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Gordias

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Everything posted by Gordias

  1. Nah, I agree with you here. It's orthodox on this forum to assume that in Dany's "three treasons you will know..." is from the perspective of Dany (i.e. she is being betrayed), but after having read a few convincing posters on here I'm of the opinion it refers to betrayals she'll do. The others are for another thread, but I very much like the idea of Dany betraying her responsibilities to the realm after securing the Iron Throne, and much like her predecessor Egg choosing to marry or elope for love. Which will be her downfall (GRRM did say a bittersweet ending).
  2. The fun thing is, we may also find out that the Others aren't the principal worry of the realm. Martin's opposition black & white goes well beyond just the tinges of his universe and seeps right into the very fabric of what makes fantasy, fantasy (i.e. there's a Dark Lord that needs extinguishing so everyone can live happily ever after). Dany's path will be illuminating because she embodies the Fire in A Song of Ice and Fire, but will she and her dragons turn out protagonists? What will become of her? Who are the Others and the Red Lot? It's going to be hard waiting for GRRM to tidy those plot-lines up but it's sure to be a wonderful book, as we're going to start really getting into the meat of those questions.
  3. Eh? No. The first scene that GRRM wrote was the scene with Bran and the direwolves. Have a look at the Publishing History section here or here. You are right that "Blood of the Dragon" was the first story published, but the germ of George R.R. Martin's genius began with the direwolves being found in the snow. There's nothing to suggest (so far) that Dany is or isn't the protagonist, but her story is thickening and I am doubtful that George's done with her yet. Still, I implore you not to get your hopes up. Remember Ned and Robb. No one is invulnerable in the books of GRRM. I think it's quite possible, probable even that Dany becomes mhysa for much of Essos. Remember Tyrion/Jorah's meeting with the Widow at the Waterfront, and the great emphasis placed on the ridiculous contrast of slaves/non-slaves in the city. Also we have Talissa from the HBO show coming from Volantis- it'd be unusual for them to include lore in that kind of medium lest it have some purpose down the road (they need to trim the fat). I think however, it's foolish to dismiss the point of the poster in here doubting whether Dany is a protagonist. If anything can be gleaned from GRRM, is that he doesn't deal in black and white (unless it's Faceless Men ;) ), he deals in interesting. Dany as a Joan-of-Arc, dragon-riding slave-liberator is damned interesting, but too puffy and pure for this kind of story. We've seen how wild and dangerous dragons are, how one has murdered and eaten a child and doesn't discriminate at all in diet (man or animal it's all meat). They are terrifying creatures of fire made flesh (Others are described as "ice made flesh, hmm") and we know one of the main tropes GRRM's set to combat is the black/white, good/evil worlds that have dogged the genre since Tolkien. From that meta-perspective, all you can really take away is that things are going to get interesting, as Dany's status as a morally outstanding badass abolitionist or a tragically fatal war-bringer and "bride of death" is.. well, very much up in the air right now. Tyrion's chapters give pivotal insight into this. I've brought it up in another thread, and won't rehash it here, but Martin's treatment of slavery is well-done I think, for the most part. It is morally abhorrent, but striking the chains off of slaves and saying "well, now you're free; enjoy your live" isn't that simple. Tyrion's chapters in DwD give us some fantastic insight on just what it means to be a slave. He compares slaves to servants and notices little differ from them- indeed, in his experience he ate better, dressed better and was treated better than most in castles. The point isn't to say slavery is preferable, or slavery is needed or that Dany's doing wrong by opposing the system. What it brings is deeper insight; that you can have literal or social chains, but they bind all the same.. and tighter in some places than other. Then we have the case of Xaro's merchant friend, who begs to be enslaved by him now that his business is ruined. Many freedmen are poor and unable to provide for themselves. Whores may be free but what other trade do they know? Some people are better off, some ruined. The power structures shift but the whole remains rotten and repressive. I would of course prefer to be a freeman over a slave, if only for the ideal, but we can see in the narrative that what Dany is doing is not universally good and is going to bring a lot of suffering to people. There is no better example than Astapor... Dany liberated that city, gave it freedom and a wise council to rule in her stead. Before she came the city was decaying admittedly, stained with the blood of slaves and the Unsullied especially. It was a miserable place, but it existed and there was prosperity and happiness to be found (Dany admits this when she remembers the lovers kissing on the way to claim her Unsullied)- and not all slaves were mistreated (though many were clearly). She left it a smoking ruin, full of horrors like King Cleon and Queen Whore, the Pale Mare and the "new" Unsullied made from noble's children. Most are dead now, or dying outside her walls spreading more plague. It's like Vaes Tolorro now, only we know how it fell and what became of its people. Don't take that as apology for slavery though, like I said the institution is morally abhorrent. However, it is not so simple as removing the chains and feeling good for yourself. All the structural inequalities that dog Westeros are rife in Essos, and Dany's uprising- however noble, has also brought people from all economic and social backgrounds immense (and in many cases horrific) suffering. Unless Dany plans to bring upheaval to the feudal system as well, little is going to change structurally for many of the people in Westeros/Essos- you may be free, but still a slave to social structure and nobility and all this. It's a testament to the complexity of the story; it's not easy, it's not simple and it's not black and white.
  4. Heh, my guess is poor old Barristan gets skewered by the Ironborn but we'll have to wait and see.
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