Castellan

I think the combination of the extra strong Valyrian steel swords, wielded by an undead person like Beric, (or Jon, Jaime or Brienne depending on future events) would work as a lightbringer, would not be shattered by the icy swords of the Others and could carry fire into their bodies to destroy them. Swordplay would still be involved because it would depend on whether the icy sword or the fiery sword was the first to pierce the opponent's defences. Or perhaps it needs to pierce their hearts. Or it could be that the VS swords, or a VS sword, in particular is useful against the great Other. We know a dragonglass dagger killed an Other so dragonglass daggers or arrowheads are another weapon. Is there something unique about Lightbringer/s compared with Dragonglass? Is it to use against the Great Other?

Going back to Alleras as sphinx, i had forgotten that Leo had named her that because she is a mixture of this and that - Dornish and Summer Islander, he says. i wonder if the cunning Leo has also figured out she's female, which is a major part of the Sphinx mixture in the legends from Greece, anyway. Leo seems pretty well ahead of his fellows on all counts, even if he's unpleasant. He breaks the news about dragons and mocks the rationale the Citadel orthodoxy has constructed re the lesson of the glass candles. I also looked up Brigantine and can see why she wears it, it would do a good job as a corset/chest flattener.

Didn't know GRRM denied being influenced by the Iliad. Jaime definitely has shades of Achilles in him. Tyrion references the Odyssey. Not to mention the name Cersei pronounced exactly like Circe. I keep meaning to put something up about some of these instances. Its these particulars that I noticed, I suppose if you wanted to you coud say the somewhat horrifying world of ASOIF constant struggle between life and death might chime with the broad content of the Iliad but I think that's so general I wouldn't think it means much or can be safely attributed to the Iliad. Referencing in fantasy fiction seems to be different than in traditional aesthetic literary fiction where it gives the reader hints as to context, theme, outcome etc. eg when to be educated in literature meant you would have studied the classics and have an educated audience in mind, then referring to a nightingale meant a particular thing, a harbinger of Spring. GRRM seems to use stuff and make it identifiable but its not necessary to recognise it to comprehend the story. Also, because he mix and matches from several sources it doesn't have predictive ability. I mean the character of Tywin seems to relate to at least two historical people - Richard Nevile, Earl of Warwick (the Kingmaker) from the War of the Roses and also William the Conqueror. William the conqueror I only twigged to because of the similar deaths, but there are other commonalities. I presume you'd have to look at particular instances where GRRM denies something. He would be trying to contradict a particular statement. I mean people grab a hold of an idea like 'this reminds me of the Iliad' and then run with it to something like 'therefore the message of ASOIF is blah blah blah'. It would be quite annoying and I presume in an interview the last thing he wants to be drawn into is half assed literary discussions. (that's our job on the forum!) He has repeatedly denied or downplayed similarities the Dorothy Dunnet series of historical novels The Game of Kings but I really can't see how he can deny that. On the other hand, he usually denies it while giving a nod to Maurice Druon's The Accursed Kings. Out of curiosity I downloaded a sample of one of the Druon books and immediately saw what he meant - there was a real similarity (I don't pretend to be able to pinpoint it). I just think although there's some influence from Dorothy Dunnett he probably thinks she's a bit naff and doesn't want to encourage comparisons.

I'd forgotten there was a Sphinx in the books, as well as a Griffin. Jon Con is well named as a Griffin as this creature was a guardian, composed of lion and eagle parts. Looking up sphinxes, I found that there were sphinxes in Ethiopa, who looked somewhat like Sarella 'Pliny the elder mentions that Ethiopia produces plenty of sphinxes, with brown hair and breasts, corroborated by 20th century archaeologists.' (Wikipedia) The Greek sphinx had a woman's head and breasts, and was seen as malign. The Egyptian male and benign. Doesn't say how the Ethiopian was seen.

I tend to think 'bride of fire' refers to her embracing fire, as she does when she walks into the funeral pyre. By embracing fire, she hatches the eggs, and becomes the Mother of Dragons. While apparently embracing death by stepping in to join her husbands corpse in the pyre, she is embracing life and fire.

I think saving the child was extremely important to Rhaegar. Possibly more important than winning the battle. Whatever he had learned in arcane research or visions made him place that value on Targ children. I can't remember how many companions Eddard rode to the TOJ with, but possibly Rhaegar anticipated that two KG would not be enough. In the event, three failed, but that is thought to be due to a dishonorable move by Howland Reed.

never thought of that. Brienne and Hodor are so why not them? But they are just so doggy (bad dog, good dog) that I find the idea distasteful. BTW who is it in the books or show who sees Hodor or Brienne or Dunk and thinks 'giant blood'? Or is that something I've made up?

the last season especially the last episodes were so bad that many viewers found them laughable. At least the ones I know said so, and that the show was being mocked online. I actually stopped watching after a few seasons and didn't go back to it. (I realise that sounds pretty odd for someone on this forum.) So I think when Diana Gabaldson is interviewed and says 'poor George' I assume she is sympathising with him for the travesty of the last season in terms of quality. There would be a way for characters to get to certain point that would make it seem plausible and moving and consistent but if you took that ending and worked towards it in an absolutely crass way and had time limits as to how you can get all the final points in it becomes ridiculous. I had the impression they just thought they'd cashed in enough and people would be glued to their TVs no matter what but perhaps I do them a disservice. I can see it would be extremely hard to do at all. Probably George's verbal summary would in fact have taken a few more series to work towards!

Re who is Young Griff if not Aegon, you can put me down as FAegon being Illyrio's son by whatshername. The one who's hands are in a jar.

Thanks that is what I intended when I started the post!

A is what I have thought it probably true since first reading, and think this partly because of the hints about Aegon possibly being Illyrio's son & and the idea Varys & Illyrio have Blackfyre blood and have bred a substitute king. I think I have no real opinion now, my mind is busted from the long wait for the next book.

I really don't think he has any intentions but revenge towards Cat and I think he only sees Sansa as a tool to help in his rise to power. He became a simply hostile and single minded person.

Back to the OP, I was remembering that the Freys are Lords of the Crossing and basically use that to get deals in return for allowing people to cross the river and that is the basis of their wealth and power (more powerful than the Tullys). They are deal makers and everyone knows that. Walder held back deciding which side to support and only supported Robb after making a good deal with several marriages attached. To simply break the major betrothal in that deal was in fact a slap in Walder's face. He was bound to abandon their cause. And having abandoned their cause, an opportunity to totally repudiate Robb and his allies and do Tywin's dirty work for him through mass murder and breaking guest right seems like a good deal to Walder. He may have had his eye on just what a vengeful enemy Tywin could be, a la Reynes, and outdid him. We all know that the Frey population explosion means Walder is desperate to get girls married off, but I just noticed in the wiki that Hoster Tully had previously refused a Frey bride for Edmure and had not attended Walder's latest wedding, and that the Arryn's had refused to foster some Frey children at court and had also refused to have Robert fostered at the Twins (not that Lysa would let him go anywhere but Walder's not to know that). So I suppose he already had simmering resentment on the whole topic of marriages.

Well I suppose that Eddard would absolutely never mention a midwife among the count of persons at the TOJ to anyone and the midwife might not necessarily appear in his memories of events there that we are are privy to. But I think its possibly just GRRM being a bit vague on practical things.

Like others in the thread, I'd go for security and choose the Reach. Some of the port towns have a romantic appeal though - White Harbor, etc You could see the ships come and go and sailors would bring news and novelties from foreign parts and around the seven kingdoms,

He is a bit slow but not enough to think that would work.

I agree, the fact that he didn't just take the sword to a defeated enemy house who received it formally then bad him a stiff farewell is pretty weird. But it probably doesn't require Arthur to have told Ned anything - Lyanna clearly told him things before she died. That would change Ned's attitude - but even though the Dayne's were Targ loyalists, how could he trust them with any information about Jon's existence? Especially if he had already decided, or promised, to keep Jon's real identity a secret? How did he explain him to them? Their household would talk, servants would hear. I have never understood the whole midwife issue. The TOJ is a long way from anywhere, including Starfell. A newborn infant needs milk NOW. Ned can't have come equipped with one and my understanding is that there weren't even any villages in the area - its basically a desert. Its on the Princes Pass, where there may have been some travellers, but still - the likelihood of getting any help for the child is slim. Not to mention the time it would take to demolish a tower and bury all those men. Even if it was a simple keep like Bran et al camped in on the way north - it would take a lot of time and effort for two men to even get enough stones off it, to cover the bodies let alone demolish the whole tower which seems to be implied. Meanwhile, the baby is screaming its head off MILK MILK MILK. These logistic details have always irritated me. All this vagueness makes me think there could be an important reveal. Unless its just GRRMs unworldliness - not knowing how slow travel by horse is, for example.

I wonder how much of the Red Wedding was Walder and how much was Tywin? I don't think it would have happened without Tywin's at least not opposing it. It is a bit reminiscent of the fate of the Reynes. Remember when Tywin can only say 'they have my son" after the defeat at Riverrun? And there was no way it was going to happen while Jaime was a prisoner, but as soon as Bolton sent word he was found, it happened.

Tywin never gave up on Jaime as his heir. His love for him is amazing, Jaime couldn't really alienate him, even when he said 'you are not my father' - he only hurt him. He doesn't seem to have ever actually reproached him for the idiocy of secretly joining the KG and becoming Aerys's hostage. re Tyrion - Randyl Tarly wouldn't let Sam be a maester either- and Barbry Dustin or someone made a comment about distrusting maesters, I think because supposedly they have given up their house loyalties but who knew who they really were or served? I think neither Tywin or Randyl would tolerate the idea of their son serving someone else's house. Tywin must have noted that Tyrion had talents and he made it pretty clear that it was the character he had developed (which was his fault for doing that to him & Tysha) that he wouldn't tolerate. (For that matter, he also wasn't going to see a son and potential heir nabbed by a crofter's daughter.) Tywin made it clear didn't he, that if Tyrion only stood up for himself and acted like a sober and serious member of society he would respect him. And Tyrion found it impossible to respect himself when he knew how much Tywin hated him being a dwarf. ho hum

I learnt a bit about medieval cookery including that recipes from that time often include spices in what we would consider huge quantities but this may be because they couldn't keep and transport them airtight so they were probably weakly flavoured by the time they were used. I don't know if 'learned' is correct. more like 'heard' as it may not be true.

To be fair, its hardly unique to this author or even an extreme case, and women read and write them too. Try reading Karin Slaughter. Its a horror show. I can't help fearing that some pycho will adopt some of the ghastly means of killing women that she has incorporated.

what a nightmare thread

"how long TWOW will be" you have faith! ! when I first got on this website there was a poster saying he did not want to join in abuse of the author, but he had started reading the series from first publication and was now 70. Extrapolating from the increasing intervals between the books he figured he'd be dead before TWOW came out. That was in 2012. Now I feel I am in the same boat, though I am not 70.

I can't cope with the whole nature of time business, myself, so back to the OP's quotes... I have always thought that it is Bran seeing Theon and responding through the heart tree and sending the leaf down as well. The response comes when Theon is finally humble and begs the tree for a sword saying he only wants to die an ironman and not as Reek. But his response to Bran's voice is fear and then self-justification saying 'they were only miller's boys' or something like that, showing Theon has a way to go yet. I noticed the cold in this section and thought it was the Godswood's reaction to him - hostile - but it soften's a bit, then rejects him again. The idea that it a sign that something is present or that something 'supernatural' is going to happen is more consistent with the cold being mentioned in Arya's section as well, though. I had forgotten Arya talking to the Gods but I must have read it because her rather childish and direct address to them "Tell me what to do, you Gods" rang a bell. I am not sure who I think is talking to her or if I have to be consistent with who is talking to Theon. I think she hears the wolf howl because the tree wants her to. Her wolf is the largest, healthiest and most aggressive and pack leader. Contrast Sansa who has lost her wolf. Whoever it is is reminding her to trust her wolf instincts. Her wolf is often relatively close by, roaming the same area, so a possible source of psychic strength. I tend to think when whoever it is speaks in her father's voice its not Ned but someone using his voice and advice as something that would comfort a child, a way to help her, just as they may have made the wolf howl. The voice quoting Syrio - I'd be inclined to think her brain is just replicating the good advice he has given her, interupting her confusion with what she's learned from him. But perhaps it is the first sign that something/someone is looking after her. Of course, its always possible that the weirwoods once did sometimes provide a voice for the dead and that's why Syrio can gasp out a bit of advice from beyond death, as can Ned. Bran is a bit different as he is now physically connected to the trees. It's interesting that both Arya and Theon are thinking about swords. Theon doesn't get one but Arys does in a sense. She decides she has a wolf's teeth and is done with wooden swords. & Subsquently slits a guards throat, shocking Hot Pie and Gendry, to escape from Harrenhal.

If I had to choose I think turned to Stark means turning to Eddard for help. Eddard has been further involved with Ashara in the events after the tourney and after the TOJ. He went to house Dayne supposedly to tell them of Arthur's death and return his sword. Then there is talk of the wetnurse being shared with Jon and the continued rumours that Jon was Ashara's. This seems to create a possibility that some of this travelling about had to do with helping Ashara. Its clear there's more to reveal about the whole business - 'she jumped into the sea' seems a convenient way for a family to explain someone's absence. I suppose I don't think there is any reason to make a list of all Starks and then try to narrow down what was meant by 'turned to Stark'. There is really no hint about Ashara asking Lyanna for help and as I said I don't think Barristan would think of Lyanna as 'Stark'. She'd be 'the Stark girl' or 'Lyanna Stark' or "Stark's sister"