dndmn422

Not sure if you got your answer yet, but that was not Lena's body. They used a body double and digitally patched Lena's face on the wider shots. (The close up shots were actually Lena and were shoulders up only). If you ask me this makes the scene even more impressive. Her contract specifically has no frontal nudity in it.

lol you are basically asking for them to double the budget of the show, or otherwise half the quality of what they currently are producing.

Agreed completely. The only caveat I would include is that when logic or in-show established character traits are pushed aside to accommodate the production it's frustrating. Examples of this for season 5: -Littlefinger not knowing Ramsey's nature and marring Sansa to him. -Jamie/Bronn expecting to smuggle myrcella out of dorne by themselves (and actually succeeding in breaking into the palace) -Ramsay, having little to no military experience, being able to sneak into and back out of Stannis' camp (I don't buy the whole "northerners know the land") -Jon coming back to Castle Black, seeing all the brothers hate him, but doesn't immediately tell them what happened at Hardhome in an effort to support his case. I understand shortcuts need to be made. I'm fine with truncating/condensing, but when logic is tossed aside it hurts what I feel is an otherwise great show.

lol OK whatever helps you sleep at night. As long as its not a main character it's OK.

For those still upset about the assault of women I'm waiting for them to give D&D credit for taking tysha out of the show... I mean GRRM only had her gang raped by 50 men and the only purpose was to serve Tyrion's story. But no, clearly D&D take it to a whole new level not seen in the books :rolleyes: Anyway this episode was just as solid for me on a rewatch... Its just great to finally see the WW in action. IMO this is something GRRM should have done a while ago. Instead we have dozens of chapters to memorize gibberish names in Mereen. And I feel no pain for George, hes sitting pretty raking in the $$ for the show, I doubt he's batting an eyelash at the changes to plot like many here are going crazy over lol.

I have no idea why people are suspicious of him. If there is one thing this show does not do it is subtlety, so to think a man with a hood in the background will somehow be important to the scene seems silly to me.

You're getting too technical here. The real issue is if Tyrion mentioned Aemon it would lead to confusion among unsullied/casual viewers. The majority of viewers don't know the exact relation between Aemon and Dany, they don't know Aemon's backstory, all they know is they watched him die last episode. To come back the very next episode and talk of him as Dany's "last living relative" would make unsullied/casuals think "wait... didn't he just die last week, or are they talking about someone else?" It was easier/makes more sense just not to mention him, the show asks too much of casual viewers already with the number of secondary and tertiary characters it mentions.

This sounds good to me. I'll add that I still like the theory that's been floated that Arya will wind up in Oldtown with Sam.

I think the point is that we the viewers couldnt tell the difference because we aren't trained, but the faceless men have so perfected the art that THEY can tell the difference even if its too subtle for anyone else. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Battle scenes have been done in film for decades, so its kind of hard to coordinate a battle without doing something that has been done before. To me the execution and quality was great, top notch for any television show and that's what matters most. And it was great to actually see the walkers in action, something we still have yet to see in the books. It is necessary to make sure viewers know what the real threat is and this scene, especially the closing shot, establishes that perfectly. As far as why Jon didn't just flee, if you notice there is a pause just before he decides hold back the undead charge. I think he was weighing the decision in his mind and I loved that moment, because honestly I never bought into the wilding/NW alliance in the books. Here Jon made a conscious decision to prove to the wildings that they were in this together. If in that moment he turned around and left then what sort of alliance is that? The non-rowing rowboat was confusing but I think it was just to show the shock on the rowers' minds that they literally just saw thousands of dead raised.

I have a feeling that in the books selmy will not live to see Tyrion and dany meet up. Something about that trio just doesn't seem to jive, like selmy would advise her to kill Tyrion and dany would trust his advice over tyrion's wit. So while it was sad to see selmy go I don't really think he could be there and have Tyrion there at the same time. It's like dany had a hole in her council for a wise person who knows westeros that Tyrion can now fill.

agreed, I'm also wondering how such a plot would even be able to be revealed. I mean is a walker going to start talking and have a monologue while holding Jon hostage? Or is Sam going to find something in the library that indicates this? While it's a cool idea it doesn't seem like something that could ever be fully broached in a way that would make sense. It could be something that is hinted at but never truly revealed...

lol yes I turned to my unsullied GF after that scene and giggled so much I wound up telling her Jon gets stabbed and ruining it for her lol. IMO this was the best episode since season 1. Hardhome was excellent, tyrion/dany was great and arya, cersei, Sansa were all on point. Only scene that didn't really fit was the Sam and olly scene but it served to remind/set up to Jon's expedition and more story for whatever olly does to Jon. Oh yeah and it gave the biggest foreshadowing in the history of foreshadowing. Really I'm so pumped after that hardhome scene I want to watch it again right now.

lol fair enough although I don't think anyone is saying they are "entertained" by rape. Rather, they choose not to draw bigger conclusions about the show or our society outside of the narrative. Although I am still confused as to this notion that has been brought up by several people that D&D have "overused" rape. It's not like they're injecting it into every scene here.

Agree to disagree on Sansa, imo shes no less developed now than she was in the books following Baelish's lead in the Vale, but maybe that's just my recollection. In fact I think there are several characters in the books that haven't necessarily grown or developed at all. Also with the necessity of storyline condensing in mind, Sansa's Vale material by itself doesn't provide enough room for other characters. I suppose they could have just not had her at all this season a la Bran. For sure there is/has been some filler that I don't like, but most of the material you bring up either didn't actually take up that much screen time- Greyssandei for all its hate has maybe consumed a total of 10 minutes of screen time these past 2 seasons or actually advanced a character's storyline in some way- you refer to Brienne as filler but in the show she has been more active with much less material than her book version; Jamie/Bronn has been condensed into Dorne, we may not like it but it would be difficult to find time to do both Dorne and Jamie's riverlands escapades without sacrificing other material.) IMO the only real egregius, nonsensical filler was the craster's material. It just plainly served little to no purpose at all.

Ah fair enough, I kind of read it differently but maybe I'm way off (it wouldn't be the first time haha) Still the words "handsome young man" and the way he said it just made it seem like he was referring to someone else imo.

I agree I like the Tyrion travelogue BUT if you want that in the show you have to identify at least 1 1/2 hours of other material this season you are willing to have cut and replaced with the introduction/development of the JonCon, young griff and septa characters and all of their backstories. It is a lot harder to include that when its at the expense of other storylines.

To take issue with Sansa's situation is silly because it's basically lifted from the Jeyne scene in the book, where by the way we see it only through Theon's eyes and thoughts. So was that scene somehow developing Jeyne's character? Or is it OK if it happens to a secondary female character but a not true Stark? If you are this critical of these types of scenes, do you give D&D credit for eliminated the Tysha story from the show? Because GRRM had her gang raped and abused by 50 men all just to further Tryion's plot. Instead D&D tried to put a real character (albeit one many viewers didn't like) of shae into the show who had real hopes, motives etc. All of this does not even touch on the fact that the show and book never said it was trying to be a bastion for social progress nor is the source material that by a longshot. This is why so many take issue with the folks trying to complain about the moral direction or intentions of the show. All most viewers want is to be entertained, not be told by others what they should approve or disapprove of.

To copy from Deadlines? What Deadlines?'s post (#900): Don't have Tyrion become the savior of KL only to have him fall from grace later. Don't have Cat say "We'll kill them all" in season 1 only have her life fall apart and cut her throat later. Don't have Robb kicking southron arse all over the river lands just to kill him off at a wedding. Don't make Oberyn a charismatic, likable kick ass character just to crush his skull. Don't capture Jamie Lannister just to cut him loose. The entire series is filled with characters making progress, giving hope to the reader and then promptly stealing it back. The point I do agree with you on is LF's motives here, they either don't make sense or haven't been fully revealed. Remember that in the books Theon is threatened by Mance and the spearwives to help rescue Jeyne, it's not as if he came to the decision himself. The only reason it seems that way is because in the books we're inside theon's head and witnessing the machinations at work. these other issues can be explained by the limited time the show has. Unfortunately everything has to be dumbed down to squeeze over 2000 pages into ten hours. Sure they could do some things better but its not as easy as some here make it out to be.

If I could somehow convey a standing ovation i would. But don't go crazy over it, some people choose to nitpick the most ridiculous of things. I've given up the debate on this and decided to each their own.

for book readers and those in the know sure, but for casual unsullied I don't think this is the case- the unsullied I know haven't come close to connecting the dots as far as I can tell. To be fair, I went through the first three books and didn't have a clue about r+l= j... now when I go back and reread it seems painfully obvious when presented with the clues. Also remember that a lot of the clues reader's get in the books are via inner monologues, dreams and memories spread across several characters. The show doesn't have the benefit of that, everything needs to be presented in either dialogue or action.

Lancel has acted nothing but completely pious/indoctrinated from the beginning of the season. Even his first interaction with cersei screamed of a person who has been unburdened of his guilt and sins. You would think if he was still harboring the secret all this time the actor (Eugene Simon) would have made a conscious choice to act more conflicted or like he was holding something back. Also, how does having Cersei imprisoned help Olenna free her grandchildren?

yeah there's been some debate as to what he was referring to, but imo it was NOT lancel. Its clear to me that lancel confessed all when he first entered the faith/got the star on his forehead. I think it was the first episode of the season where he briefly speaks with Cersei and Kevan is there- he seemed to indicate he was already free from his "burdens" then, which would play well into olenna's intuition about the high septon this week- if he knew all along about cersei's misdeeds then he's been playing her like a fiddle this whole time. It could be referring to Olyvar (the brothel snitch) and they somehow turn/disappear him, but im not sure if the HS would take that as a sign of the seven's mercy or guilt so i dont think that to be likely. Others have brought up Gendry but.... just not going to go there lol. Why would he use the term "handsome young man"- to me it signifies that hes try to prop up this person's eligibility as a suitor. to me that screams sweetrobin and that was my first intuition.

if drogon is not at the pit then I would argue it's quite possibly the biggest and most egregious deviation d&d will have made to date. There is a battle about to occur between stannis and the boltons, stannis is camped in freezing temperatures. Do you not think there is fire in his camp or the boltons? If I trip and fall tomorrow, my first reaction is not to blame a banana peel that I know to be on the other side of the world. But if your prediction is correct it will certainly be entertaining to watch, I will give you that.

if we're going the ambiguous route, then there are plenty of ways Jon could have gotten mances baby out of castle black, the reason he sent gilly was because it killed two birds with one stone. I still am asking what specific scenes have d&d added that were not in the books. You keep making it sound like these are in every episode but conveniently don't mention them or the fact that many of them happen in the books as well. Of course the scene was a shortcut, I mean they are condensing 2 entire books into ten hours of television here. Every scene is a shortcut- they need to have scenes that serve multiple purposes. Can you please explain another option for a 3 minute scene that accomplishes: - demonstrating gilly is not safe at the wall - a growing sect the NW brothers are not trustworthy (sets up Jon's betrayal) - reminding us ghost is still at the wall - reinforcement of sam's bravery/protectiveness of gilly. Because the 3 minute scene d&d came up with accomplishes these four things which all likely play a role in the narrative to come. I really feel like you are drawing an imaginary line here and making a mountain out of a molehill, but at the same time I can tell we are too far apart to find agreement, so I will just say I appreciate your passion and agree to disagree :)

ah yes your drogon in the north theory... I'm still curious how he'll have time to get from the fighting pit to winter fell in the course of one episode lol. No offense but IMO it was ridiculous last week and it's just as ridiculous now. Your secondary theory while a little more plausible is still overly complicated- If there's one thing the show does not do it's overly complicate things. Instead they dumb them down. But I applaud you for thinking outside the box.