Hangover of the Morning

9 minutes ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

I really hope Jaime gets killed too, did anyone notice they said Edmure was back in a cell at the Twins?  What happened to that promise Jaime made him about living at Casterly Rock?

I think Jaime talked about Edmure's son growing up at Casterly Rock not Edmure though I could be wrong.

Why was the celebration at the Twins and not at Riverrun? I would think Walder would be itching to move to the Tully seat though he might be too old to travel. 

8 hours ago, Winter Blues said:

I have a sort of hollow feeling inside now. This season just ended way too upbeat for my liking. We know Jon is the kid of L+J, now, Dany is finally on her way, Arya's home and may meet Melisandre as Mel predicted in season three, Cersei has fulfilled her destiny and all it took was the death of all of her kids, Jaime finally sees his sister for what she is, Tyrion is actually right where he needs to be. 

Lyanna + Jon Arryn, Jaime Lannister, Jeor Mormont, Jorah Mormont ???

Jokes aside, I agree with your sentiment. It feels as if the "game of thrones" part of the story is largely over and large part of the final two series will be focused on the magical and fantastical aspect of the story. 

Most of the main characters feel like they have or almost have reached their destination (or we can guess what it will be) and that there are very few surprises left. 

9 hours ago, Bear Claw said:

I liked the episode, but I am not too excited for next season because it looks like Dany will cake walk through Westeros, marry Jon, and then they will fight the White Walkers. (Predictable)  I know there has to be some conflicts/suprises, but what will happen now? 

That bothers me too. The smallfolk loathe Cersei and will even more after she put an end to the peasant uprising, destroyed the sept and murdered the High Sparrow and the crowd's favourite Margaery and Tommen. Dany will once again be seen as the liberator and as a champion of the common people. Cersei has also no means to oppose her as she at best controls the Crownland's and the Westerland's, armies although even the latter one is debatable considering Jaime's reaction to Cersei's crowning. 

Dany's conquest will be seen as very righteous because she will be removing a corrupt oppressive regime and reinstating peace, which I believe is exactly the opposite of what will happen in the books. There Dany's likely to come after Aegon, at time of relative peace and at time when the Faith and the common folk will be united behind their king. Dany will seek to destroy all that with her army of savages and will finally get a reality check once she sees how unwelcome she is in her homeland. 

8: my second favourite episode this season with The Door taking the crown so far thanks to "hold the door" and lack of Dany's motivational speeches. 

Loved it. I was on the edge of the seat the whole time even though there was hardly any fighting. I needed a bit of a time to breathe and I'm glad that no one died this time. 

Loved Gilly and Sam the most, especially the stealing of Heartsbane. Randyl Tarly is more terrifying than all the White Walker's combined. Great acting on all parts.

Braavosi play was excellent as was the showdown in front of the Sept. The High Sparrow's a dick but has my respect for outplaying everyone. 

Walder Frey's back and in a good form, it seems. He's almost as good at scolding his disappointing progeny as is Randyl.

Dany was a bit meh and bit of a waste of time but it wasn't too terrible. Kinda wonder what the Dothraki that couldn't hear what she was saying were cheering to.

I think Cersei will burn down King's Landing once she looses Jaime and all her children. The flashbacks definitely foreshadowed it. 

I don't like that Jaime and Cersei are still together but their kiss was quite hot. 

Hyped for Blackfish and Jaime. 

R + L = J v 159 link directs to a wrong topic

R + L = J v 158 link directs to a wrong topic

Most of the links in the Compendium of theories don't work and give 404 error

I googled one of my old topics from Oct 2015 (Theoretical exercise: Can George still "back off" from R+L=J if he had a change of heart?) and the resulting link leads to: "Old Nan vs Maester Aemon"

There's likely many more links to old threads that don't work. 

I for once have to go against the flow. I gave it 4/10. Maybe I am being a bit harsh and will reconsider after re-watch but the whole episode was kinda dull despite it being action packed. The Hardhome scene, particularly the negotiations, felt like something I have seen over a dozen times in every movie that involves a siege or former enemies uniting under a bigger threat. All the dialogues and sequence of events was just way too predictable and felt like nothing new.

Sansa/Theon were great, Cersei/Qyburn and Arya were good but just felt like a setup and Tyrion/Danny was good but I think I expected more.

Overall, the episode just didn't suck me in as usual and none of the scenes (aside from perhaps Jon battling the WW) or dialogues were particularly memorable.

I tend to rate around 8-10 so this is an unusually low score for me.

I think the point is that we the viewers couldnt tell the difference because we aren't trained, but the faceless men have so perfected the art that THEY can tell the difference even if its too subtle for anyone else.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Battle scenes have been done in film for decades, so its kind of hard to coordinate a battle without doing something that has been done before. To me the execution and quality was great, top notch for any television show and that's what matters most. And it was great to actually see the walkers in action, something we still have yet to see in the books. It is necessary to make sure viewers know what the real threat is and this scene, especially the closing shot, establishes that perfectly.

As far as why Jon didn't just flee, if you notice there is a pause just before he decides hold back the undead charge. I think he was weighing the decision in his mind and I loved that moment, because honestly I never bought into the wilding/NW alliance in the books. Here Jon made a conscious decision to prove to the wildings that they were in this together. If in that moment he turned around and left then what sort of alliance is that?

The non-rowing rowboat was confusing but I think it was just to show the shock on the rowers' minds that they literally just saw thousands of dead raised.

I like your explanations and I agree that the actually choreography of the scene was done incredibly well. I think it's just simply the fact that I like the supernatural stuff the leas interesting in the show as well as in the books. The whole negotiation scene was a carbon copy of stuff we are used to seeing in fantasy/historic movies. The dialogues weren't bad just tad bit predictable and so was most of the stuff that happened afterwards.

The Blackwater battle or the Battle at Castle Black head be on the edge of the seat because I was very emotionally invested in the characters and because there were so many powerful quite moments. This time I knew Jon was coming back so the only people in danger were Tormund and Edd. I predicted that the Thenn will save Jon or that the she-wilding will die. The only reason why she got so much screen time was so that her death would make us feel bad, which I though is a fairly cheap and predictable trick.

We and the characters have known for years that the WW can raise the death so seeing it happen didn't particularly awe struck me.

The whole scene was incredibly well done and probably the best battle sequence on the show so far but I didn't feel emotionally invested and the predictable dialogues and scenes broke the immersion for me.

I am usually very forgiving when it comes to the show. I have been enjoying this season quite a lot but Hardhome has to be my least favourite episode this year and one of my least favourite overall.

The non-willdling stuff was surprisingly boring and not that much interesting. I think I expected more from the Tyrion/Danny as well as from Cersei's imprisonment. The Sansa/Theon stuff was quite emotional and I think I enjoyed that scene the most.

Hardhome felt like a mini version of a typical fantasy movie. It was laden by one cliche trope after the other. The whole sequence was just too predictable and generic and I could guess what everyone was going to say or do seconds before it happened. There was some good tension in the end and great acting from Jon but otherwise, it was pretty underwhelming. Why didn't they just flee from the start? What was the point of fighting back? And, why at the end didn't they row as fast as they could? The fighting was cool but I honestly don't care that much about bloodshed.

The Bran Snowflower theory: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/112624-a-theory/

i second that. :thumbsup:

Yes, to several above... there is no way Varys got reports about the Hound without reports about the girl with him.

And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't take note of the entourage that left KL with Yoren....and there is no way Varys didn't know about the pursuit of Gendry/death of Yoren/fate or the rest of the entourage.

And backing up, there is no way that Varys' little birds didn't scope out Arya in the crowd at the Sept of Baelor, and even before that, wandering aound Flea Bottom.

There is. Varys and his littler birds are not omnipresent.

dont know if anybody posted this yet but did anybody notice the kid in the nightswatch saying hes a very good archer, hes gonna kill ygritte forsure

Good catch. I think you are right. He definitely had a good long look at Ygritte when he was hiding under the table (or what was it) during the wildlings attack.

The thing that people are forgetting is that watching something happen, even in the background of a TV scene is much different than reading about it. You can choose to visualize it or not when you read, and you don't hear cries of pain or torment. You can kind of block it out and deal with it yourself. Honestly the books are like 100x worse than the show, imagine they showed someone raping a septa and literally chewing her tits off? Or starving a woman and having her chew off her own fingers? It would be ludicrous.

:agree: I am personally glad that they are toning down thing for the show: not sure if I could handle watching Ramsay's victim being torn apart by the hounds. I just don't understand why apparently any rape/violence described by GRRM serves plot or character development purpose while if depicted on the show it is gratuitous and only serves to fulfil HBO boob quota.

I am not saying the scene in Craster's Keep was an easy thing to watch. Not at all. I skipped it on my rewatch of the episode because it is simply too disturbing. But it felt completely in-style with George's writing. He tends to go over the top with the description of violence and it's hard to find a chapter, in which someone is not raped, threatened with rape or someone is not boasting about how they raped somebody. It's just that reading about it is slightly easier than watching it. It's been awhile since I read ASoS so I don't remember the details but Sam's description of what was happening at Craster's after the mutiny was a pretty disturbing read.

The mutineers were mostly rapers and murderers who were forced to join the Watch. I think it portrayed "nicely" how they are basically dead men walking living in the moment: they have no structure, no organisation and no purpose. If they go back to Westeros they're dead, if they leave Craster's and head north they're dead. We see the stage between the "kids thrown into a candy shop" to the "Craster's larder is not infinite and this is the rest of our fucking lives".

I don't see a problem with them keeping Ghost. Direwolf is a rarity, a source of entertainment, and they (or especially Karl) might have though that they could tame him eventually (Jon did why can't they?). A trained direwolf could hunt for them, protect them, intimidate others etc. They probably just fed him scraps or some junk that nobody else would eat anyways.

Ser Pounce!

That made my day. Still can't get over how old show!Tommen is.

I voted 1/10, the worst episode of the series, the third season is a let down.

You are absolutely entitled to your opinion. It just boggles me that, if you think that something was complete and utter shit, why go on the internet to further read and comment about it. Life is too short to spend on things that you don't enjoy. :cool4:

I absolutely adore both Ygritte and Rose Leslie (and I actually didn't much like her at first! but my god she's grown on me)

Me too. Loved the Jon/Ygritte scene in the final. Rose totally nailed it but I was really disappointed with Kit's performance. I know that lot of people here doubt Kit's acting abilities and hate his portrayal of Jon but I never had a problem with it until now. Jon/Kit's facial expressions and delivery of his lines felt completely off and ruined the mood for me a little bit. Even so, it was a great and powerful scene.

When Talisa remarked that the band was very good, I winced. The band being horrible was one of the main observations Catelyn made in the book.

She might have just wanted to be polite or was trying to have a chit chat with the Frey guy. Besides her opinion has no value. She's a foreigner and knows absolutely nothing about how "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" should sound properly. :drunk:

It did.

It turned the Red Wedding into a Romeo and Juliet love story tragedy where the young couple in love are murdered, with the focus on the love story.

Lack of Northern bannermen erases the fact that the North is still loyal to the Starks, that multiple people died trying to save Robb Stark's life at the Red Wedding instead of having them all slaughered without much ability to fight back with the only person trying to save Robb being his mum. There would have been no cost issue to give 2 or 3 Northerners some screen time this season [instead of Shae or Ros or Pod] and then have them die heroically at the RW.

Lack of direwolf action is a shame because it robs Greywind of the heroic death he had and it reduces the link between the Starks and the wolves, but plot wise its not a big deal.

I feel like we must have been watching some different version of the RW. Mine was like in the books primarily from Catelyn's POV and focused on the desperate attempt of a mother to save her child.

I think we will see some Stark/Tully bannermen fighting in the next episode. I believe that the writers wanted to portray the horror of being trapped and caught completely unawares so having a big fight would have changed that atmosphere. They wanted a slaughter not a brawl.

Let's say that Greywind gets out and kills a few Freys before he is shot down. How does that change anything or make the outcome any better? If anything it is even worse because you get the few seconds of hope were you think that maybe he will run inside and save Robb and Cat or at least himself. I think Grewind's fate exactly mirrored Robbs. Both great fighters but trapped, outnumbered and completely powerless against what was coming.

I thought the RW was masterfully done. I have a few nipticks and few things that I wished they have done differently but I am more and more realizing that they are completely irrelevant since the scene captured the atmosphere from the book almost exactly.

It happens to me often that I think that the scene could have been better if they said or did this or that but I think I am probably just fooling myself. After all the writers/directors do many takes of every scene and make different variations before they decide on the final product. There is a good chance that they actually tried the scene with "Rains" playing the whole time or with the drum or with silence or with Roose stabbing Robb from behind or with some extra lines from the book etc. but it did not work that well or destroyed the atmosphere so they didn't go for it.

THAT'S why I'm so bitter about it. There's NO WAY Barristan would ever get drunk on the job, but that's exactly what he's doing.

I appreciate constructive criticism but it seems like you are just inventing things to criticize for the sake of it. It`s fair enough to say that you didn't like Barristan's expression because you expected him to be more serious and it almost look like he was drunk but to flip out and say that show Barristan is a drunk who neglect his duties, when nobody else noticed that, is ridiculous.

You really don't see how this shows Barristan is drunk??? :bs: He looks like he's just got home from the local pub.

Well I really don't. Watching the silent gif, Barristan's expression could be interpreted as someone who had a few too many but in the context of the show not at all. It did not cross my mind when watching the actual episode (twice) and based on other people's reaction I was not alone.

I don't see any signs of Barristan being drunk either. I just see him being calm and relaxed in a tense time, showing his experienced in comparison to Dany's lack of such which has her nervous and unsure what to expect. It also makes no storytelling sense whatsoever to have the most honorable of the King's Guard mess up his job when he finally serves someone he deems worthy, and then not make a point of it at all.

Perfect response. If they wanted to show Barristan getting on a slippery slope (why???), they'd made it a tiny bit more obvious.