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Saturno

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  1. lol, I thought the same, he not even had some random old dudes like the others
  2. Well, we really can't speak for book!Bran because he is just starting to use his powers, there is no material for analysis. But show!Bran basically was transformed into a computer, so it is easier to dismiss "human flaws". I mean, he literally never USED his powers, just watched everything without moving a finger or compelling people. With one exception: when he told the cast that the Night King was coming to get HIM specifically. But that was a threat to all existence, so I think we can let it pass.
  3. Saturno

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    Because I think in terms of individuals, as mainstream philosophy does. So I belive there is no rationality and moral legitimacy behind collective guilt, nor guilt by association. Here is a direct quote from Dany: Dany basically asked the mob to sort this out and arrest 163 Great Masters. Mob justice is not justice by definition, there are simply no tools or motivation or ways for a mob to correctly judge innocent from guilty. And we are not even taking into account the infinitude of different motivations and interests that can come into play on circunstances like this. A very common thing under mob rule is the practice of falsely accusing someone innocent of the crime only for personal gain. After WWII many french civilians falsely accused their own people of helping the nazi invaders only to have vengeance for petty things, personal grievances, debts and so on. Many french women who were first raped and then forced to become prostitutes to soldiers to feed themselves and their children were, after the war, rapped again or even killed by french mobs for supposedly "siding with nazis". In the Great Masters case there is not even a way Dany can sort out if her new prisoners are ACTUALLY Great Masters, as she received only bloodied prisoners that the mob promised were the evil nobles. And even if all of them were GM, what about the GM that took no part on the assassinations? One thing is to be born on a society based on slavery, this is something passive, you may rebel against it but it is the default system and you are just a cog. Another completely different thing is to organize in a structural hierarchy and voting on assembly, for instance, on the next course of action, that being the killing and crucification of children. What if there were Great Masters that voted against such measure? What if there was any opposition? What if there were sub-factions? We don't know and can't know. That's why George puts emphasys on the hollowness of Dany's action and the general feeling that the crucifixion was shallow and farsical.
  4. Saturno

    Who was Daenerys turned into?

    First because the Bells were a contrivance invented for this episode only. This just did not exist previously. Davos even mentions on the second season that he did not understand why bells were ringing and dismissed the idea of surrender as nonsense. Second because Dany's argument is: "if they serve Cersei as vassals they are guilty". This is nonsense and goes against Dany's initial notion of the Wheel. She wants to destroy the Wheel because monarchy opresses and hurts and forces people to obey. She is in the city to RELEASE the people from tiranny. She even says that after she burns KL on episode 6. So there is no actual difference, on these terms, between REAL chains holding prisoners, and abstract chains in the form of servitude/vassalage. Dany acted nonsensically. It was not even a case for hyppocracy, it is not even a question of being right or wrong. It was a glitch without logic.
  5. D&D are not actually wrong here. Making Dany into a tyrant was not ludicrous. But the way and the speed they did was ludicrous. Dany turning against the smallfolk was uncalled for. That talk of "they chose to follow Cersei" is completely nonsense and completely out of nowhere. During the battle she could have fly straight to the RedKeep, there was absolutely no reason for her to target smallfolk FIRST and Cersei SECOND. The inverse could be tolerable, but the way they did was too contrived and artificial.
  6. Saturno

    Who was Daenerys turned into?

    They had no way to escape, thus having no option, thus proving that Dany's rationalization is wrong.
  7. Saturno

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    Because I think that the main division between ideology (the extremes at least, not the nuances at the middle) is one of the mind. A third of the world is individualistic and think through that lens. A third is collectivist and think through that lens. The other third shifts through both sides accordingly to circunstances. I'm under the impression that you can't understand how could be possible for an innocent GM to exist among the selected 163. And I believe the only way to reason that way is being a collectivist person. And if that is the case I won't press my argument anymore because we can't think the same way.
  8. Saturno

    Who was Daenerys turned into?

    Well he did not have the means to burn Paris. He wasn't leading an army able to follow that order, for instance.
  9. Saturno

    Who was Daenerys turned into?

    I would say that she became a generic tyrant but will all the talk about redemtion, utopia, fairness and oppression I've felt a strong message against communism/socialism. It is the only political ideology these days which states "we need to kill these people to reach paradise" (or at least "we would have paradise if not for those people"). Nazism goes more like "we need to kill these people because they are scum" or "these people do not deserve to live among us".
  10. Yes, it affected me negatively. My brain understands that GRRM version of this will be much better written and thought, with things like consequences, depth, coherence, gravity, wit and style. But a not so small part of me fear that it will not be enough for the ending. And a increasingly bigger part of me fears we will have no ending at all, with GRRM not finishing the last book.
  11. I'm a bit confused about Drogon. D&D made him use his fire breath twice. The first looked like a scream of rage/grief, he blasted the walls randomly. But then he stopped for a second, looked at the throne and then used the breath aimed at the thing. I'm confused if this is just a beast destroying the throne by coincidence or a thinking creature shouting in pain and then being logical enough to understand that what really killed Dany was her obsession with the throne, destroying it only then.
  12. Saturno

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    There must be, it is very very very unlikely for an organization without a centralized leadership to take actions with full consensus. Look, this may look like an attack or something random, but are you socialist, or communist, or marxist or something like that? No judgements, but you are coming from a point that can only be made through a collectivist perspective. Otherwise it is impossible for you to consider that a collective of people is guilty of something. And if that is the case then really is no point of arguing, our brains just don't work at the same pattern of logic.
  13. Saturno

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    The quote you gave me confirms she selected 163 random Great Masters. It is the only logical conclusion as GRRM does not provide the means for her selection. She could have grabbed the first 163 GM her soldiers found, she could have arrested 300 and then selected from this number, etc. We can think of many ways, but the aim of her move was just to reach 163 GM, disregarding everything else, there was no principle for selection beyond being a GM.
  14. Saturno

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    You are simultaneously arguing that the bloodshed was necessary and unnecessary. That can't be. If the 163 are guilty the bloodshed is necessary. If there are innocents among them it was unnecessary. In this example guilty/innocent and necessary/unnecessary are linked.
  15. Saturno

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    Think about it. If all of them, as a caste, are guilty of the crime then why only punish 163? Dany had no way to find the truth, so she had no way to deliver justice. That's kinda the theme of this little arc: that sometimes there is no possible way to make justice and any option will be unjust to someone.
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