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Suzanna Stormborn

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Posts posted by Suzanna Stormborn

  1. Tywin and Joanna Lannister were first cousins and allowed to marry. And yes, in real life, cousin marriage was very common among European royalty, to form alliances and because there was a limited pool of marriage candidates. Anything closer than first cousins seems to have been a big no-no unless one was a Targaryen, and even then, not all Targs married their siblings.

    So Arianne could marry Elia's son and that would be fine according to Westerosi tradition, and Doran would probably want that marriage for Arianne - assuming Aegon is real, that is. If Arianne were to marry a fake Aegon, at the least, the Martells have egg (har!) on their faces, at the most, they are in danger because they are associated with a pretender.

    I wonder if Arianne, or anyone else, is going to find out that JonCon has the greyscale, and what will happen then.

    very good point. Someone will have to find out eventually that he has the Greyscale. i'm wondering if Aegon is fake does he know it? If he is fake then Jon Con and the Septa/ashara dayne knows it too cuz she is his mother probably.

    I am really wondering if the Dornish will be fooled by the fake Aegon, or if they will hold out for Dany?

    Also the guys that came to Mereen with Quentyn are already headed back to westeros right? so Doran martell will have to find out sooner rather than later what happened to his oldest son. And if the guys tell him the exact story as it happened in the dragon cave then maybe he won't blame Dany. i mean it's not her fault he died. and it's not her fault he got there too late to marry her.

  2. We have no idea what blowing the dragonbinder horn will do. I suspect it won't be as straightforward as someone blows it and the dragons come up to you - ie, it's not a dragon version of a dog whistle. I suspect the horn needs to be used along with either some other magic to fully control the dragons, and/or the dragons need to be more fully trained than Dany's are to respond as desired.

    I sort of think it will be like a dog whistle, only in the sense that the dragon will come right to it. but no way will the dragon just show submission immediately, I mean they're dragons.

    But I do think there is something to the Euron/Vic arrangement. Either Euron thinks the Dragon will just kill Vic, but that is a big waste, or he thinks that Vic will get control of a dragon and what just fly back to the iron islands and just hand it over to Euron. That doesn't make sense either, I know they are brothers and Euron thinks Vic is weak, but how weak will Vic be when he flies up on a dragon with all the hatred he has for Euron built up from their whole lives??

    It just doesn't make much sense. i can't remember off hand, where did Vic pick up Morroquo? is he Euron's man.....no that doesn't seem right, ugh i have to read the books 3-5 for a 4th time so I can remember everything!

  3. I think there is a possibility that at a certain moment Brown Ben might become a temporary rider for one of the dragons, thus splitting 3 dragons between 3 different partys - one with danny, one with ironborn and one with BBP /Tyrion.

    I also think that exept for Danny/Drogon duo, the other 2 dragons might change riders over the next 2 books (the new riders of course will take over after the deaths of the previous ones)

    For example, this might mean

    Victarion temporarily controls 1 dragon, and then it is taken over by Euron

    Brown Ben controls another one, but then, after BBP dies his dragon goes to someone else (Tyrion, Aegon, Jon, Darkstar, Samwell:) ???? I don't know)

    I am tending to agree with this, i think Rhaegal and viserion will have a few riders each. And I think Victarion will blow the horn and get Rhaegal and BBP will ride viserion, but I think he will have Dany's back, I don't think they will go rogue or anything.

    I am still very curious as to what affect blowing the horn will have on the dragons demeanor. Will it just tame him immediately into calm submission? that doesn't seen likely right?

  4. I think Tyrion is unhappy becasue he got stuck in hte middle of a fight.

    It could be that BR is warging Viserion. There was a tze post on it, I can try to dig it up. It went into BR and BBP, ect.

    oh so you think Viserion is already being warged by BR? and that is why he will be controllable for someone like BBP to ride him?

  5. I agree about the discrepancy regarding the missing 3k pointy hats possibly (hopefully) means they are being kept inside (but hidden) to whup some Harpy ass when they "try" to take advantage of the seemingly vulnerable situation ...hopefully that is part of the plan and both threats inside and out can be dealt with.

    But unless I am missing something, Dany still appears to not be around so this is all being done without her, right?

    I'm done trying to defend Victarion in this thread, but I do like the comments Tam Tam made at the top of page 16 (nicely put Ser..I would have liked to have "liked" it but it seems that option sadly is now missing. (can we ever bring this back?)

    There are very interesting issues brought up that I cam dying to be able to get my grubby little hands on tWOW in its entirety that have my brain spinning:

    1) Will Selmy survive this battle? It would be very satisfying and a nice eff you to Cersei and the Lannisters to see Selmy as the Commander of the Queensguard marching into Kingslanding

    2) Is smashing both the enemies inside (the Harpy's sons) AND at the gate both being handled and accounted for? (I really, really, really hope so)

    3) The whole Pale Mare issue with the sickness and the flying corpses reaching everywhere but the North part of Mereen and the fact that he is riding his Khalessi's horse into battle (a no-no BTW, right?)

    a) is this considered a betrayal?

    4) Will Dany arrive during or after this battle? ....and with a huge freaking hoard of new Dothraki screamers at her back? We have to assume she still hasn't arrived yet, right?

    5) I can't wait to see what role the two dragons will play, if any? Anyone think they enter into Selmy's plan?

    6) From the comment is shows Tyrion is unhappy, (I am assuming because he has probably laid a plan that will be successful but will not get the credit (again)

    7) Can't wait to see what Victarion will end up actually doing at the end of the day. (as I have said, I think he is smarter than many give him credit for)

    ---please Mr. George, please write like the wind Ser, write like the wind!.

    After reading some of ASOS when Brown Ben Plumm is first helping Dany break into Mereen and Viserion jumps on him and likes him in her Pavilion, then how in DwD BBP is with Tyrion and trying to decide how to defect back to Dany's team, and in the new sample Tyrion Chapter, BBP is still wanting to go back to Dany.

    BBP tells Dany in ASOS that he has some targaryen blood in his family from way back. I sort of feel like the way he will get back in her good graces will be to somehow find Viserion and mount him and fly him into this battle supporting Dany. It not like the Dragons are the things in Avatar where they can 'only have 1 rider in the whole life'. So who is to say only 1 person will ride each dragon? And a little bit of targaryen blood is all someone needs to ride a dragon right? I just fee like why would GRRM have put all that stuff in about BBP bonding with Viserion if nothing was going to come of it??

    I feel like I am right about this. When i first thought of it, I couldn't wait to get on and see what everyone else thinks??? :dunno:

  6. again, more krakens !!

    Thanks for sharing :laugh:

    snapback.pngtze, on 17 February 2013 - 02:30 PM, said:

    Oooh, shiny.

    Who wants to bet that Victarion ends up blowing the dragon horn (or having it blown) during the battle, Barristan's forces hear it and assume it's the Red Lamb's call to retreat/advance, and Victarion accidentally ends up screwing up Barristan's battle plans?

    Oh.My.God :bowdown:

    I was thinking the same thing when i was reading. that would be crazy. but i sort of feel like he will blow the dragon horn after the battle, when dany refuses to go with him.

  7. In Victarions POV we were left outside the cabin and heard Victarion scream when Moqorro "fixed" his arm. When Jorah took Dany inside the tent in AGoT, it said he took her in the tent, but the POV didn't go inside. I think tis is just GRRM letting the magic remain more mysterious because it happens "off-camera."

    OHHHH ok. yeah that's really interesting. It's like there are some rituals/spells that no one can see if they weren't directly involved. COOL!

  8. I don't believe it has been mentioned in prophesy, however many people do believe it is significant. Some believe that Moqorro killed Victarion in his chamber when he put the arm on him. This is evidenced by the fact that the POV left Victarion, the only other time this has happened was when Dany was in the tent with MDM when her son died. Others suggest that it will allow Moqorro to control the dragons in someway, since Victarion will be rubbing his blood on the horn.

    What do you mean the POV left Victarion and Dany in the tent with MMD?

  9. Winteriscome, thank you so much for sharing this, it's the most detail I've seen from the second barristan chapter!!!! awesome! :bowdown:

    Tumco draws Barristan’s attention to the bay, asking “Why are there so many ships?” Barristan remembers that yesterday there were twenty, but now there are thrice that many. His heart sinks when he reasons that the ships from Volantis must have arrived, but then sees that some of the ships are crashing together.

    What is this quote about? why would the ironnborn ships be crashing together? have they lost control?

  10. That was my original point...his perception of being "dumb" is rooted in his being loyal and dutiful to his brother and following the "old way" which is his religion. I'm just saying that people see him as being dumb because he is a dutiful younger brother and follows the way of his religion.

    By that rational, (which I was actually trying to avoid) is everyone that follows what they believe their religion or family tells them to do, dumb? Its a difficult argument to make.....I might think that people in a certain religion are "dumb" for doing certain things, but they do it because of what they believe in that religion.

    Its not for me IMO to comment about a person's religion. There are many things that I do not agree with or understand with regards to what certain religious people do...but if looking at it from the outside I might (without understanding the religion) think people of whatever religion as being "dumb".

    The same goes for being a dutiful younger brother and doing that your older brother or family tells you to do.

    It just seems that Victarion being dumb in people's eyes is due to him following his religion and doing what his brother told him to do....you can't equate duty with being dumb. I think if he was his own man and free from following the "old ways" of his religion and free from the yoke of his brother and able to act 100% on his own...

    Like I said, this is not the place for a debate on the merits of religion (any religion), but needless to say, there are things I do not agree with that people I know do believe because of their religion. From my perspective these things are just ludicrous....and make zero sense to me and when ignoring the fact that these people believe this stuff because of their religion, I could definitely understand wanting to think these people are just "dumb" because they believe this stuff.

    Maybe I am not doing a very good job of explaining what I am trying to say...but I do not think its fair to judge Victarion as being dumb because he follows his religion (the only religion he knows) unless you are willing to say ALL religious people are dumb. (which is not something I can say personally)

    ...and yes, he was most likely given the job of admiral because he was a Greyjoy, but he has been able to keep it after all these years, so he must be doing something right. The Iron Born took on the entirety of Westeros...as it was stated by someone they did decent for being out numbered..They were all defeated. I don't think mentioning Stannis defeated Vic means anything when talking about Vic being dumb or not....he was told to go to war so being a dutiful younger brother, he did, regardless of the fact that he was outnumbered.

    the only thing he does that I think is dumb, is how he thinks of Euron. In my mind he should either follow Euron's orders even though that has not gotten him anything good in the past, or he should revolt against Euron. But instead he does a little of both, much like Freddo Corleone who stays with Michael and his family but still does wrong by them and almost gets Michael and His wife shot to pieces in their lovely home in the Sierra nevada mountains. Victarion is sent to bring back a dragon queen for Euron, but instead he decides half way there to take the bride for himself because of the past between him, his dead wife and Euron..

    TO me that shows that he is Lost and doesn't really know what his purpose is in slaver's bay. And if he is trying to win Dany over to his side, does he think she will come willingly after he blows his horn? maybe he thinks it will tame the dragons and she will go wherever her Dragons go. No matter what reason he thinks he is there for, he is stupid, because Dany is not the kind of woman some pirate just takes with him. She is not going to go willingly and she is definitely not going to take kindly to someone trying to steal her dragons.

    Best case scenario he is able to sneak in and steal Dany somehow and blows the horn and is able to control the dragons......then what?? Does he plan to just take them back and hand them to Euron? Since he has done everything else Euron has requested why wouldnt he carry out the whole plan and take her and the dragons back to Euron?

    But from his POV we learn that he wants it all for himself and that is what is dumb! He is becoming greedy and feeling like he has not been given his due, (another Parallel to Freddo) but history shows that it does not end well for a greedy little brother who is not only going against his family and his brother who is now the King of the Iron islands, but he is going against what he knows is right.

    All in all his trip to capture dany is going to serve nothing except to make her even more wary of westeros and the ppl who live there and possibly to give someone in Slaver's Bay a lot of ships.

  11. Oh for the love of god, please no more un-characters!

    I don't thin kthere will be anymore Un-characters, beric and Cat are going to diminish soon anyway, the uncharacters seem to be rather weak in their hearts and will turn into terrible zombie's soon, Beric says he never eats and can't remember anything anymore. it's not a very good option no matter how you look at it. I think Uncat is the alst one, Jon snow is NOT going to be an UN character I know it I know it!!!

  12. Why? Doran would just name that false and fight on to make his daughter a queen. Stannis wrote every lord in westeros, but still, most people believe Tommen to be the real deal or they just don't care.

    Doran has no other options than Aegon, he hates the lannisters, Stannis is far away and once he hears how Dany welcomed his son and how Quentin burned alive because Dany favored a local nobleman above a prince of Dorne, well how do you think he'll react: he was plotting for years to avenge his siter, he will rage for his son.

    OMG you are so right! He is gonna have a shit-fit when he finds out how Quentyn died. But in the end what will getting extremely upset do? I mean the Elia/Rhaegar relationship is all that Dorne has to hold on to. and now that I think about it. Aegon can't be marrying Arianne, they are too closely related right. Elia is Ariannes aunt, so Aegon is her first cousin. That's too close, right, don't the Lords frown upon marrying cousins? Ugh someone make this book come out now! I can't wait 4 more years!

  13. Now that I think about out....Tyrells and Dornish make a terrible mix.....Margery and Aegon is not a possiblility ...especially if the Dornish back Aegon....they would probably want a marriage with Arrianne. And yes the sandsnakes are all abour treachery ....as they are hungry for revenge for their father and the destruction of the Lannisters.....again....the faith is a huge wild card....and can be very instrumental in bringing about tommens end....perhaps a little bird will whisper in their ear about tommens ilegitemate claim to the throne....The Tyrells were Targarean men...and perhaps will turn on the Lannisters once they see how bad it goes for them and see them losing power....especially with Kevan dead. the Tyrells have been known to switch sides.....just look how they did Stannis wrong when Renly was killed....

    Yes Doran Martell is absolutely trying to set up his daughter Arianne with aegon, if he proves to be real. OMG won't Dorne look so stupid if the betroth Arianne and Aegon then he turns out to be fake!

  14. Victarion was Lord Balon's brother. It's not like he became admiral independently of his lineage, and it's not like anyone who thought he was a superior leader could challenge his authority. That we know of, he has only fought two battles. Against Stannis he was completely smashed. And his two victories are sneak attacks against unprepared fleets in peace time. I still have to see any prove that he is anything more than a passable strategist.

    But regardless of his military merits, he is dumb because he sticks to the Old Way, that is dead and will not rise again. Convicing a bunch of pirates to raid, steal and rape may be leadership, but it's dumb leadership. What Asha proposed in the Kingsmoot, that's what true leadership is.

    Yes Victarion is an evil bad ass, he got across the storm littered sea with most of his ships and the horn and he is coming in hard to the battle of Slaver's Bay, which he will most likely not survive due to all the 'death' foreshadowing from Dany. if I had to guess, he is going to get the 'grey death' and turn to stone eventually, because of the 'grey lips smiling' comment.

    If he is 'dumb' about anything it is how he lets Euron play him like a fiddle.

  15. Does no one else think that a real Kraken may come into play at some point? like one as big as the one in Pirates 2.

    There have been mentions of them a few times, even in the new Arianne Chapter. i feel like a real Kraken is going to take down some or one of the iron born ships, maybe the horn will attract it as well as whatever it will do to the dragons. i mean the starks have their wolves, the targaryens have their dragons, why shouldnt the ironborn be set upon by a giant f%$king Squid?!

  16. Well the point of being a wild card is that you can't really predict what they'll do.

    As to Cersei. Cersei herself shouldn't have that much to worry about since as Varys wants to keep her in power so she can mess things up some more and will thus work his magic to ensure her relative safety from the Faith Militant. She may be in dire straits but if Varys really wants her around to do more damage then I'm sure he'll do his best.

    Aegon doesn't have much chance of getting their help IMO, being that 1. He hasn't been seen as legitimate yet and 2. even if he was we don't know what the faith militant thinks of Targs.

    I think the Faith Militant are going to focus on "cleaning" up the capital and as such going head to head with the council.

    Yes I think the faith Militant are going to do a Spanish Inquisition style clean out of KL. It is going to be crazy, they already have their little army of the faith including Lancel Lannister. History shows again and again that people on a religious rampage are extremely serious and not forgiving at all. They kill and kill without question, look at the Salem Witch Trials. KL is going to have a theological war inside the walls. i suppose Varys will be trying to supplant Aegon in the lannister seats of power, which he has basically done already, I mean there is no one left, only tommen and cersei, and what power do they have anymore? cersei only has Qyburn and UnGregor. They are going to have to flee for their lives. that is her only choice to save her sons life. She is going to flee northwest to casterly Rock or possibly she will try to find Jaime thinking he still loves her. when she does find him he is going to kill her, he might even kill tommen too.

  17. After reading through this entire forum, it seems like most people are giving Pod a lot more credit than I ever did while reading the books. But after digesting it all I sort of think that Pod could actually be the real Aegon. Only if Aegon is actually a fake, which I am still not convinced of.

    There is no way Jaime or Brienne is going to die in WOW, maybe they will both die in ADOS but there has been soooo much build up for them it just seems unlikely, plus Martin hasn't killed off anyone who holds the POV except Ned Stark in Book 1, and Cat, but she is still around, so that doesn't really count. why would he start with Brienne and Jaime?

    Jaime has totally come around from the most hated character to someone we actually root for, and now he is clearly in love with this ugly monster of a woman which makes him even more enduring. And jaime is absolutely the person who is going to kill Cersei. They have to die on the same day as they were born on the same day. If I had to pick who would die in the intertwined group of ppl it is Sansa and Littefinger. i think brienne somehow got the info the Sansa is in the Vale and her and Jaime are headed there now, maybe the BWB is going to be headed there as well and there will be a showdown of some sort. What I really want to know is what are UnCat's motives at this point? Is she still intent on seeking her children or has she adopted the BWB intentions to bring justice to all wrong doers?

    trial by combat is definitely still an option that UnCat has to respect and let happen if it is wanted. what else would all Jaime's training with Ilyn be for? He is going to demand trail by combat and they will let him because he seems weak with one hand, and he will beat whoever it is.

  18. I always thought the black tentacles were a reference to Crow's Eye and that Euron was controlling Vic like a marionette.

    The smiling sadly part from the HoD prophecy doesn't really seem to fit Vic. He's not much for sad smiles, I think. He's more a man of action.

    You certainly could be right considering the points you bring up about the Vic's POV leaving him. I'm just sharing what I thought when I read the books. Next time I read I will challenge my assumptions a little bit to see if the dead man on the prow of the ship fits better with Vic.

    I think this may be a literal reference, supposedly there are actual krakens pulling ships under. maybe one is going to break Vic's ship and drown him. in the new Arianne chapter there is a mention of kraken's pulling ships under. it would be poetic justice if the ironborn were set upon by some sea monsters.

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