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wolfmaid7

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About wolfmaid7

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    Remnant Bride.
  • Birthday 08/26/1980

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    Female
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    Under the sea where the Crows are white as snow
  • Interests
    Mythology, Cultural Anthropology, Global Health, and Epidemiology.

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  1. wolfmaid7

    Heresy 210 and the Babes in the Wood

    Oh yeahhhh.I forgot CHs showing up in time to "save the day" Sam might have been unwilling to go off with him had they not be in danger and had CHs not given assistance from the get.
  2. wolfmaid7

    Heresy 210 and the Babes in the Wood

    My thing with some of old Nan's stories are somethings she could never know. Unless she spoke to an "other" she can't know what they are attracted to.you are correct in that Gilly makes no distinction between a WW and a wight. They all seem to be "others" to these characters, but it is an interesting train of thought on what Small Paul could have been tracking. I doubt it was just the "stink o life" though scarce life could always be found beyond the Wall. However, the horn? Now that's a nice thought.
  3. wolfmaid7

    Heresy 210 and the Babes in the Wood

    That isn't entirely accurate...Cat in that one internal monologue is relaying a lot of info many she didn't know first hand. Again context is everything 1. During her first year of marriage, she found out.Not that he had, she only found out during the first year Ned got some girl pregnant chance met on campaign. The qualifier of it being on campaign changes somethings. There are no rumors of Ned having a child before the rebellion. Even though in reality he could have gotten a woman pregnant and no one knew about it. The point is there has been no talk of Ned with a child before the rebellion. All of a sudden there's talk of Ned having a child. Based on that, the obvious conclusion to be drawn by Cat based on the info she got at the time and when she got the info . The only thing she could think of is what she thought. Ned had a child "on campaign." It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face. That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. "Never ask me about Jon," he said, cold as ice. "He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. Given the bastards grow faster explanation created by Luuwin; I'm thinking Cat after getting a glimpse or two of Jon thought something was a bit fishy. The info she got about Ned fathering a child during the campaign may have been wrong because clearly, this child is farther along in age than she thought. What is also interesting is Ned's statement: Don't ask about Jon. This adds to what I've said Ned has never volunteered info about Jon and if any question was brought up about Jon. He got angry, dismissive, or he never answered at all. Except in the case when Arya told him about the two wizards in the dungeon. That is the only moment he freaked out.
  4. wolfmaid7

    Heresy 210 and the Babes in the Wood

    Nahhhhh GRRM didn't mess up. He did exactly as he meant to. Ned has said nothing regarding Jon's mother and that was the most genius move he could have made. Let people formulate their own opinion. Characters in the story have speculations and assumptions based on a belief in Ned's romantic relationship with various women. 1. Ashara Dayne ( the name Cat heard whispered in WF as a possibility). 2.Fisherman's daughter( Stannis threw this in Jon's face and Davos heard this as well) 3. Some girl chance met on campaign ( Cat heard this before reaching WF) 4. Some Dornish peasant girl or Ashara per Cersei. 5. The one slip up according to Robert Ned ever had and Edric's pick...Wylla. Anyhow it's sliced, Ned sacrificed his honorable moniker the moment he acknowledged Jon as his bastard son. Every time Ned's honor came up it was noted after that even he fathered a bastard so his honor had its price.
  5. wolfmaid7

    Heresy 210 and the Babes in the Wood

    This is the thing though, I don't think GRRM was "setting" up a scenario that Jon was older. That was always there in the text. It just got overlooked and thrown on the back burner by fans because of preconceived notions by about who Jon's parents were. The fault isn't GRRM being all cloak and dagger the fault was with us. It was plain as day that if the FM story is true that Jon would be the oldest son. It was very evident if the rumor about Ned and Ashara at Harrenhal is true Jon is older. He always was older, we just ignored the not to subtle text that he was. The fact that Robb is dead and Bran and Rickon are believed to be dead by him have no bearing on what was always there. If and when Jon finds out about his parentage and it turns out not Ned isn't his father the last thing on his mind would be " Oh I'm older than Robb."I mean that won't matter to the situation. Then we should also consider Jon is of a particular mindset pre getting stabbed. As long as Sansa is alive and he knows she is, he will deny WF. as he's always done. Let's say Rickon does show up( i think he will sit in WF as Jon's counterpart it's all about the black and white wolf) and Jon is alive, has all his faculties if it's in his power to help and he could, he would help Rickon sit WF's seat instead of wanting to take it. Rickon is a legitimate heir who the North would rally to and he has a wildling as a protector and advisor. People are looking at Jon to unite the North and bring in the Wildlings. Rickon could do the very same thing. Jon's path to me lay elsewhere and that's deep within the earth.
  6. wolfmaid7

    Heresy 210 and the Babes in the Wood

    Just stopping in to say hi. How are you all doing? Glad to see Heresy still going strong. To follow in the line with FFR though it may be a bit of a segue, I've always thought and still think its a matter of perspective. In this case, the only perspective that matters is Ned. Ned by his silence put Jon in a pretty sweet spot because there are several ideas on who Jon's mother could be. A fisherman's daughter at the beginning of Robert's rebellion, a supposed girlfriend he could have hooked up with at any time; as long as those on the outside had their notion no one with the exception of Cat is going to be concerned about Jon's true age. This is where thinking from the perspective of a reader instead of a character is a disadvantage. As long as everyone thought Ned was Jon father and there were prospective mothers being flouted in actuality Ned could have hooked up with these women at any time, especially Ashara. Ned being thought of as Jon's father is all the protection Jon needs because there are enough women that Ned had dealings with for people to speculate. Therefore, and I've said this before the key is not trying to make a theory fit facts. 1. The whole bastards grow up faster is a huge clue. It was the only way to explain Jon's progress in relation to Robb. Everyone in WF who was around when Ned brought home knows Jon is older than Robb, Cat knows it too but there are pretenses too uphold. Keeping Jon in the dark about his true age was for Robb's benefit and really knowing that wasn't going to make Jon's life easier. 2. Ned keeping things close to the chest is another huge clue. The man has told no one anything and I mean no one.he's just let everyone believe what they want regarding Jon's mother. And what people believe is based on rumors and assumptions. have happened at Harrenhall.No one is thinking Ned and Ashara could have hooked up any time after that. 3. Pegging down a time is out the window. In the story, if characters buy the FM story Jon is older than Robb. For those who buy Ashara then he was conceived at Harrenhal and definitely older than Robb. Based on what characters in the story believe given the women Ned was thought to have been with; Jon's conception could have occurred between Harrenhall and the beginning of Robert's rebellion. This is solely based on what characters think they know.
  7. wolfmaid7

    Heresy 208 Winter is Coming

    Just dropping in to say hi and happy mother's day to all the moms of Heresy. Sorry, I haven't been around been super busy lately with work .
  8. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    Place holder.
  9. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    What does Ned cheating on her have to do with this. Where is it shown that 1. She believes this. 2. More importantly that Ned told her that Jon was born after Robb. If we are asserting Ned isn't Jon's father.Nothing he did with any other woman has any bearing on when Jon was conceived or born. What I am trying to get at is what Cat believes and why.Lastly,what is the basis for her belief.Is it because she knows this which could only happen from Ned( you have to show that he told her) or was Jon's age eventually decided for reasons having to do with Robb? I will put the texts later to show what I mean.
  10. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    May I interject with a disagreement.The argument of anyone noticing a difference between Jon and Robb as children has always been very strange to me for a few reasons. It seems based on a few assumptions. The only reason Cat could find something strange about Jon's age compared to Robb's is if she knows when Jon was born. There is no indication Cat knows this or more importantly that Ned told her when Jon was born. Without this info Cat is in no position to think anything other than what she thinks she already knows. That Ashara or some girl Ned met on campaign may be Jon's mom. Jon could have been two years when he showed up at Winterfell and it wouldn't be strange.As long as Ned said he was the father. So why are we saying Cat would have notice the difference in age when there is no basis for which she would notice.
  11. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    I don't even recall Edric saying Jon was there with Wylla.Or that anyone observed him there.Only that she was his mom. I would expect someone in between to say something. I'm trying to work the following out mentally.Hypothetically speaking did he bypass Riverun and not see his newborn son and Cat.Or Hypothetically speaking did he go by a different route?
  12. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    Again, it is an opinion.....( In this case yours) that what "people" put together over the years are "the clues" and interpreted correctly.I never once made any such claim that other readers followed the same process as me to discover something. Not only is that incorrect,it has nothing to do with the argument. I also made no assertion on anyone's behalf. I am simply repeating what other posters themselves have stated. I then said to you, do a search on the forum. See how many people: 1. "Said" they went to the RLJ thread and were convinced by what was put as clues 2. How many people went with RLJ despite the flaws. 3. How many people never took it as the answer and had something else in mind. Ahhhh, you are one of those who believe Lyanna died at the toj after giving birth to Jon there. I'm sorry but (and this is my fault). A large part of the RLJ theory is the toj. So let me say, regarding the toj, that location and any scenario that involves it doesn't give any insight into who fathered Jon. We can't put Lyanna and or Rhaegar at anytime there together. 1. The idea that Lyanna was there comes from Ned's dream. All elements in Ned's dream because it is a dream;need not have happened in the same space and time. 2. I charge you to find me any where in the text by a reliable narrator that shows Ned with Jon in between Dorne and Winterfell.He supposedly traveled from Dorne with Howland and a wetnurse all the way to WF.He dropped off Barbery's horse.They had to eat,rest do all of these things in between that journey.Find me anyone who claims that they saw Ned with a baby and a woman. There is no way ,absolutely no way after having lossed Lyanna would Robert Baratheon let Ned take his son to be raised at WF.That would never happen, are you forgetting who we are talking about? Robert " I am the king" Robert? This is what Robert would do,he would make Jon his heir. He would still marry Cersie under Jon Arryn's advice ( to keep Tywin in check). And Jon would never make it to his third baby because Cersie would have had him killed.We don't have to guess what hee choice would be.We know what she would do. "She saw at once that Ned had reached a very different conclusion. "The only truths I know are here. The south is a nest of adders I would do better to avoid." The above is what Ned felt about court,why would he have wanted Jon in that? Consider Cat's statement,Jon was already settled at WF by the time she came home when the wars were over. Ned could have brought Jon from around the corner for all we know. When you are speaking to people who don't subscribe to RLJ it would help if you not project the tenants of that belief to the other arguement. This is why you and i are having a hard time communicating.You don't have to believe what i do ,but in order to uunderstand you need to find out if a reader believes the fundamentals on which RLJ stands are in fact what they believe. E.g. The part i bolded and underlined is a prime example. RLJ believes that Lyanna extracted a promise from Ned to protect Jon "from Robert".So obviously, to you the promise has to be something specifically along those lines. I don't believe Lyanna went into such specifics , a general plea when it comes to that would suffice. 1. I wan't to lie nex to Brandon and father. ( That alone tells us that she wanted to be buried at home.Short simple and you get the point.She is on her way out. I wan't to show you a parallel: "I promise." Promise me, Ned, Lyanna's voice echoed. "The girl," the king said. "Daenerys. Let her live. If you can, if it … not too late … talk to them … Varys, Littlefinger … don't let them kill her. And help my son, Ned. Make him be … better than me." He winced. "Gods have mercy." The above is Robert's death which was super-imposed on Ned's memory of Lyanna's death.Here we see Robert pleading for Dany's life.An innocent child that was not his.... But here's the part i want you to keep in mind.He also asks Ned to make a simple promise that encompasses a lot. " Help my son,Ned.Make him be....better than me." That is an open ended promise on which the specifics of how that was carried out depended on Ned. He excercised it in this way by not even thinking of Cersie's kids.He in his mind thought of Robert's bastards. So what does this have to do with what Lyanna may have asked Ned? There is no need to invent and create a boogey man from which Jon needs to be saved,especially if nothing is pointing to that except fan speculation. A simple " Ned watch over my son." To which Ned would be the one who decided how best to " watch over Jon." Enter "his" reasoning for never wanting Jon to be raised with Robert. No no no, i went back and looked at my post i said " the author has written it whereby it is Robert's children that were and still are in danger from Mad Cersie.This is the current story...She laments that Cat has left her to deal with Jon Snow,and we have a true statement from Tyrion on how Cersie hated Robert so much she would kill anything that was his.How much now would she hate Jon Snow.The son of her husband by a woman whose name he would call out in bed. A woman who Cersie affirmed that Robert was still in love with. You are doing it again. We can't look at what we might have done or what Ned should have done.I am telling you what Ned thought and believed that is not ever going to change.You can't get around that. Still looking at things through RLJ lens. TTHE,you are making complicated something that need not be. Ned is honest about why he isn't taking Jon south. We see societal and political reasons why he wouldn't want to get Jon tied up in the madness in the south if he were Robert's. Its not a smokescreen, you are inventing something to fit another. Cat made it clear that overtime she grew to love Ned,and i'm pretty sure it would have taken time for that to delvelop on Ned's part as well. He had no reason to tell Cat anything regarding Jon's parentage. The same reason he wouldn't tell her if Rhaegar was Jon's father is the same reason he wouldn't tell her if Robert was his father.Either way it has nothing to do with anything regarding Jon's protection. It comes down to this,for what possible reason would Ned have to tell Cat be it Rhaegar or Robert. He would be telling her for???? The bolded is incorrect.Read the context of Ned's jail house lament. It was in response to his auditory hallucination of Robert's query. " How did we get here? You in jail and me killed by a pig." What ever Ned lied about would have changed the course of where they both ended up. Also,Robert was seconds away from death, telling him about Joffrey when he was about to die would have accomplished nothing except pulled Percy from "Green mile" on Robert. . In fact Ned outright stated:" It is your reasoning that is flawed my friend.Why would Ned be sorry about NOT telling his friend something that would obviously hurt him? You didn't want to hear. There is nothing muddled or incoherent about saying something being obvious a point of view. If posters say RLJ is obvious it offends many. it is a matter of opnion based on individual factors.None of which matters in the end because it all comes down to what GRRM says. His goals about constructing a mystery re: His nana. His wife's own statements on this mystery tells me. 1.If RLJ is the answer GRRM's nana would have figured it out in no time and that can't be reconciled. 2. Parris says her hubby doesn't do obvious and what point of view she is speaking from. She thinks its obvious. How hard is that to grasp? Not hard, you want to hear something and you aren't so you are grasping. You didn't ask that didn't you? You asked why has Ned not thought so? But i will bite with two or three examples. Ned would find a way to say something right? or think and do something right? E.g. Ned made it a habit to talk to Jon often about Robert,whom he elevated in Jon's eyes over everyone ( a giant among princes) now who "princes"on the Trident could Ned have been speaking about? This scene is beautifully written. It is that of a best friend telling a son about his father in his own way. He couldn't tell Jon that Robert was his dad,but he made damn sure to hype Robert in his eyes;telling him how awesome he was. Then we have this: This is Ned thinking of how in famous Robert's lusts was before entering the brothel where his bastard was.. you know? Of the girl who evoked Lyanna for Ned. Happening on seperate pages is one fluid scene by Ned.Whose lusts was he speaking of before going to visit said brothel? You also mentioned something about moments of being nervous etc. The following is the next couple of chapters but again its like one scene. And you say you wanted to see some kind of concern.The double entendres are just too priceless here.Other than that,this freaked Ned out. I do not think i need to explain this or why Ned is freaked out. You didn't quote anything. you keep misrepresenting what i said or not quoting parts at all.So let's leave it that. You are doing it again.You flippantly used something i said to RLJ ers thinking "the earth was flat" . I 100% used the term the earth is flat but you misrepresented what i said. I said plainly to paraphrase at one point those who thought the earth was flat were the majority.That thinking and them being in the majority didn't change the fact that they were wrong. Its as simple as that. You somehow got it twisted that i was calling RLJers a name or saying something personal against them.No i wasn't. The constant misrepresentation is what i called dishonest because i felt....I am using an "I" statement that you were doing it intetionally. Again and i am repeating myself. I didn't reject it because it was obvious. I told you flat out there were things about the theory that bothered me. I wouldn't reconcile it and just swept those things under the carpet. It wasn't really interested.There was a time on here Jon's parentage was the answer to everything wrong with Westeros.But I has Other mysteries to devout time to. I didn't do this for Jon's parentage but i did do this when it came to the Others.Why that is important is because reading the text i knew what history said about the Others and i knew to doubt the eye witness account. The same flaws at the core regarding the Others were the same flaws that came to mind when i saw "RLJ" the only difference was.. At the time i was more interested in the Others and showing proof for that theory to really care about RLJ like that. Lastly, you have failed,failed to counter my texts with anything remotely feasible. Every rebutal you have had has been thrown down by text because "your" reasoning is flawed.It is flawed because you think the fundamentals of RLJ is a one fit all that needs to be answered for you to see merit. 1. You like so many others have conclusions, and you make that RLJ instead of just not contorting text. 2. You somehow think Ned could see through glass candles or something and so you answer in terms of what you think should have or could instead of just simply looking at what was and is. To quote The Matrix " One cannot see pass the choices one already made. Ned had a belief based on culture,religion,politics and he made choices that reflect those beliefs. As time went by he still kept a watchful eye and made choices based on what Cersie did. I am not saying that IMO Wylla,Ashara,FD aren't red herrings.You get no disagreement from me on those.I'm saying a red herring is more than just a name(s) being thrown out for people to follow. Note: No disrespect to anyone who believes that Ashara or Wylla is Jon's mom. Again what is a red herring: something especially a clue, that is or is intended to be misleading or distracting.
  13. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    No I am not.....That was clearly not the context. She said her husband doesn't do obvious.Nowhere did I say you have know about her.How is that suppose to help?I said don't dismiss her statements nor GRRM. As to taking into consideration his other works.That is helpful in seeing his style and use if various devices. This comment about the writer's style is not an oddity.Go on RLJ and you will see several statements regarding his style and the like. The reason why some people say its obvious is because they have points of reference. I'm not the first to say such a thing.So why sound so shock?
  14. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    A question, where does it say in the text by reliable sources who would know that Ned brought a baby back from Dorne? Didn't Cat say when she arrived at WF Jon and his wetnurse were already settled in? So Ned traveled all the way from Dorne with his sister's remains,a wetnurse,Howland, dropped off Barbery's horse and no one at any point sees him traveling with a woman and a baby?
  15. wolfmaid7

    Why do book readers hate R+L=J?

    Whatever,lets stay on topic. You never asked why i believe Robert is Jon's father.The two questions i was asked i answered and i said this isn't a place to go into all the reasons why i believe. My thread doesn't even go into all the reasons. You speak with another's mouth and if other's are using colored fonts why can't i? I already did,and to reiterate it is 100% better whether than your reasoning which is have Jon be Targ first and then fit everything else in.this is what RLJ is. Not unneccessary,but i agree it would be hard to forgive.Ding ding ding.Well look at that. What are you talking about? Robert is not a danger to his bastards.Where ever are you getting that? Again where are you getting this notion that Robert is a danger to his kids? I never said that.What you think Ned might do is irrelevant.Ned already has told you what he thinks regarding life an court for bastards and one of the reasons why Jon wasn't going to go.You don't have to like it,but it is what Ned believes. My point wasn't muddled you are just being dishonest. Post all text provided and not just some to get context. Ned provides the reasons why Robert's bastards aren't at court.....He flat out notices through the years and states they aren't there because of Cersie.What part of that aren't you getting? The look Ned gave her was anguished. 1."You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard's name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned." Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband's eyes. "They say your friend Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself."2. And none of them has ever been seen at court!" Ned blazed. "The Lannister woman has seen to that. The above is two reasons why Ned says Jon isn't going to court and why Robert's bastards aren't welcomed. You can't get anymore clearer than Ned telling you "whys" The writer has given us several texts that shows Cersie to be a past and present threat to all Robert bastards. Soooooo Ned lying when the arguement is for RLJ is in character??? Ok i gotcha. Let me give you a text to that reply about Ned lying to Robert being out of character and poor reasoning. So what were you saying with that? Ummmm if he thinks of Jon being rober'ts that would be giving it away duhhhh!!! Actually Jon is hidden when Robert turns up at WF. Though Jon assumes Cat is the reason. Actually he was on the opposite side of the hall in the back. I would like you to read all the descriptions of Robert's children,down to Mya in the Vale. Their black hair or blue eyes isn't the least of what is said about them. Then compare what you find to what is unusuall about Jon. To quote Syrio: " You look without the seeing. I didn't say "you" are potash i said arguements are. I don't attack people as you are now. I am very certain i didn't misrepresent what i said. you are just choosing not to quote it in context which is not incoherent. I take GRRM at his word. i take his previous works into consideration and i take his wife's opnion more than yours. Again, now you are just being insulting and we have nothing more to say. I haven't attacked you personally or anyone.Let's leave this at that. I reject it because it failed to reach GRRM's standard. I was asked two questions. Who i believe his parents are? And Why Ned didn't give Jon to Robert. The answers i gave to those two questions despite your dishonesty was wayyyy better and more textual than the reason given by RLJ and you. It doesn't require belief that Robert and Lyanna are Jon's parents beforehand.It doesn't need the conclusion to lead you to the conclusion. It is taking Ned at his word,exactly what he says and seeing exactly what he thinks and why. To put this "it obvious debate to rest." Do you think GRRM's nana could have figured RLJ out? You take Paris's statement into consideration? Do you take GRRM's word and his other works into consideration? If you are honestly answer those questions then you should have no gripe about me saying( based on all these,how i solved this so call mistery) that IMO,its obvious. If you don't care then why agree to be second party in a conversation? Also, how exactly am i mocking RLJ believers? So what, RLJers can call other posters theories crackpots and worse.make statements "about posters" and that's ok.However, the moment someone calls it obvious or a red herring you all get butt hurt? Come on man be fair. Read the definition of what makes a red herring a red herring.
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