Mychel_Redfort

1 hour ago, RhaenysBee said:

@DMC What I found odd is why he waited so long to kill his wife, and not get rid of this “problem” much sooner. 

Because before, he wasn't ordered by the king to stay in the Vale with his wife. How do you get around that? Get rid of the wife.

Worked for me too

Yes, I think this is a direct reference to the band. Marillion was everywhere in the UK back in the mid-late 1980's. I thought of them immediately when I read about Marillion the singer at the Eyrie.

Marillion's biggest hit was a song called 'Kayleigh'.

Big fan of the band too, but according to this post, it's a coincidence

I agree sometimes finding the reference can be a chore, I've been there. But again the problem is that my page numbers might not match up with yours. Having a page number that is not correct for your edition would make it even more confusing. Just giving the chapter may not be very precise, but at least we know it's accurate for everybody.

Has it ever been considered to use the paragraph number ? They're not numbered, but you can always count them by hand, and above all it's independent of the editions.

For example :

"You have five trueborn children," Jon said. "Three sons, two daughters. The direwolf is the sigil of your House. Your children were meant to have these pups, my lord." (101-069)

There's also this quote from Game 21 :

"Ser Alliser is an anointed knight, one of the few to take the black since I have been Lord Commander. He fought bravely at King's Landing."

There's a mistake here, because we know from Mance's story of his first meeting with Jon when he was a boy in Winterfell that Qorgyle was still Lord Commander then, so Jeor couldn't be Lord Commander during the Rebellion. But if Jeor meant "since I have joined the Night's Watch", then he had joined before the Rebellion.

Could you mention the chapter that is stated in, so the source can be added as well?

Game, Eddard I

He was halfway down the alley when the cobblestones began to move beneath his feet. The stones are slick and wet, he thought, but that was not it. He could feel his heart hammering in his chest. "What's happening?" he said. His legs had turned to water. "I don't understand."

"And never will," a voice said sadly.

The cobblestones rushed up to kiss him. Pate tried to cry for help, but his voice was failing too.

His last thought was of Rosey.

It's more than heavily implied, and the appearance of "Pate" in Feast's last chapter confirms it. I agree there can be de doubts for some characters, but the real Pate is clearly dead.

It's mentioned several times. I can quote the occurences in the three first books :

Game 23, Jorah to Dany :

"The common people pray for rain, healthy children, and a summer that never ends," Ser Jorah told her. "It is no matter to them if the high lords play their game of thrones, so long as they are left in peace." He gave a shrug. "They never are."

Game 45, Cersei to Ned (and Ned remembers it twice) :

"You should have taken the realm for yourself. It was there for the taking. Jaime told me how you found him on the Iron Throne the day King's Landing fell, and made him yield it up. That was your moment. All you needed to do was climb those steps, and sit. Such a sad mistake."

"I have made more mistakes than you can possibly imagine," Ned said, "but that was not one of them."

"Oh, but it was, my lord," Cersei insisted. "When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground."

Game 58, Varys to Ned :

"The High Septon once told me that as we sin, so do we suffer. If that's true, Lord Eddard, tell me... why is it always the innocents who suffer most, when you high lords play your game of thrones? Ponder it, if you would, while you wait upon the queen."

Game 71, Stevron Frey to the northern lords :

"My lord father would urge caution," aged Ser Stevron said, with the weaselly smile of a Frey. "Wait, let these two kings play their game of thrones. When they are done fighting, we can bend our knees to the victor, or oppose him, as we choose. With Renly arming, likely Lord Tywin would welcome a truce… and the safe return of his son. Noble lords, allow me to go to him at Harrenhal and arrange good terms and ransoms…"

Nothing in Clash

Storm 24, the Liddle to Bran :

"The Bastard's boys, aye. He was dead, but now he's not. And paying good silver for wolfskins, a man hears, and maybe gold for word of certain other walking dead." He looked at Bran when he said that, and at Summer stretched out beside him. "As to that Wall," the man went on, "it's not a place that I'd be going. The Old Bear took the Watch into the haunted woods, and all that come back was his ravens, with hardly a message between them. Dark wings, dark words, me mother used to say, but when the birds fly silent, seems to me that's even darker." He poked at the fire with his stick. "It was different when there was a Stark in Winterfell. But the old wolf's dead and young one's gone south to play the game of thrones, and all that's left us is the ghosts."

Storm 61, Littlefinger to Sansa :

"Why should I wish [Joffrey] dead?" Littlefinger shrugged. "I had no motive. Besides, I am a thousand leagues away in the Vale. Always keep your foes confused. If they are never certain who you are or what you want, they cannot know what you are like to do next. Sometimes the best way to baffle them is to make moves that have no purpose, or even seem to work against you. Remember that, Sansa, when you come to play the game."

"What... what game?"

"The only game. The game of thrones."

This page was created on the wiki. Before the author of that page starts spending a lot of time into creating it, is a page on this subject truly necessary?

The expression is mentioned several times in the books, so yes, I find the page relevant.

2) A metaphor or allegory of this kind should come naturally.

But it is natural : Tyrion is likely to be soon beheaded, why wouldn't he ponder about mortality and the sense of life ? Tyrion could be angry now, wishing to see all his accusers dead. But no, he puts things into perspective and blame it on absurdity. And he's honest with Jaime : show!Jaime needs this scene to justify his telling the truth about Tysha in the season finale, that will trigger Tyrion's change of mind. Imagine how the Unsullied will react, with Tyrion going in 2 episodes from remembering how he tried to prevent Orson from crashing beetles to killing in cold-blood Shae and Tywin !

I think the problem with this lies on the fact that some readers might perceive Jaime as someone he isn't. I've read some comments about how this make him take a "step back" in his redemption arc. How is that exactly? Jaime hasn't yet changed. He has changed his attitude TOWARDS Brienne, that's not the same. Even the worst people in Westeros have a soft for somebody else. When Jaime first arrives to KL in books, he still is quite annoyed by Brienne's presence, even though he does cares about her. He calls Joffrey "squirt of seed", he barely felt anything about his dead, he wanted to marry Cersei (which probably would start more wars) and even having more children with her. In Show is different but the feeling is the same, he gets to KL and realise how powerless he is: no one recognises him, her sister/lover pushes him aside and blames him for leaving, Joffrey mocked him, Trant mocked him, his father wants him to give up the only thing he actually likes, even Brienne nags him about Sansa and on top of that, he can't do the one thing he enjoys besides Cersei: fight. He's POWERLESS. Rape -in fiction- is about power. Another King died under his watch, Cersei doesn't even let him be around Joffrey when he dies (once more, he pushes him). So, he takes it on Cersei who is now finally powerless as he is. He's broken in book and show and he's not the only character who cracks when broken. Loras killed two men when Renly died, I don't see him being chastised as much as Jaime has.

Very well spoken, I completely agree with you. Add to that Cersei begging him to kill Tyrion and him realizing how hateful she is, that's what makes him finally break.