teej6

The lighting again is off. Everything is so dark.

Yes can’t wait to see Beesbury’s defiance and speech. He should call them all treasonous traitors. I suspect the old man is going to have a huge fan following after the next episode.

I just rewatched the episode and to me the scene where Daemon helps Viserys up the steps (he say’s “Come On”) and then places the crown back on Viserys head is so moving. There was love between these brothers but the lost years spent on anger and mistrust was such a shame. That scene just showed what this relationship could have been. Matt Smith perfectly captures the pain Daemon feels in seeing his brother so sick.

Ser Harrold Westerling appears to be still alive and Lord Commander on the show [or is this something they are going to gloss over and hope the audience forget about him]. Are they going to show he goes to Dragonstone with Darklyn or is Cole going to kill him in Ep 9?

Lol. He does look like Crispin Glover

Yes, the whole thing did not play out well. Seems like an attempt to trick the viewer. So what are they trying to imply? Alicent (the one who tells her son his life is forfeit if his sister becomes queen) would have accepted a Queen Rhaenyra if not for Viserys deathbed rambling?

Okay, from this episode it seems like Rhaenyra believes Laenor was murdered. So she was not in on the fake death plan? This is odd.

The show need not spell out everything but there needs to be an organic progression of things, which in this case there isn’t. The last we see of Otto is Viserys viewing him as someone who is undermining his daughter and heir and possibly even him. I get it, years have passed and Viserys is not the same but he has even more reason to be suspicious of Otto’s motives now, knowing that his daughter and wife don’t get along. And to me, despite the time jumps in the show, there is no sense/ feeling that several years have passed.

Ah! I missed that. Still, strange not to have mentioned his existence as yet.

But isn’t it too late in the game to introduce Daeron? Even if he’s squiring in Oldtown, seems to me it’s a bit of a stretch not to have mentioned him as yet. Can they really introduce another prince in Season 2 with no mention of his existence. Don’t know how that would play out.

Okay did I miss something? When does Sauron appear in TROP?

You didn’t miss much just them showing Daemon killing the guard. I guess everyone (including myself) is inferring from that scene that Daemon was in on the fake death plot. But you could be right and the showrunners probably didn’t intend it that way.

Was the phrase ever used in AGOT? So in the show universe, it may not necessarily mean torture. And as a previous poster stated, judging by everyone else’s reaction to Rhaenyra’s statement, it didn’t come across as her asking for the kid to be tortured. I would think there would be gasps in the room and a look of horror on Viserys’ face if that is what it meant.

I have no idea what you are rambling about as usual. My liking a comment has what to do with what?? As I posted after Ep 2, I didn’t like the fact that they made Alicent much younger and Rhaenyra’s confidant and best friend as then they would have had to show a pretty convincing falling out between the two, which they didn’t. And Alicent’s shift to conniving, ambitious operator on the show was poorly executed. Weren’t you the one after episode 4 that stated “Rhaenyra fans are crumbling”. From you past posts, it seems like you are having a hissy fit that your head canon is not coming to pass.

Then say the show is inconsistent with their characterizations, not Rhaenyra is “whitewashed”. The Rhaenyra we are getting now in the show is more or less the book version so you can’t say she’s being whitewashed. The term implies the character in the show is changed to be better than her book version, which is not the case here.

Yeah that made no sense. I stopped looking for consistency in the show. It did however seem to me that they were implying that Daemon was in on the “fake your murder and run away” plot

The focus on Rhaenyra’s blood and Aegon’s dagger (if that was Aegon’s dagger) could imply that Rhaenyra’s blood will rule and eventually fulfill “the prince that was promised” prophecy.

This debate about hair color and genetics in Martin’s world is pointless. As several posts have stated before, Rhaenyra’s kids paternity should not matter because her husband, her father, her in laws… people it directly affects or are of significance will stand by her and her kids. As long as they do not question or dispute the kids legitimacy, the point is moot. The point people should be taking umbrage with is why Martin (or rather the show) allows Alicent to make such accusations with no consequence or repercussions. Viserys is weak but Lyonel or others can advice the King that his queen is bordering on treason by spreading such rumors about his daughter and heir, and it endangers the safety of the realm. In Ned’s case, he is not acting out of self-interest (Alicent is a hypocrite and is doing all this not out of some higher purpose but to place her son on the throne). Even so, we don’t know how Robert would have reacted if he was given this information. For all we know, he would have shrugged it off and Ned would have had to drop the accusation. It’s Ned’s assumption that Robert would have hurt Cersei and kids. Stannis, otoh, is afraid to bring this to Robert on his own. I see the two situations as very different. One where we have a king who loves his daughter and will not entertain the rumors about her and her kids; whereas another case where we have a king who dislikes his wife and may be entertaining thoughts of getting rid of her. Moreover in the first instance, the husband of the princess does not dispute his paternity. So Alicent’s accusations as I said before borders on treason. I do hope Viserys in the next episode loudly threatens anyone with their tongues being removed if they question the kids paternity/ legitimacy. The issue I have is why was Harwin dismissed. He and his father could have told the king that he attacked Cole because the douchebag made derogatory comments questioning the princess virtue. And Lyonel has the king’s trust and ear.

I am well aware the book is based on unreliable sources. I’m not saying or expecting her to be a scheming seductress but making her best friends with Rhaenyra and and a confidant and sympathetic to Rhaenyra is over kill. They can make the character nuanced without any of these additions.

My favorite so far is Rhaenyra. I do dislike how they are whitewashing Alicent and why in the hell does Viserys not tell Rhaenyra that he has decided on Alicent when he’a having the “need to marry again” conversation with her. Rhaenyra seems to understand and sympathize with his predicament. That was badly done.

Did anyone see the similarity in Viserys “Promise me Rhaenyra, promise me” and Lyanna’s “Promise me Ned, promise me”? Was it just a coincidence or intentional?

It may not make sense to you but that is what is stated in the books. There’s no ambiguity there. The books also state that the IB will have its dues. If a ruler defaults on his/her debts, the IB is known to support a competing claimant expecting the competing claimant to honor the crown’s debt. This is exactly what they are doing with Stannis. If Stannis does not agree to their terms, he does not get the loan from the IB, it’s as simple as that. No loan, no money to hire sellswords, or pay and feed his men. Stannis needs the money the IB has to offer to stand any chance of winning the IT, and in order to do that, he has no choice but to accept their terms. If Bran or whoever wants to rebuild the seven Kingdoms and needs to borrow from the IB to do so, the IB will exact the same price based on how we know the IB operates in the books. If another King claims the throne and does not require any loan from the IB, and refuses to pay the crown’s debts incurred under the previous regime, the text is very clear that the IB will fund and support a competing claimant, thereby jeopardizing the new King’s position. That’s exactly what they are doing with Cersei/Tommen.

Not according to the books.

I’m so tired of people reducing the book’s sole purpose to subverting/destroying tropes. If that’s all that mattered to Martin, his story would be terrible and would eventually become predictable and meaningless. What he does, and does well, is introduce elements of reality to character tropes. So whether it be the protagonist or the antagonist, we as readers get to hear their thoughts, understand their motivations, fears, and justifications. This makes these characters more real and we can empathize with them more than the standard fantasy hero/villain. As to Ned dying in the first book, this was perhaps a shock to a lot of readers, but if you take the series as a whole, he was never the protagonist. He was the father figure in fantasy/ mythology whose death/ failure is the impetus needed to develop the characters of his kids/ prodigies. His death is required to set the story in motion and to set up the growth in the character arcs of the actual protagonists. And that’s exactly what Martin gave us. Martin has said on several occasions that he loses interest in a story if he knows the ending and he likes to surprise the reader, but he’s also said his story should flow organically. If all he cared about was subverting tropes and readers expectations, his story wouldn’t be very good and would be rather meaningless. Martin is smart enough to know that hope is a central theme in fantasy/mythical storytelling and he is writing fantasy after all, despite how much people would like to argue otherwise.

I think the above X+L=J is what @Lord Aegon The Compromiser is arguing. He/she is arguing that GRRM’s question to D&D was not who Jon’s parents were but who Jon’s mum was? So, by stating that D&D’s answer of Lyanna was right, GRRM is only confirming the identity of Jon’s mum and not his dad.