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Dokivi

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  1. Dokivi

    Theory: Book Jorah kills Jon

    I think that if the books go with Jon killing Dany, then it will be the Dothraki who kill Jon. Because this solves the plot hole of Dothraki staying in Westeros and being all cool and peaceful now, or just leaving to Naath with the Unsullied, or whatever it is that happened with them in the show. From asoiaf wiki: "Only a khal can ask a man to become his bloodrider, by saying "I ask your oath, that will live and die as blood of my blood, riding at my side to keep me safe from harm."[2] Ancient traditions proclaim that when a khal dies, his bloodriders die with him. Should the khal die in battle, the bloodriders live only long enough to avenge him. Once done, the last service the bloodriders must perform is to escort the khaleesi to Vaes Dothrak to join the dosh khaleen, and then they are to join their khal in death.
  2. Dokivi

    Ask D&D

    "Mance is such an crucial character in the story and we wanted to give him justice, so we gave him this very dramatic death. Also we wanted to subvert expectations, as it seems a bit obvious that we will want to keep a good actor around" While really thinking: "WHO DAT?"/ "Damn, this dude was costly and we sure did not know what to do with this character." My question to D&D: Could you please describe the thought process behind the decision to have people hide in the crypts during the battle of Winterfell? And all of the characters who have seen the army of the dead being happy with this plan?
  3. So there's this: https://www.tvguide.com/news/hbo-game-of-thrones-emmys-submissions/?fbclid=IwAR0XeZziQZUFtjiFqA76TOYFzX2qzq2J5BS-8zEnKcY1GvgNt8bphM0d43M Just FYI. HBO nominated D&D in WRITING category for the final episode. This is hilarious. I can't even.
  4. Dokivi

    The character assassination of Daenerys

    The Jorah scene though, we all know how the Yunkai issue ended. With Dany burning the masters anyway, because they used her mercy against her and it almost cost her a city. So that was an ill advise also. Truth is I think, if we are to criticise the medieval, monarchy-based methods for ruling, you can never use 100% mercy or 100% violence. Both approaches are more than likely to result in your head's sad and painful departure from the rest of your body. Or a dagger in your back. A good ruler knows when to use which. When to hear advice and when not to. I'm not saying Dany would be the best Queen, but she did use both approaches successfully and more often than not did not need an advice to do the right thing. Her gut instinct to burn the masters and to attack KL as soon as she arrived were both violent, but were both right. I would also like to point out that from the point of being merciless to your enemies to the point of being basically Hitler and burning innocents by the thousands, there is quite a leap. The Barristan scene, thanks for bringing that up - I indeed forgot about it and his reasoning sounds very reminiscent of later D&D justifications for Mad Queen turn.
  5. Dokivi

    The character assassination of Daenerys

    Yes, she would react to injustice with violence. The showrunners could have used this to justify her final actions. Have her attack the people as a reaction to and directly after the citizens of KL kill her dragons, or Missandei, or defend the city themselves from her. Have a direct link here, so it's clear why she starts burning the city, and not Cersei. Instead they decided to go with something that made no sense whatsoever. Also, I fundamentally disagree with a point made by you here, and also by the showrunners, that Dany's advisors used to "ground her against her darker impulses.". Most of the best and most benevolent decisions she has made, she made without anyone advising her. The only advisor to ever stop her from using violence was Tyrion, briefly in season 7. He convinced her to not attack KL as soon as she arrived in Westeros, but seeing as how easy it was for her to take down the Red Keep with what could have been 0 casualties in innocents, I would say that was the shittiest advice to ever happen to anyone.
  6. Dokivi

    Red Flags: Dany = Meereen Nobles

    The Meereenese nobles i think have nothing to do with this. Frankly, they consciously and willingly participated in the oppression and murder of innocent people. Dany, as I said, has been sold and forced into participating in Dothraki atrocities. For all we have seen in the show, she was a rape victim, who developed feelings for the perpetrator. You are also omitting the fact that Mirri openly admits being responsible for Dany's miscarriage. I just watched the scene again to make sure. After she tells Dany what happened to her son, she says "I warned you. Only death can pay for life". In the previous scene she tricked her into thinking it was about his horse, but after it's done, she confesses. And it wasn't my point that Mirri had no right to want Khal Drogo dead. Sure she did. To quote a certain smart man "given the opportunity, what do we do to those who hurt the ones we love?". A perfect Mary Sue character might forgive people who kill her loved ones, but i think neither Mirri nor Dany were particularly cruel to take their respective revenge.
  7. Dokivi

    Red Flags: Dany = Meereen Nobles

    I'm still not inclined to agree on this point. You are skipping the fact that Dany did not voluntarily profit off of Dothraki brutality. She was sold to Khal Drogo, much like a slave would. Given her position and possibilities she did however voluntarily do everything in her power to help Mirri. By her actions, Mirri didn't just hurt Khal Drogo, she also hurt Dany (deceived her, stripped her of her lover and her position, allegedly caused her miscarriage). Mirri even openly enjoyed Dany's suffering in the scene afterwards. She knew Dany did everything she could for her and yet decided to hurt her and smear it in her face. This is why the audience did not see Dany's revenge as an exceptionally cruel action. Closest real-life situation to this that I can think of is giving money to a homeless person, just to have them slap you for not giving enough. And then laugh at your tears.
  8. Dokivi

    Jon is a hypocrite

    Admittedly, the character is rather difficult to like. Not sure if it's the writing, the dialogue, or acting, but most of his arc is just plain, one-note and boring in the show. Lacks depth or development, makes tons of dumb decisions and his relationship with Dany is portrayed so poorly, most of their scenes together were laughable. Aside from that, it's kind of hard to even discuss the merit of military decisions of each character, when pretty much everything could have been solved by a magical face-swapping assassin (which is why i think Arya will never go back to being Arya in the books).
  9. Dokivi

    Moral of each characters story?

    Ned - honor is a virtue that will get you nowhere. Stannis - honor will make you rigid and unlikable. And being unlikable gets you nowhere. Robb (books) - honor is full of contradictions. One action can be both honorable and dishonorable simultaneously.... also, duh, honor will get you nowhere. Jaime - same as Robb. Jon - honor is the death of love. Basically, GRRM hates honor.
  10. Dokivi

    Dany the Mad Queen was a terrible idea

    Agreed. Sort of. However, I think that narratively, it made sense for her character to end on a tragic note. Much like it's already been pointed out, Dany's story has always been just her going up and up and up in power and resources. To have her just win/ get the IT could end up being a boring ending. I always suspected that she would lose/die, but frankly, having her go mad is the worst narrative choice of all the "no happy ending" options. It would have been better if she died a hero, in the Battle for the Dawn. It would have been better to have her realize she preferred ruling in Essos and since she gains no love in Westeros, have her go back and remain a queen of Slavers Bay. It would have been much better to have her destroy the Red Keep in anger directed at Cersei and have her kill innocents as collateral damage. And finally, it would have made a much, much better story, to have her blow up KL unintentionally - she goes for Red Keep, boom, wildfire does the rest. It would have achieved the same ending, but without her dumb heel turn. And it would have felt much more tragic.
  11. You have proven in this post that you do not understand the first thing about feminism or feminists, so honestly, no point in arguing. I do dare say however, you seem very emotional about someone having a different opinion than yours. I'm not a professional, but we can address your anger management issues on priv, maybe I can help. If you are truly interested in exploring worldviews and experiences different than your own, then maybe we can even continue this discussion like respectful adults we are.
  12. Certainly not to me. Or to all the Stark loyalists who have fallen in the Battle of the Bastards, after he "bravely" caused his own forces to charge on Boltons. But seems like the northerners don't mind dying and are all like CROWN.IT! Cause honestly, we need more Aragorn-like heroes in fantasy... -.-'
  13. What I think this goes down to is that no "twist" ever is a good twist if it relates to a major, well-established character suddenly going 180, just so it can come as a surprise to the viewers. And this one was, up until the last second, meant to be a surprise to us and the writers sacrificed all logic, character development and anything worthwhile about this arc, just so there can be a surprise. And so that Jon Snow will not be in a gray area for killing her and remains a flawless hero figure. I'm really disappointed with this and by no means is this the result of just wanting my favourite characters to be good and moral. Quite the opposite, I most like my characters edgy, flawed, and broken. But if this is a corruption arc, it needs to be earned. My other beef with this arc is on purely ideological level, as I believe there are not nearly enough inspirational, well-written, strong female characters in the mainstream media. And this turn for Dany I believe enforces negative stereotypes of women in power AND robs us of a potentially inspirational figure and source of inner strength (which she was for many, including Emilia Clarke). So much from me in your research on why people might dislike this turn for Dany.
  14. I very much agree with OP. This was D&D trying to excuse their lack of skill in writing and properly setting up the scene. The quote from Tyrion is pretty much exactly what they said in the Inside the episode for ep. 5. While I think it's narratively lazy and generally disgusting what they did in that scene I would also argue that it's borderline offensive. They just tried to tell us that Dany, a character who ended slavery was already evil back in Essos and we were wrong to cheer for her. What? I mean... I'm a white gal from Europe, but they do have tons of viewers of various ethnic backgrounds. I don't imagine the descendants of former slaves would be inclined to agree with D&D's "philosophy" and moral of this entire arc. Especially since Dany is by no means the only character in this story to have killed her enemies (Tyrion and Jon included).
  15. Hi all! I have a theory regarding the fate of Book Arya, based on the clusterf**k that was season 8. It was quite easy to notice during this season, that the very presence of Arya in the plot & main events of the story creates a huge narrative issue. Every major battle, war or conflict, can be easily solved, no sweat. Just send your magical assassin -> profit. Additionally, I think the whole story of Faceless Men allocating resources in training Arya and then letting her do her thing, once training is done is extremely naive. Not to mention that in the show, she also killed one of their resources before leaving. In any realistic scenario, she would have Faceless Men hunting her to the edge of the known world for what she has done. Another issue is that Arya is a Stark. Her family is so fixed on honour, I don't imagine she would be proud to tell them who she really is. Backstabbing people is not exactly honourable (sorry, Jon), especially if you're doing it on behalf of others, no questions asked. This is what makes me think, Arya will either: - Never reach Winterfell - Reach Winterfell to kill off a target, but never talk to her siblings again, while wearing her own face - Or overstep Faceless Men rules to save her siblings and have to hide under different identities forever Perhaps she will have a mission in Westeros, influence the plot anonymously in one crucial moment, and then leave never to be seen again, much like she has by the end of her arc in the show? I think it's a very GRRM-style drama if she sees her siblings and influences their ultimate fate, but they never see her again and are convinced she is dead. What do you think?
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