DaveyJoe

some say that dude who went crazy after the wildlings and the crows came fighting each other in the kitchen and came with that larg meat knife is actually three fingers -Hobb ??????!!!!

Hobb was mentioned earlier in the season so yeah, I think that was supposed to be him.

Hello, I am a lurker here - I have read books 1-4, and started 5, but stopped. I am now reading book 4 over again, and will attempt to finish book 5 this time around :read:

I thouroughly enjoy reading everyone's thoughts here after the episodes air!

I have a question - I read a lot of the pages here, and haven't seen it mentioned, so forgive me if it has been!

Eli Roth tweeted about the lastest episode yesterday, and he mentioned a 'cameo'... WHO HAD A CAMEO?? (sorry if this is the wrong place for this question).

I think Neil Marshall is one of the archers on the wall. Here is a picture of Marshall: http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/neil-marshall-black-sails.jpg

Honestly this episode was a great achievement in television. GoT has raised the bar yet again. People being up in arms because the show didn't change the books and shoehorn Stannis into this episode is sad. This episode was about the Night's Watch, and it was great.

I just saw the ep and I am so fucking angry and disapointet !! the first time in my life when I watch an episode from got and not go and rewatched quickly !!

not just because of Stannis let me tell you what did I saw worng and let me know if you agree

first I thought this episode will finlly show us Jon snow the commander ! the leader !! instead they gave all the awasom scenes and speaches for Aliser thorne !!!!!!!

in the book there was that fucking perfect speach from Jon snow !! we didnt see enough of Jon leading and commanding this episode he was lost same as everyone esle !!

I didnt like sam running away after everyone I felt they didnt know what to do with him !!

all the episoede was fighting without any point I am not saying that I didnt like these scenes I enjoyded but they could have let half the episode with sam going to Manc and show us something about ( Jourman horn - his pregnant wife and her sister ) then stannis arrivil ! we waited along time for this episode then they just gonna split it like this !! I just dont see the rest of the wall events that still to come is fitt to the finale !!

now the finale is going to include the rest of ( Bran - Arya and the hound - tyrion with jaime and varys and tyrion and shea - dany - brinne and pod - LSH ? - the rest of the wall sotry - Jon to be LC )

someone explain this please :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/12/122165/2587701-9733518266-13834.gif

Tho, to be fair, the NW could've easily won the fight if their cook joined the fight. But dude had to finish his stew.

Hobb the cook was a total badass. :bowdown:

I am not a fan of Stannis at all and still though it was filler. I don't care about Sam's love life, especially when it is written so badly as it was in this episode.

Ok.

Yeah I think Sam was a highlight of the episode, he's really coming into his own, and he had some great one liners. I love Sam and Gilly and people here are calling it filler because their favorite character, Stannis, wasn't featured. Terrible. 50 minutes of fighting would be bad television without the character scenes to actually make viewers care.

Also Tormund was a total beast.

I cant wait for 2 minutes of Stannis and the final 15 minutes being Dany crowd surfing slaves while a dragon screeches. Again.

Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xv9Emwi1Cc

Dany got 4 and a half minutes in Mhysa.

Pretty much.

There were complaints about the Meereneese wholesale crucifixion, even though it had more screen time than in the books, looked appropriately gruesome, and showed Dany as more bloodthirsty and more reason-resistant than in the books, as being "glossed over" as a part of consistent "whitewashing" of Dany.

I remember, also, someone complaining that show!Stannis' reaction to Davos smuggling his nephew away did not include his famous "cart before the horse" line, even though in the book he said that much, much later, after the whole business with the Battle Beneath the Wall.

And now, as I see, some already complain in advance that the battle which took whooping half a dozen paragraphs in the book, in the show won't be appropriately epic.

Yeah, if the posters here were in charge the episode would not have been called "The Watchers on the Wall" but "The Mannis."

He's also kidding himself if he thinks GRRM has a sudden change of heart and had Stannis become a badass warrior that suddenly leads a van and goes into battle without a helmet, gutting his way through guards and being an overall badass. That's basically the opposite of how GRRM wrote Stannis, but yeah sure GRRM is the sole reason why that episode was great.

People don't care if the show is faithful to the books if the show makes their favorite character look cool. Blackwater Stannis was nothing like the character in the books. With The Watchers on the Wall, people are pissed that the show didn't rush the initial skirmish, downplay the Night's Watch, and make the episode about Stannis. People say D&D let their biases get in the way but if some of the posters here were writing this episode, Sam and Gilly would have been killed by Wildlings, Jon is about to killed by Mance, when Stannis swoops in a dragon, chomping on a cigar and says "Hasta la vista, Wildlings."

Blackwater was written by GRRM and directed by Neil Marshall. D&D had no or little control on that one, which is why it was epic.

You're kidding yourself if you think the Show Runners had little or no control over the biggest episode of their series to date.

Not really relevant to the discussion, but that prologue was one of my favourite chapters from all the books. It was a let down when they killed Varamyr Sixskins ahead of time on the TV series and now just replaced him with a Thenn warg. I do understand why it was done though, just thought they could have explored Varamyr's character a little more.

Varamyr hasn't been on the show, I can only assume you're thinking of Orell from season 3? Varamyr is in a casting call for the 5th season, so he'll be introduced next year!

I didn't feel like the battle at the wall earned a full episode the way Blackwater did, and I certainly don't think it needed to stretch out into the finale as well. I wish we had seen the Night's Watch making actual preparations in previous episodes instead of just telling us how many wildlings there are without ever showing us more than Ygritte's band of murderers.

I don't have strong feelings about Stannis, but his arrival would have made for a much stronger episode in my opinion. Not to mention that despite the previously reminding me that Mance exists, I almost ended up believing that Tormund would just replace him since there was no sign of anyone caring about him until the last few minutes.

Why not? If you have read the books you should know what the events at the wall are ultimately more important than whoever's ass is on the iron throne.

This and episode 6 and 7 are the shortest of the season. Makes no sense why this is the shortest episode.

Pacing.

Yeah, I know that... But, one has to wonder why two giants didn't just lift the gate and people made it permanently opened? This was a plot hole if there ever was one...

How is that a plot hole? Two giants could have lifted the gate for what? A mammoth to lead the charge through the tunnel lead by regular wildlings? The beast of burden is there to provide brute strength, the rest are there for their skills in battle.. Let the mammoth rip the gate down so the rest can save their strength for actual fighting. Nothing about this is a plot hole.

Yeah, but you and donkey are not of the same efficiency... Here, it was positioned that way that the mammoth and giant were the same. And what's weirder, giant succeeded in such short notice that it is almost hilarious.

They were trying to get the mammoth to rip the gate down to flood it for everybody to rush the tunnel. Again, it's a beast of burden situation. The mammoth is the strongest of the bunch, so have it rip the gate down, that plan failed, so the remaining giant lifts the gate and charges by himself. Just because he had the strength to lift the gate doesn't make it a plot hole. Giants are strong, but they have a mammoth, so have the beast rip down the gate and the giants can lead the attack through the tunnel.

As for the adrenaline... LOL... Nice way to fill the obvious plot hole. Congrats to you and your friends :cheers:

How is that a plot hole? If you have a book bag full of supplies you need to lug up the mountain, strap it into the donkey. If the donkey gets set on fire and runs away, you have to lug up yourself. If you have a beast of burden, take advantage of it so you can conserve energy.

I want to see who's going to say with a straight face there's nothing wrong with Stannis' treatment on the show. They spend nearly 10 minutes on Sam and Gilly, yet the episode ends in an anti-climax because they can't have his big moment in an episode that is not already completely crowed.

More character bias, why shouldn't Sam be fleshed out? George Martin made him a POV character after all.

This was all about Jon's growth? yes, it can be said that way... But, this episode failed to make a nuance in that approach. It was basically "OK, here I am, nothing changed, let me take control" There were ways to make this episode better, even without being super purist about it. the structural issues, no fleshed out characters, some strange pause, and illogical gate subplot (why do they need a mammoth, when a single giant could have pulled it up?) Yes, Sam saying "open the fucking door" might have pushed the right buttons for some, and it was indeed funny, but at the end, that's just not enough.

There's nuance there, but you won't see it if you hate the approach. My friends were curious about the giant opening the gate on his own, but then we thought about and came to a consensus. He was running on adrenaline after being injured and watching his fellow wildlings and giant buddy die, and his mammoth run off in agony. It's like when a normal human finds the strength to lift a car off of a loved one. If you paid the same person a $1000 to do it for sport, it wouldn't be possible, but the human body can do amazing things when it's running off of adrenaline. Imagine what a Giant can do in a similar situation. Just because a Giant could theoretically lift a gate like that under certain circumstances, why waste your energy when you can have a beast of burden perform the same task? Have the mammoth open the gate so you can save your energy for the actual attack at the gate. When plan A fails spectacularly, go for plan B and open that shit yourself, because you're a giant.

Omg, ouch, that passive-aggressive burn really put us in our place lol

Sorry, it was wrong of me to be emotional and irrational in an environment like this.

Forgot to mention-- is it just me or have there been a couple of interesting mentions of "no one" and "no body" this season foreshadowing Arya's future? Per Sam, when you're nobody you're not afraid...

That wasn't in the books so it's probably poorly thought out garbage.

Exactly...Grenn and Pyp get sent off elsewhere in the books never to return. This way they get an emotional goodbye that adds drama to the show.

It also adds a level of weight to the battle that wasn't present during Blackwater. It's one thing that extras are getting killed off, but when known, likable characters are dying it seriously ups the stakes, and will make Stannis' charge that much more impactful.

And this was a good Jon Snow episode? I have no problem with Stannis not being there, I have not problem with the deaths, but this was epic failure. This was like wannabe-Blackwater, and ended somewhere in confusion of what makes a good episode with an epic battle. Nothing here was faithful to the books, and that even isn't the issue here. The issue is that this sucked as the episode, not as the adaptation. This was badly constructed, unimaginative, humorless, uninspiring... There was CGI on some moments, but at the end, nothing that would live up to "as big as Tv gets"

Yes it was, it was all about Jon's growing role as a leader. If you think this episode was humorless, I encourage you to rewatch it. The first fifteen minutes of the episode was full of great comedic relief, Sam particularly was a scene-stealer that could give Dinklage a run for his money.

Your not paying attention to what we are saying. Stupid filler scenes like Missandei's or the moron beetle crusher convo last week could have been cut and there could have been Wall preparation scenes...a lot of the stuff that was talk and not the actual fighting.

The storyline of the Battle at the Wall didn't all need to be shoved into one episode. Spread it out over two or three episodes so that the battle isn't rushed and Stannis can arrive. It wouldn't be rushed, it'd be just right.

I'm amazed that I see comments like this from people who have read the books. Character moments are not "stupid filler." It's a different medium, and it's smart that the show fleshes out supporting characters that are tied to the story instead of including everybody and making them all two dimensional caricatures. I personally loved the Grey Worm/Missandei and Sam/Gilly scenes because they fleshed out characters that have been established. Sam and Gilly are important to the Wall storyline so it makes sense that they'd get some moments in this episode, along with Maester Aemon. Just wait and see how Stannis is handled next episode, I promise you he'll be featured.

I advise you to drink a lot of coffee or red bull next week, because I have a feeling that if you blink a couple of times you might miss Stannis and his moment.

Thank you, but I will drink a full horn of ale dressed as Robert Baratheon as I do every week.