;
An owl hoots noon day in the Capital
CASCA
A common slave--you know him well by sight--
Held up his left hand, which did flame and burn
Like twenty torches join'd, and yet his hand,
Not sensible of fire, remain'd unscorch'd.
Besides--I ha' not since put up my sword--
Against the Capitol I met a lion,
Who glared upon me, and went surly by,
Without annoying me:
and there were drawn
Upon a heap a hundred ghastly women,
Transformed with their fear; who swore they saw
Men all in fire walk up and down the streets.
And yesterday the bird of night did sit
Even at noon-day upon the market-place,
Hooting and shrieking.
I apologize I posted in color. I was slammed in another thread for doing so. I sincerely meant no offense by using color.
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Which, if I'm remembering Shakespeare right, happened shortly before Jon Sno-, I mean Julius Caesar, was stabbed to death by a bunch of colleagues. You're better at bullshit than you thought.
Har! Help me with these from Caesar, more nastiness before Julius' pals butchered him!
Fierce fiery warriors fought upon the clouds, Fire Eater said the Trial by Combat at the Eyrie.
In ranks and squadrons and right form of war,
Which drizzled blood upon the Capitol; ?
The noise of battle hurtled in the air, ?
Horses did neigh, and dying men did groan, - When Ned is attacked by Jaime in King's Landing
And ghosts did shriek and squeal about the streets. ?? Ghost howls in Jon's wolf dream. Ghost are all about WF, according to Theon.
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Mine isn't nearly as good as it probably looks right now, I'm just binge-listening an awesome podcast. You too can fake knowledge you don't have!
I'll try, and I know Plutarch is more fiction than fact, but here goes:
From Julius Caesar, on the eve of the Ides of March, based on Plutarch’s Lives of the Noble Greeks and Romans, Shakespeare’s source:
And graves have yawn'd, and yielded up their dead;
Sounds like wights to me.
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Oh darn! My history is poor! I know Shakespeare's histories?
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“A horse, a horse! My kingdom for a horse!”
In Shakespeare’s Richard III, he loves his horse “Barbary”, a name that is reminiscent of Lady Barbery Dustin, whose sigil is a horse. Her husband’s horse was returned by Ned Stark after the Tower of Joy.
From the play:
When Bolingbroke rode on roan Barbary,
That horse that thou so often hast bestrid,
That horse that I so carefully have dress'd!KING RICHARD II
Rode he on Barbary? Tell me, gentle friend,
How went he under him?Groom
So proudly as if he disdain'd the ground.
KING RICHARD II
So proud that Bolingbroke was on his back!
That jade hath eat bread from my royal hand;
This hand hath made him proud with clapping him.
Would he not stumble? would he not fall down,
Since pride must have a fall, and break the neck
Of that proud man that did usurp his back?
Forgiveness, horse! why do I rail on thee,
Since thou, created to be awed by man,
Wast born to bear? I was not made a horse;
And yet I bear a burthen like an ass,
Spurr'd, gall'd and tired by jouncing Bolingbroke. -
I read the chapter years ago on Martin's website and thought that if Jon is actually dead, then Theon could be a King's blood sacrifice to bring Jon back without using Mel.
I'm surprised that I can't find anyone else on this thread who thought the same, but maybe I missed something in the earlier threads or in the text itself?
GELFLING: There are threads devoted to arguments for and against Theon meeting his fate beneath a nearby heart tree. Spilling the "hot" king's blood dispassionately upon the carpeting of snow, a pristine, white canvas safeguarded by lofty branches stretching to reach the sky. The swift separating of the head from the neck results in a gush of red, then a spray, and finally a slow pulsing stream that stains the shaded floor as if an abstract artist whose medium of paint is replaced by blood.
The snow drinks the blood and feeds the roots buried beneath the frozen, hard-packed earth. Many members also post the pro's and con's of Bran skinchanging Theon so that he can articulate a sincere and meaningful confession, including Theon's full disclosure about the fates of Bran and Rickon.
Now, my issue is why Theon's sacrifice is necessary to feed the greenseer and advance his magic when Bran is proficient enough to taste the blood of an ancient sacrifice 1000's of years in the past.
It is also an exercise in futility for Bran to apply his energies into skinchanging with Theon when his traitor status prevents a meaningful connection between them.
Good luck finding kindred spirits to rehash and debate your Theon/Bran theories.
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Interesting about Gared, is it such an unusual name in english? In any case, I think there is no doubt that Poe has influenced Martin. Something I posted with regard to Septa Lemore (inspired by a poster's type-o "Septa Lenore")
Regarding Mormont's Raven, I'd like to think that some of the inspiration for it came from Maurice Sendak's beautiful illustration of the nursery rhyme "Hector Protector".
LYKOS:
:bowdown: THANKS FOR RESPONDING! Regarding the spelling of "Gared", nowadays, so many spellings are adapted from other names and nationalities, so I think my argument was weak. I am not the type who puzzles over names, but when I was annotating the "Prologue", Martin's choice of "Will" was so darn direct and deliberate, I figured Gared's name had some significance as well. Dividing it into syllables made it all clear. Awesome connection: "Das Leonoren Motiv".
Martin may have read Poe's novel Arthur Gordon Pym, an "adventure" story about cannibalism at sea - the survivors draw straws to select their sacrificial "lamb". This scene reminds me of Stannis issuing judgment on several of his men who were so hungry, they ate from a corpse.
I anticipate more POE-TWISTS, especially with an army of the dead at hand. Oh, Bran's cave full of skulls resembles the catacombs of the Montresor's in "The Cask of Amontillado"., where Montresor entombs his unfortunate friend Fortunato because of an insult the author never reveals. Now, the Poe trick of never revealing what his readers desperately want to know sounds like Martin to me!
Actually, the walking dead reminds me of Odysseus visiting the Land of the Dead in Homer's Odyssey in order to speak with the dead, blind prophet Tiresias. The rows of dead were endless and deep, and heroic Odysseus is afraid, but he makes an animal sacrifice and holds back the horde to allow Tiresias the first sip of hot blood. The dead cannot speak until they drink the hot blood of an animal sacrifice. The "blood" may play a similar role in the future.
I just had an idea, but I need to take time to write it out and find textual evidence. Thanks again!
[Spoilers] EP601
in E01: The Red Woman
Posted
Regarding Thorne, if my speculations from 2012 have been right, Thorne's speech is akin to that of Brutus' speech after the death of Caesar. Thorne does not "inspire" with emotions - he merely gives the men his reasons for killing Snow.
It will be Tormund Giantsbane who will give the speech of Marc Antony's ilk - the one that stirs men's blood to mutiny and rage - and Tormund will "Cry Havoc - and let slip the dogs [direwolves] of war!"
I bet we hear that oration in Episode 2 or 3,