LordStoneheart

@ghost, I think I said it before, but its the set up that bugs me... tease giant attack, show aftermath of giant attack. like, what if the Oberyn duel started with the spear twirling cut away to another beetle story and came back to them both lying on the ground bloody? Not a perfect example since the Elia Bowl had a lot of plot weight and important character dialogue, but still. suggest action, don't deliver, show aftermath... I can understand why they take this approach in a lot of the more complicated scenes but I'll never like it...

Can I revote after my rewatch? My initial reaction might not be fair.

I hadn't considered that... I mean, after Oberyn's eyes I could probably handle any death now, but a giant fight might sound even more crunchy

We didn't get to see Donal's death, sure, but I don't think we got to see the second right before his death either. A lot of the stuff we don't "see" in the books we can see in the show. One benefit I can definitely give the show, although sometimes they waste it horribly (Loras and Sansa wedding talk anyone?) I'm just saying, why tease a giant vs humans brawl when only the aftermath is shown?

Actually, you know what irks me most about Grenn's death? We didn't see it. We didn't see a human/giant brawl fight. It's just like the season 2 end/season 3 beginning nonsense. Set up something big, go back to it when its over for... budget cuts, maybe? I feel like that proves Grenn's death was for shock value.

@sj4iy, I'm really not sure... go through all the facts we know about every night's watch member besides Jon and Sam. Show-only facts. The list is short. They may be familiar faces but I'm not sure if the effect is powerful. Total praise to John Bradley though. Some lines I thought were cheesy, but delivered in such a Samwell way I liked them.

Is it safe to say the acting carried Blackwater above the action whereas the action seems to carry the Wall more than the acting? Because as a book reader I can say that I care about a lot of these characters (Grenn why????????? :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl: :bawl:) but I swear, the show-only viewers probably have no one there to root for but Sam and Jon, plus Ghost who made one last-second CGI kill... I guess Gilly they probably can care about too. But really, compared to Blackwater, the characters just don't seem to hold up.

After some time to let it sink in (and a rewatch tomorrow maybe) I think its better than I originally said... but idk, something just really feels off. I can't describe it right. Maybe its overhype, or maybe its just general disinterest in the Wall since... well, since the show began. I love it in the books, but I swear, if D&D had enough power to just drop whole storylines it might just be the Wall. It's always seemed lackluster compared to the rest of the show and finally putting in a Wall-heavy episode doesn't seem to make up for that. Plus, the star power is very lacking here. As for book purists (which I generally am not, I only defend them) they really do have the right of it. There are so few changes that are necessitated by the page-to-screen transition. Some are understandable and some reek of the showrunners wanting to attach their own credit to someone else's work (well, even more so than an adaption in the first place.) Plus, there's a big difference between "quality literature" and "quality television." The difference being quality. Which will always go to literature. :P

You guys are saying "book purist" like that's a bad thing. Why is pointing out the flaws in a very flawed show so angering? "Book purist haters" are definitely more annoying at this point and are defending a low quality product. Or perhaps you're all too sensitive and can't accept that this show is a poor representation of superior books?

well... isn't that everyone's problem with aDwD? lol

I... I don't know. I'm at such a loss for opinion here. there were some great visuals, great acting, the fight scenes seemed choreographed well enough, though its not my strong suit to judge... but why does it feel so underwhelming? If they tried to recreate Blackwater, I think they failed. I don't know exactly where its off... but if my sister who doesn't read the books actually hated it or felt cheated of a good episode, I think something is definitely wrong.. I give it a four for that anticlimactic ending, useless death of Grenn, very messy battle scene in the front of Castle Black, and the useless death of Grenn. I know I repeated myself.... Oh, and one more reason. the death of fucking Grenn!!!!!! RAAAAGGGGGEEEEEE!!!

I assumed Mance meant the White Walkers, not the wights. I did make a post about this very thing, but it's not approved yet.

The best part of this episode was that it seems we're saying goodbye to that waste of space Hot Pie. As soon as they left him I looked at my sister and said "there was so many times I wanted Arya to just kill him." Good riddance. I'm actually surprised how much love he gets on these forums. The Blackfish was perfect, Edmure was alright. Wish they would've had him actually hit the boat like the books... I think? Loved that the Rhaegar line made it in. Was my favorite Jorah mormont.... I mean moment. I'm really not liking the Theon story line just because if it turns out Boy is Ramsay, he might gets fans. And no one should like Ramsay. Kudos to the attempted rape scene too. While a bit scary, it shows they're willing to portray any horrible thing. Here's hoping for some flaying. And lastly, I hope the majority of us were glad to see Kingslayer get his hand chopped. Just wish it was his head (another one that surprises me with the amount of fan love.) Not sure if I was too impressed with Nicolaj's scream, seemed to be more surprised than in pain. But Nicolaj is a great Jamie. All in all, I'll give this episode a ten. But damn my lagging computer, I accidentally voted an eight on the other post.