~DarkHorse~

6 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Why do people think Euron is an agent of the Others?  WTF?

He's a madman.  I thought the chapter was interesting in that he's got valyrian steel armor, and he appears in visions seated on the IT.  It could be argued that he's something like the sequel's tendency for over the top violence and gore.....but the jury is still out on that one...he will clearly be a serious foe of Dany and everyone else in Westeros.  I can't say I've changed my mind about the idea of a crazy, sadistic, sorcerer pirate not being the best character to bring to the forefront, but he seems a bit more interesting now.

Not an agent...yet, but a wannabe. I see him as being like the Joker, "some men just want to watch the world burn." He wants to be a god. Personally, I think that makes him a very interesting villain, far from cartoonish or simply a mad man. 

Anyway, you should check out PoorQuentyns theories on Euron if you haven't already. Check out their Euron tag on their blog. 

These are some of PQ's best Euron theories:

Euron and the Eldritch Apocalypse 

Euron is the new Night's King

Euron is the rogue student of Bloodraven:

Evidence

basically he is the anakin to bloodravens Obi-Wan, while Bran is the Luke (I am simplifying this, but you get the gist) 

Possible pointers on the show that point towards this theory

20 hours ago, Dizzy Walker said:

IMHO, when character Davos was looking at the blood,  it was more of taking a moment to get a grip on how Jon's death changed the circumstances of the Watch, the people around him, and what it means for himself and watch was going to happen next. Davos didn't miss a beat through the rest of the scene, he kept his head through it all, the mutton comment showed that. But he needed that moment to take it in, and go from there.

      But I think D&D put it in just to mess with us knowing people would ponder on it, just like that image in the clouds at Hardhome had people thinking an ice dragon was coming....still could be..that cloud was pretty convincing...

Did anyone catch when Davos called himself a "learned man",  I took this as a reminder of Shireen, he would not be able to call himself a "learned man" if she had not taught him to read...or did I misunderstand what he was saying?

Well, if it hadn't been for Shireen, he would not have been able to read the 'TRAITOR' sign and get a full grasp of the situation. 

45 minutes ago, Ingelheim said:

Then make Jaime stay at KL, as he is for the most part of AFFC. Then you can make things between Jaime and Cersei go worse and worse (or not, as D&D seem to want, but still better than his Dorne arc), and, voila, there you have it. It fits more with both books and characters.

And sure, I know Shireen, Stannis and Doran are going to die. The question is how. I can assure you Stannis won't burn Shireen, nor Ellaria will kill Doran.

Those are changes I would have made to Season 5, and I'm pretty sure they couldn't have been worse than Show Dorne. You cannot create an entire storyline around fanfiction, and, as good as I think the Show is, Dorne was that, plain fanfiction.

If they wanted to include Dorne for the 'female empowerment' they could have just cut the Sandsnakes and included Arianne and the queenmaker plot. I would have rather had the adventures of Darkstar than the show Sandsnakes. 

The problem is that it was illogical. Period. It did not even make sense within the shows verse. I have unsullied friends who can't wrap their heads around Oberyn's vengeance being the slaughter of his other sibling and nephew (the whole point of him being pissed about Elia). 

I thought this was a good episode, but the Dorne plot is dead. I am just going to ignore it. It is hands down the biggest disappointment of the show so far (followed by Sansa's arc last season). 

1 hour ago, J. Stargaryen said:

There are a couple of enhanced pics here. In one of them I've circled the wings and placed an arrow roughly parallel with the tail.

For the record, I'm not exactly convinced there are wings or a tail, and people have been claiming to see shapes in the blood since last season's finale. It's a lot like seeing shapes in the clouds. But especially the top "wing" resembles the show version of the wing/arm appendage. It's very angular.

He is the third head of the dragon. I saw this on tumblr: http://thesleepyhousewife.tumblr.com/post/143359562081/i-dont-care-how-far-i-have-to-reach-to-tell

But yeah, they seemed to be emphasizing the blood stain with Davos looking back at it. 

Has anyone saw this masterpiece yet?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rEvyOct7YE

F*ck you Olly! :lmao:

I can't see Jon remaining with the Nights Watch after that. In the books there were only a handful of people involved and they showed some remorse, on the show there were about 16 men involved. How can he remember all of their faces to execute them all? The only NW brother (not just an extra) that is not against him is Edd. There is no one else on Jon's side, they have been cutting away with them all so I can't see Jon remaining in the Castle Black setting.

I think Mel and Davos will get Jon out of there and he will be taking on the Boltons/Littlefinger (?) next season with Sansa. He will enter the political game (D&D have probably been desperate for this) but will continue sticking with his goal to 'protect the realms of men' but it won't be as the LC of the NW. Jon and Sansa will be avenging the Starks next season.

In the books I think it will be Stannis who defeats Roose and/or Ramsay but D&D have probably given this to Jon.

The Sand Snakes' cunning plan to get Trystane immediately killed.

It is so stupid! :bang: :bang:

The Selyse picture was real!!!

The Jon one probably was too then!

For Sansa.

Hopefully

I'm worried about FTW now. It looks like Jon won't break his vows for the people he loves (Ned, Robb and Ygritte) but he will break them because Stannis needs his help....?

True. Forgot about poor Davos. The only honourable man left. He'll probably get gang raped or something soon then.

Davos is an honourable man, he will do better on Team Stark/Snow.

Hopefully, Stannis has nothing to do with it in the books, though!

"When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen."

There it is. Shireen will be burning for her kings blood in the books.

There's absolutely no reason to think that.

Look at the quote Senor de La Tormenta is posting here.

I haven't seen it yet, but this was posted on IMDb. It is from 'Inside the episode' -

"When George first told us about this, it was one of those times that I remember looking at Dan, and going, god, that's so horrible, and it's so good, because it all comes together in a story sense. From the very first time we meet Stannis and Melisandre, they are sacrificing and talking about king's blood, and the power it contains, and it all leads to this, to the sacrificing of Shireen."

Apparently, the 'Inside the episode' reveals that GRRM was planning it all along and it is not another piece of D&D fanfiction...... :dunno: :bawl:

When Jon killed the White Walker, it's Ice blade fell to the ground. He should have took it as a trophy to prove that he killed a White Walker and maybe it could have been used against other White Walkers. Maybe, they can be harmed by their own weapons? Although, I understand the situation was not suitable for strategic thoughts. Amongst the panic, he probably never even considered the Walkers weapon lying there.

I laugh when people criticize Kit Harrington for his 'wooden performance' and showing 'no emotional range.' He is playing Jon Snow who is one of the most introvert characters in the books! You know, the same Jon Snow with a face that 'gives nothing away.' He is playing Jon Snow well.

Some of Emilia Clarke's best acting was in season 1 when she was playing vulnerable Dany so she is certainly capable of sowing that side of Dany but the show are trying too hard to make Dany badass and regal. I would criticize the writing, not the actress.

I gave it a 7. It is the first episode where I really feel reading the books ruined it for me. Even so I acknowledge it as technically the best finale, perhaps with the exception of 1's and is undeniably WAY better than last season's finale.

The Stannis and Mance scenes were pretty well done in a short amount of time. The only complaint I have is the lack of the chant in some form(complain #1 stemming from reading the books).

I like the Cersei scenes, primarily the first two. I've always viewed Tywin as a tragic character, despite him being an awful person, and thought Tywin learning about his children's incest drives this theme home.

Mountain not suffering is a weird decision since all they needed to do is show him being drugged heavily after screaming for a minute. This is a complaint unlike most of mine, in that its worse for those who haven't read the books since we know what he was going through. Like the chant this is a minor exclusion. Really like Qyburn, his actor makes him far more distinct than in the books.

Bran's stuff was off for me. The fight in the books was more of a mad struggle towards the tree while far too many undead to ever hope to fight off swarmed them. I don't mind Jojen's death- at all actually- except for how it was done. It was shot weirdly, and the way he was stabbed was very unimpactful and looked lazy as hell. Him being blown up also didn't make ANY sense. If the fear is that later on he will be reanimated then why not just blow up one of the already animated skeletons that are coming at you instead, or just get in the tree since you know they can't follow. They should have stuck with the massive number of undead coming from all sides, and had Jojen be claimed that way instead, being dragged into the swarm. Heck, if they are deadset on blowing him up at least then this is a better reason, with him being an unintended casualty of firebomb meant for the undead. These are both book reading complaint #2 and general complaints about the scenes problems.

Bloodraven I didn't hate, however in the scene preceding him the line "the power that moves them is powerless here" is just terrible and totally amateur stuff, Likewise BR not having one eye but referencing one eye is equally amateur. As for the much anticipated "but you will fly" line, which is arguably one of Bran's most memorable book moments- it fell way short of what I was expecting instead of being a goosebump inducing scene. Book complaint #3, and particularly one that wouldn't have bugged me had I not read the books.

Dany's scenes have been equivalently awful as Jon's in season 2 this season so it was refreshing to see pretty decent scenes from her that didn't overstay their welcome. I am also proud of D and D for finally keeping her far away from the ending scene for once.

Brienne, hound and Arya I'm split on. I don't care that it didn't happen in the books, but it just seems too contrived that we get yet another meeting of main characters on what looks to be open terrain no less and that the hound and Brienne end up fighting rather than discussing things. If Brienne at least had some reason to suspect Arya was being held hostage I could see it... but as is. ugh. The good news is that the start and circumstances was(almost) the only bad part. The fight itself was very good and extremely intense, and certainly a suitable "death" for the hound. The follow up scene with Arya was absolutely excellent with the exception of the hound suddenly being in a good place with Brienne despite fighting to the death. I think the justification they used was that it was better to gamble on going with her than being guaranteed to die traveling alone, but this was expressed terribly(and perhaps I'm misremembering them justifying it at all).

Tyrion's scenes were a mixture of being watered down by book expectations and poor decision making. The release was very hasty and almost came across as saying "lol you actually thought Tyrion had a chance of dying?" to those who didn't know what was coming, as if there was never any danger and Oberyn's death and all the build up was therefore pointless. And of course expecting a dramatic goodbye and getting a hug and kiss instead was very off-putting. But more importantly than its effect on Jamie/Tyrion's relationship(which I don't mind) is the effect it had on the following scene- seeing as his decision to confront Tywin should only come from momentary insanity/extreme anger because of the fact it could easily have been marching to his death. He seemed like he was, and should have just been happy to have been set free. Instead the average viewer's reaction would be "Wait does he think Jamie betrayed him?" "Where is he going?" "Huh, how'd he know there was a hidden path to the hand's tower?"

It was inconsistent with TV Shae to go for the knife to kill Tyrion. Why did they even bother changing her if this was the direction they were going? And because of the lack of reasonable motive for going after Tywin, the confrontation with him fell flat.

As for the concluding scene, it was fine but.... No Stoneheart was a massive disappointment and the fourth thing that reading the book caused. With all the in-show hints pointing to her coming(see bran's season 2 vision, all the cat references, inclusion of Beric, having Brienne with Pod and alive etc. etc.) it was the perfect time to reveal her. If they start next season with her, I will probably be able to forgive this, but it seems as if she is cut based off certain interviews, so I am even more bitter about this.

All in all a good episode, watered down significantly for me by having read the books. If they start with SH next season it'll gain half a point for me in retrospect, but otherwise I honestly hope they just totally abandon the source material so I can just divorce the two in my mind, even though they've already done most the big moments.

Excellent Review! You have basically highlighted all the issues I had with the episode.

This thread is comedic gold! :lmao:

I don't think the episode was a "1" by any means. That's ridiculous. The acting, costumes, and sets have always been superb on this show. For the show to be a "1," I'd have to see actors struggling to deliver lines, watches left on characters' wrists, and cheap props for a set.

Just as dumb as voting "1," however, is voting "10." Sorry, but I don't see how anyone could honestly rate this as "100% - perfect," unless they're just asininely trying to counter asinine "1's." For any fan, seeing HBO mangle the events at King's Landing alone (Jaime's regression rather than progression, Cersei's whitewashing, a rushed rescue of Tyrion, the removal of Tysha and the revelation of that betrayal, Tywin's final confrontation with Tyrion being weaselly and weak instead of proud and defiant) should take it out of "perfect" eligibility.

Exactly, 1/10 is ridiculous and unfair (a tantrum) however, the 10 mark having the most votes is really irritating me. The episode was very good but given the material it was based on, it could have been much better. I don't understand how any book reader can rate this as a 10? Yes, I know the show and books are different but the show is still based of the books and when they alter things- usually to simplify- it gets frustrating when the book version is much more raw and complex. With the right portrayal and build up (less talk on beetles and more on Tysha for example) things could be cinematic gold.

GRRM has made a world full of complex characters and it saddens me (although, I expect it) when the show favours fan favourability over making a character more complex. Yes, I am talking about Tyrion.

It could have been much better (LS being blaringly obvious as the PERFECT final scene) but I will re-watch it and try to focus on not what my expectations were, but what is being presented to me. However, setting the books and show apart is not something I can do. The show is an adaption of the books and the source material. Of course I am going to compare the two and judge how well portrayed the characters and scenes are and what the changes add to the story.

Wait.. so people were hoping Jon would turn gay? Or am I just taking your comment out of context?

Read this :lmao:

It is usually just a joke but some people do ship it.

I don't think he would go gay- too out of character but maybe a little Bi-curious. :P

Seriously, I don't ship it romantically but I do find their relationship cute and I don't like Val/Jon (can't figure out why it is so glorified) so any alternative will do. This is my way of denying it.

I gave it a 9.5

For me it was better than Blackwater. I was more invested in the threat facing the characters and enjoyed the displays of heroism and humour sprinkled through the epicness- it was more than just the effects. I was really feeling the characters. They all stepped up and accepted their fate- Grenn and the Vow scene was beyond touching. They were fighting for survival (all brothers in arms) and not just the usual power grab which made it unique for GoT. The whole thing was entertaining and movie worthy.

My only criticism (preventing a 10/10) is finishing 8 minutes early and not including the whole battle and Stannis showing up. Dragging it out to next week degrades the whole thing as other, more exciting events will be happening. They should have ended the episode with Stannis turning up and the battle ending.

I did enjoy that Jon was the hero of the final scene (being all matyr) but he could have easily had his shinning moment in the final with the LC election. However, I doubt we will be getting that now. He was great though and Kit did awesome.

Overall, this will become a re-watch favourite! Awesome episode!

Looks like Val will not be cast and Tormund will replace her.

Val/Jon shippers won't like that. :lol:

Oh, well we lost Satin so Val getting the cut is only fair...please, not Alys though!

So long as there's no filler moments next episode, No Ls reveal, and no Eyrie. Then it can be done. One or two scenes for Dany. One for Bran. One or two for Arya. One or two for our long-awaited Stannis (and hopefully not rushed right away in the first five minutes of the episode!) then everything else in KL.

No LS reveal = This forum will explode from the hissy fits!

The LS reveal is the most worthy finale scene, not including it would be madness.

And this was a good Jon Snow episode? I have no problem with Stannis not being there, I have not problem with the deaths, but this was epic failure. This was like wannabe-Blackwater, and ended somewhere in confusion of what makes a good episode with an epic battle. Nothing here was faithful to the books, and that even isn't the issue here. The issue is that this sucked as the episode, not as the adaptation. This was badly constructed, unimaginative, humorless, uninspiring... There was CGI on some moments, but at the end, nothing that would live up to "as big as Tv gets"

Wow.