six

What was the point of getting Locke to the Wall, only to kill him off a minute after?

Nope. It was debated last week. Kit said in some interview that he knows Bran is alive and he found out off camera. Hah.

Did he? Why do they do this. Some of the choices they make are really stupid.

It's an 8 from me. The episode was excellent, the build up was great, but Joff actual death... Maybe I need to watch it again.

hmmm, I thought it was a bit underwhelming compared to the books. The build up was good, but the actual moment... Cersei's reaction was a bit off, too. She was fine at the end, but she was just staring at Joff when he was dying, in the books she's in panic, screaming.

It was good overall, not amazing. I think they did better with the RW, despite the fact it was very different from the books.

Also, the actress who plays Shae is the most unconvincing at crying.

7/10. Decent opener.

Tywin's "disowning" of Jaime counts for a point lost though. It felt rushed and without any urgency on either of their parts. When Jaime mentioned being disowned, I was baffled; his entire conversation with Tywin felt watered down from the book equivalent and amounted to a relatively minor spat, without a whole lot said.

The really passive way they seeded Sansa's necklace irked me too. There should've been more emphasis put on the importance of her specifically wearing it at the wedding.

Maybe that's just me, but I'm assuming this won't be the Jaime/Tywin final confrontation. They were never going to settle it now, it's just episode 1.

Of course I didn't think you really thought she had a car. Your post implied that Ygritte unrealistically caught up to Jon, but she had access to a horse, so it is a silly complaint.

It wasn't a complaint. I was laughing about the fact it looked silly. I didn't give a sh-t, tbqh.

As the previous poster mentioned, she probably took a horse from the old guy. And if she is sneaking up on Jon, she would have parked her horse out of the way and proceeded on foot. This is a silly complaint.

You can't read sarcasm apparently though. My post mentioned that Melisandre had a car... You don't actually think I believe that, do you?

Don't see why anyone is making definitive judgements on Jamie/Cersei. It was purposely ambiguous. There was love there, Cersei looked at his hand, seemed concerned but weirded out, Jamie looked embarrassed. It will play out the same way as the books with them distancing from each other for a variety of reasons. Non-readers LOVED the scene. They wanted more.

in general non-readers' favorite part of the show seems to be Lannisters and King's Landing. It's the simplest to understand.

I agree that it was purposely ambiguous, but it's not like in the books in the slightest. In the books Cersei is not a snarky woobie who stares at sea shells thinking on the good times. Show!Cersei is a soap opera-like character. A dramatic heroine. Which is completely laughable and unfair to the books. She also doesn't love Jaime all that much, so that look of love is quite a change.

It's not 'how did he survive that', it's 'couldn't they have spread it out better rather than doing that in 2 consecutive episodes' or, 'skip the arrow(s) as he had his bye with Ygritte in the episode before'.

Now they had her teleport over just so she could shoot him. Ridiculous is ridiculous.

It's how did he survive 3 arrows as well to me. Once would have sufficed, I do think they took a it too far and it was a bit far fetched.. They obviously couldn't skip it because they needed a scene of Ygritte eventually turning on Jon, but it should have happened all during episode 9.

I don't know what to say about Jon getting his eyes almost clawed out one day, and the next he doesn't get 1 arrow, but 3 shot into his body (did one hit his leg?) If all 3 were in his back I suppose he's not going to limp around next season, but just moan a lot? :lol:

How did Jon survive all of this is a mystery, I'm beginning to believe he's the Kurgan reborn.

-Jamie + Cersey realising that they never really loved each other.Or to be more specific that she never loved him.

I don't understand where did some people see this. In an interview NCW said something along the lines of Cersei and Jaime both having missed each other and loving each, but things have changed for the while they were away. So the way the show is going to go on about it, is by having them loving each other like in a soap opera, and fall apart for other reasons. Not because Cersei is a manipulative liar and a cheat, like in the books. When she saw him she looked shocked and concerned to me, not like she didn't love him.

I'm not fine with this, honestly I'm not fine with all these departures in characterisation. They're quite annoying.

except, Ygritte doesn't have a horse. She just shows up. Teleport?

She runs as fast as a horse, apparently. Or maybe she has a car like Melisandre, who travels across Westeros much faster than other characters.

I gave it a 10, and this is the first 10. Best episode of the season by far.

I was intermittently in tears since Jon left Ygritte behind, and then Rickon/Bran, poor wee Arya and Catelyn... It was so good. The RW was different than in the books, it had a very different feel to it as it was awkward but somewhat joyful, whereas in the books there was a feel of impending doom, but I think it worked fantastically anyway. I'm also so happy that Jon's storyline is finally shaping up nicely, and I now recognise the Jon I love in the books. Please, keep going in this direction and don't muck Jon up again!

One thing I couldn't tell, did Blackfish die too?

I think she will make him Kingsguard of Tommen after the purple wedding, going against her father.

I think Loras will eventually willingly join the Kingsguard to get out of marrying her. He'll be the one rejecting her.

I am a fan of Lena Hedley as well but I maintain Charlize Theron would have been perfect. Not only is Cersei her doppelgänger, she basically played a version of Cersei in Snow White and the Huntsman.

This. I always think of either Charlize or Diane Kruger when reading Cersei. She never has Lena's face, and I do think she's a good actress, but she's not the Cersei I imagined and still imagine.

^^^

Fair enough. To each their own. I don't particularly care for Aiden Gillen all that much, but I certainly don't see the range from Gillen that I have seen from Lena. But I certainly would not call him atrocious either. That was my point.

There. So the other poster was perfectly entitled to say he does't like Headey's acting, since as you put it, to each their own. Geez.

As for Cersei's characterisation, and this is the writing, she has her moments. In the last episode she was great, during most of season 3 she's been a passive bore.

I gave it an 8, and I gave myself some time to stew over it and decide. Mostly because the good was very good, and the bad wasn't as bad as last week - except for Theon. The highlights were Arya, Jaime/Brienne, Dany and I suppose I liked Jon/Ygritte too (but let's move forward now, they made a point they love each other). I also liked Tyrion kind of implying that as much as he doesn't want to admit it, he would like to have Sansa which is faithful to the books.

Mel/Gendry and Talisa/Robb were fairly forgettable. The only thing I hate is the fact that Talisa is pregnant means she'll definitely stick around.

An episode without show!Littlefinger and show!Cersei is automatically a much better episode btw. Need more Stannis and Davos.

By the way, apparently Jaime will be getting to King's Landing before the Purple Wedding. I don't know if it's any importance...

How do you know? Has it been confirmed?

The main problem with the Bear scene is that it is told from Jaime's PoV. Regardless of how it was done in literature, it would be way more thrilling for the screen to show the whole thing from Brienne's point of view. She is being tortured, she's about to die, she is hopeless. And Jaime had to show up as a sudden turn of events.

Agreed. I liked the scene anyway, but cinematically speaking it would have worked much better from Brienne's POV. Then again they needed to show Jaime deciding to go back. I guess we could have had both if they cut some of Theon's redundant torture.

I gave it a 6 because too many things bothered me, but I'm just going to skip them altogether and mention the good ones:

- Jon Snow: I'm a massive Jon's fan who has been not very pleased with his depiction so far, but as cheesy as his interaction with Ygritte was, I think it worked and it finally did the character justice. We saw his respect for Tormund grow, and by making the love story more romantic-us-against-the-world they set up a more poignant situation when it all goes tits up. I still don't know how is it gonna work from a narrative standpoint, since they're like 4 wildlings doing the deed? :dunno:

- Bolton/Jaime/Brienne: the actor who plays Bolton is so good - subtly threatening, and while the scene should have been longer it was good nonetheless. I also loved Brienne/Jaime and their new "in tune" interaction; he struggles with his dinner/she offers a steady hand, she grabs a knife/he stops her and insists she's coming with him. And all of it it's done without them acknowledging it or even looking at each other.

- Tywin/Olenna was funny, and as unfair as it is so was the Continuous Unfortunate Adventures of Sansa Stark (I mean the date with Loras, not the last bit).

It was the worst episode so far though.

I can't be the only one annoyed at the whitewashing of Cersei. In season 1 it was a nice touch, by now it's becoming very irksome.

The episode was practically perfect, so many highlights e.g. Jaime/Brienne, Shireen/Stannis and Shireen/Davos (I love the little girl that plays her!), Robb/Karstark, Arya's heartbreak. At the moment I'd say it's the episode I've enjoyed the most.

I have to join the chorus of people who aren't pleased about Jon/Ygritte though. Tbh, I have problem with Jon's whole storyline, in the books he's one of my faves while in the show he's a bit of a letdown. Sex with Ygritte had zero build up and came out of nowhere, their whole relationship feels sudden. I just can't wait for Jon's time with the wildlings to end, for Stannis to get to the Wall, and for Jon to start interacting with Team Dragonstone (Melisandre!). I'm sure it will be way more interesting than what we get right now, as for some reasons it just did not translate properly on screen. Jon's story is my only gripe atm, I hope it picks up.

Re Brienne's body double: it's weird some would say that, as the actress who plays her has done tons of naked portraits so I doubt she'd have a problem with nudity. She looked very pretty during the whole scene and her body is gorgeous, however Brienne is not supposed to be attractive; why use a body double with such pretty derriere?

EDIT: spelling

Anyone else annoyed by the remoulding of Brienne into a badass bitch?

The latest addition to this is her telling Jaime he sounds 'like a bloody woman'. ASoS has her saying 'are you so craven?' which was the perfect way to bring him back to life. Show!Brienne called him a coward but it wasn't the same at all because she was just insulting him.

Giving myself props for this because I called it, based on Alyssa Rosenberg's review http://asoiaf.wester...80#entry4259414 and said it would be disappointing. It is very disappointing as Gwen Christie is great but they're really frontloading her character giving her no space for evolving like she did in the books, and have taken away Brienne's humanity which is what she brings out in Jaime.

I'm a bit disappointed as well, in the books it comes across differently. Show!Brienne is much more hardened by life already, and I don't necessarily have a problem with that, but some of the things she said like the "bloody woman" line, it's something book Brienne would have never said in a million years. I think they're bringing to the surface Brienne's conflict with who she is- a woman- and what she wants to be- a knight, and how the two things don't seem to be able to coexist. At least that's my take so far.

However, I still think they're showing Brienne's humanity. When Jaime is being beaten up, she tries to help but she's stopped and she's horrified and sad at what's happening to him. And as harsh as what she said to him was, it sounded like tough love. She's puzzled by his actions- lying to save her whenever he was threatening to kill her himself not so long ago, but she doesn't think highly of him and it shows, however she's humane enough to want to him to pull through. Also, practically speaking, she needs him to be alive otherwise her task is fruitless. I think show Brienne is naive in the way she sees the world and people as good or bad, but also quite pragmatic. She's more grown up.

• There has been no mention of Robb's plan to lure the Mountain West at all prior to this episode.
  
• Also Robb talking about "our country" in the West - what is he referring to?
  
• Robb's concern over losing men, but nobody mentions the 4000 soldiers he lost when he married Talisa.
  
• Jorah questioning Daenerys in front of Kraznys. Dany's arc last season (whilst badly written) at least led to Jorah realising that he can trust Daenerys because she knows what she's doing.
  
• Littlefinger thanking Tyrion for freeing Ros even though Tyrion was the reason Ros was arrested in the first place, and even though Tyrion was incapable of doing anything after the Battle of the Blackwater.
  
• Ramsay killing four of his own men.
  
• Mance sending a group of 20 to attack Castle Black.
  
• Two Lannister children being able to recognise Talisa as Robb's wife, despite no one in King's Landing even being aware of Robb's marriage yet. Or worse: if everyone in King's Landing is aware of Robb breaking his oath to the Freys, why is no one discussing it?
  
• Daenerys not freeing Missandei. It's inconsistent with her book characterisation and also the characterisation on the show (she freed her khalasar as soon as she could, and she's always had a strong anti-slavery stance).
  
• The lack of funds to pay for Unsullied. Dany could buy around 227 Unsullied if she sold the ship (that isn't hers to sell), her goods, and her Dothraki. So why did Jorah suggest buying Unsullied if Daenerys couldn't afford them?
  
• Melisandre getting on a boat and sailing away from Dragonstone without knowing where she has to go.
  
• The prostitutes not accepting Tyrion's money (the most likely solution is that Littlefinger arranged a free session to repay Tyrion... but again, this makes little sense; it's not in-line with the show's characterisation of Littlefinger, and it's not in-line with the show's characterisation of Tyrion, who doesn't have any interest in saving money).
  
• Brienne being able to fight off her (attempted) rapists for the amount of time it took for Jaime to explain her value to Locke, and her rapists handing her back without a problem.
  

I'm not sure I see the point of picking plot holes before the whole season has ended, as what it would appear as a plot hole might in fact make sense in context or be explained later on. Some of the things you mentioned could also be explained even now; for instance in the Brienne thing, Locke made a point of him "going first" and the other men would have her after him, so they weren't trying to rape her yet at that point, just beat her up. Or Ramsay killing his men, the guy is deranged, why is that surprising? Dany will probably free Missandei later on.

Just give it time, also because you said you gave it an 8, so it can't be that bad ;)

I gave it an 8, but it was nearly a 9. The problem I have with voting episodes as I watch them, is that I always change my mind after watching the whole series and compare each episode overall, so end up being much tighter in my initial voting. But anyway.

I thought it was great, pretty much all of it. The parts that stand out the most were Jaime/Brienne, which I'll get to later, Dany (I'm dying for her story in the next episode!), Theon, and the little snippet of Arya- who needs more screen time asap, it's not enough so far. The things I disliked was the Talisa scene, because as much as I try I just don't care and I find her screen time wasted time, and Jon's sloooow moving storyline. I'm unsure about Pod The Stud; while I understand they need to establish his attachment to Tyrion because at some point it will matter, it went on for too long. And I'm not squeamish about nudity, I just wish it didn't take that much time as it doesn't advance the plot.

I loved the ending. While reading SoS those Jaime's chapters were always filled with so much dread but were slightly surreal at the same time, and I felt the scenes on the show completely captured that feeling. One minute Jaime thinks he's manipulating everyone, the next he's handless. Forever. The song was very fitting, too. Like I said, it added to the chaotic/surreal/bleak feel to it. And Jaime/Brienne have by far one of the best dynamics of all.

ETA: I still don't understand the point of separating Jon and Ghost.

More importantly, why did a south Riverlands farmer attend a Frey wedding? Even more strange, why did Jaime take part in the wedding's tournament? It's not like the wedding would be such a big deal, requiring the presence of the Kingsguard.

Re the accent: I thought it was Cockney.

Regardless, I though it was ironic and quite funny that the bloke who ratted them out was the second person to remind him of that Frey wedding he attended but didn't quite remember.

What show were you watching? When Brienne gets mad at Jaime for insulting the late Renly and yanks his hair back to yell at him, she moves her mouth to within 1/4 inch of his lips... it doesn't get more tense than that.

Also, we have the bath scene coming up.

Lol, calm down :P

I was talking about the actual fight scene book vs show. The book version was quite sexually charged, whereas in the show it came across quite different. I love those two together in the books, the actors have great chemistry, and I agree the Renly scene was quite tense. However I'm not sold on the show's adaptation of the fight.

Jaime sure talks a lot. His punchlines are 50/50 hit & miss. I suppose he has to work double with Brienne in company. Something I missed from the fight scene (not that it took place in a stream) was sexual tension. The fight carries on for some time, past the point that Jaime has clearly embarrassed himself, but it's left unclear who's going to break the ice first, and that's when the Bloody Mummers arrive to break the tension. There may not have been enough time to give the scene its full due.

This. The show version is underwhelming and surprisingly void of sexual tension. I wonder if it's deliberate.