Jace, Extat

Gaza gets billions in aid every year from the U.N. with Hamas gone and unable to steal all that money the area can be rebuilt. This is a very well written piece of wrong. Hamas attacked first. They decided the terms of the exchange. I appreciate your desire for non-violent resolutions to crises but it's just not how the world operates. There is no common ground to find with Hamas, it's a death cult and a jihadist organization. They must be dealt with. You use a superb narrative trick with the repetitive reframing of my statement, but the other conditions don't apply. Hamas isn't in those countries, the Ukrainians never attacked Russia first. The Uyghurs didn't produce a terrorist statelet out of U.N. aid and Iranian funding. South Korea and Taiwan do not send marauders into China or North Korea searching for innocents to slaughter. My argument is not that weak states or minorities should be bullied by stronger states without recourse. We stand with Ukraine against Russia, even though they're going to lose. Because Russia attacked first. Again, I enjoy your argument for a moral and ideal world response to horror and tragedy, but at the end of the day you are more or less arguing that a great power play impotent when confronted by war and terror. That's just not possible, I'm afraid, and while you are entitled to your opinion I think it's wrong. And I don't think that a majority of people would support whatever responsive policies would emerge from your worldview when a real crisis hits. But that's okay, baby Like, I'm glad that there are people in the Palestinians' camp. They're going to need that support after the war with donations and volunteers and political support in the west. Rebuilding Gaza, without Hamas and with a responsible government that shares your dedication for peace and moral intercourse will be the work of decades. It's not a small task and deserves big support. We disagree here, now, because today is a time of war. But I think you're a good dude. I don't have beef with anybody on this forum because of their opinions and I think it's important to talk about this stuff.

I say give it to McCaffery. He has 21 TDs!!!

Israel has to destroy Hamas, for security purposes. You're not wrong, they are creating problems of tomorrow but the fact is that Hamas had to go today and this is what it takes. They have a murderous statelet of terrorists to fight right now.

I pretty much agree outright with this, and it's why I get a little freaked out when I see people explaining away Hamas' actions as inevitable or, God help me, liberatory. I don't want to watch allies bomb cities. I don't want to watch anybody do that. But if violence is the game then Israel is going to win. It's up to the Palestinians to produce leadership that can start to get a handle on the reactionary parts of the population. Not easy to do, especially when and after massive infrastructure damage and loss of life from war is affecting your people. But if this doesn't happen then, as you say, the cycle is inevitable and Israel has no choice but to seek the threshold of violence that guarantees the state's security. Well, the question of how much responsibility a particular group of people have for the actions of their rulers or governments, even in a despotic or terroristic system, is an interesting one but not the point of this thread. (The answer is not "none", by the way) But I think I covered this with my response above. At some point the Palestinian people either produce leadership that leads towards peace, or we do what we've been doing. As to the children? Dude it's horrible. Not just that those kids are living through this, but that they'll have to live through the aftermath and have to be the ones who will choose that long illusive peace. That is a horrible draw. But it has happened before and the sooner it happens for the Palestinians the better for all. Germany and Japan in 1945 up to the present day come to mind.

Okay. ________________________________ What an awful and patronizing way to dilute the agency of the people you're claiming to champion. Because the people of Gaza couldn't possibly learn from war and decide to move as a community, if not a government, towards peace. Couldn't possibly! It's an ugly fact, but you can beat the violence out of a society. It's been done before. Hamas broke the cease-fire, and Israel's return serve is going to break Hamas. If the Palestinians want to keep choosing violence then they will keep getting bombed. It's that simple.

Jesus, this is becoming a body bag game DangeRuss!

I would trade every player on the Colts for Mike Tomlin. You can build talent, coaches are rarer than gold.

The republic lies drunken on the lip of an abyss. Merry Christmas.

Does Trump even debate Biden at this point? Does he have to?

Convert to Republicanism, repent later when King Trump dies and we are liberated from the tyranny of Ivanka by a Canadian-Turkish coalition in about 13 or 14 years. Sure, they never would have invaded a MALE tyrant, but we'll confront the sexism of our liberation and emerge stronger as a proletariat.

Now that's a movie I haven't seen in a long time! I miss the days of practical effects. Meanwhile, as to grievances... I got nothin', really. More excited for Christmas than I've been since I was a kid.

I've been living in a Rocky montage just getting ready for the day. Wait 'till I use my LEER ability on him!

Yeah, well we don't read so good neither!

The deaths of non-combatants is not a means to Israel, it is an unfortunate byproduct of modern weapons of war in dense population centers. You've lost or ignored the ability to see the difference between organized barbarism and collateral damage.

Grim, for God's sake listen to yourself! You are literally arguing that ends justify means, and if not nobody will remember anyway. Dude, that's your argument! The classic argument of those who engage in political violence.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doctor-who-treated-freed-hamas-hostages-describes-physical-sexual-and-psychological-abuse/

Dawg... I mean, really just But there it is, y'know? There. It. Is. And that's how liberals wrapped all the way around the political spectrosphere to emerge making defiant speeches on behalf of the dignity and defensibility of Hamas. Splendid. The kids aren't all right.

As a matter of fact I am. You're not a real military if you don't have an airforce and guided missiles. And no, I don't mean leftover Chinese and Russian surplus from the eighties. Ask Saddam how helpful the 4th largest military in the world is if you don't have modern doctrines and equipment.

Yeah. Sorry, my bad. Because Nigeria has modern military capabilities... The sad fact is that if Hamas had access to the kinds of weapons Israel has there would be no Israel. Meanwhile Israel will call phones for days, drop thousands of leaflets, to clear out buildings before striking on Hamas strongholds. Acts of brazen murder or criminality is the exception to Israeli conduct, and the point of Hamas.

There's a reason that civilized powers, with modern equipment, don't strike first. Israel could flatten Gaza, they could do it in a day. Real, 1945, indiscriminate shit. They don't.

Name one! Enemy combatants, on soil, slaughtering and hauling away captives on motorbikes. Name fucking one modern-armed nation that's endured such an attack.

That's fucking savage. I always thought of you as such a nice boy, too.

Because God hates gamblers. This is splendid.

Nah, she's the one egging him on. Chani is Fremen, Fremen, Fremen.

Holy FUCK!