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Count Balerion

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  1. they were always bad at management. the explosives in morocco and hodor's permanent back injury and the chap almost falling off a cliff and so forth are from when the show was good.

    evil dany was a last minute decision. the original idea seems to have been dany accidentally setting off wildfire while burning red keep. we know tat it was widfire and not dany that was burning civilians indiscriminately.


  2. FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 30. A LOT OF SOPHISTRY TRYING TO "DEFEND" EVIL DANY AND JUST SHUT THE BLAZES UP ALREADY, PART 2

    EC: they periodically gave her notes on how to play. sometimes told them "don't tell me what to do w/ my girl. i know what to do!" she'd
    sometimes fight back. "i get that she has to be steely and unforgiving and a powerful force. but in this moment she's also a goddamned human being. so i'm going to give you that and i really pray you take that in the edit."

    [take careful note of the following]: "many others on the creative team likewise didn't have any idea that daenerys was headed for such a dark fate."

    alex graves (director): "i actually did not know we were telling the story of daenerys going the way of her ancestors. i thought we were telling the story of her *not* doing that."

    follows a summary of dany not being evil: unselfish hatred of slavery. [emphasis is off, though. see lindsay ellis and mauler's reviews, where it's shown very clearly that dany, even in the show, has good intentions and her purpose is to help the weak.] "daenerys was a character who always *preferred* to do the right thing, so long as doing the right thing didn't entirely thwart her own ambition or undermine her perceived authority to rule." [and how, pray, would not burning a city THAT HAD ALREADY SURRENDERED to the ground thwart her ambition or undermine her authority?]


  3. 8 hours ago, SeanF said:

    The mass slaughter of the smallfolk at Kings Landing, during Robert's rebellion, the rape of Elia, her murder and those of her children, the massacres in the Riverlands, were simply the acts of a man who was "lawful neutral."

    Tyrion armed the hill clans of the Vale in order to murder innocent peasants;  he destroyed men with wildfire in order to keep a man he knew to be psychopathic usurper in power, he strangled his girlfriend and murdered his father, but what a hero?

    Cersei murdered people with wildfire, and got off on torture, and was just "a girl in need of a man."

    Hanging Olly, gouging out Trant's eyes and subjecting him to slow slicing, feeding a man his sons in a pie before opening his throat and receiving orgasm as you watch him die, poisoning an entire family, feeding Ramsay to dogs and slitting a man's throat after a farcical trial are all badass.

    But, killing slave drivers, a pair of traitorous lords, and reacting"coldly" to the death of a man who just threatened to cut out your unborn child?  That's just beyond redemption.

    yes clearly an abomination. #JusticeForSlavers


  4. FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 30. A LOT OF SOPHISTRY TRYING TO "DEFEND" EVIL DANY AND JUST SHUT THE BLAZES UP ALREADY, PART 1

    this is the chapter that tries to argue EVIL DANY made sense b/c not "predictable" althogh although it's also "foreshadowed and just zark off.

    it's worth remembering that GRRM has said that the thing that logically would happen based on what you have set up is what ought to happen. if you set up X, don't change to Y just to avoid being predictable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lw9eGOjYxE&t=30s

    and speaking of DRAGON DEMANDS, he proved fairly conclusively that EVIL DANY is a last-minute change. the playlist is at https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxojMpX5XGoUFMyga3IHXjORsJhoxhb8B. see especially https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uleMYE0eWg0&list=PLxojMpX5XGoUFMyga3IHXjORsJhoxhb8B&index=6

    bear all that in mind.

    and God help us, this chapter is brutal. it destroyed our souls.

    the title is "the things we love destroy us". [how deep.]

    [the chapter opens with a lengthy scenario intended to mock fans' objections to Evil Dany. the whole thing is a screaming strawman.] drogon blasts the battlements and terrified the city watch and golden company. the city surrenders and dany sits the iron throne. cersei is executed for treason. jaime takes the black. dany legitimses jon as a stark and they get married. they rule westeros peacefully. [this story makes a heck of a lot more sense than what we got.] "if only."

    this scenario is too predictable. martin would veer off in unexpected riections [which *made sense*] which were "more aligned w/ the complexities of human nature". [SHUT UP. EVIL DANY IS NOT COMPLEX!!!!!!!!]

    EC: "i cried when i read the scripts." [it's worht noting that evil dany carpet-bombing KL and massacring civilians is NOT IN THE SCRIPT. this is EC's reaction to dany *accidentally* killing some civilians on the way to the red keep, and *accidentally* setting off wildfire.] "i went for a walk and didn't come back for hours b/c i'm like 'how am i going to do this?'"

    weis: "dany's trajectory was implicit in the first season." [no it isn't. it was a last-minute decision.] viewed brother's death "w/ a stone-cold killer-like lack of affect."

    there follows a list of things that prove dany was going to be evil. [they're taken out of context and the emphasis is off b/c there are far more that are the other way.] at qarth she says she'll burn cities to the ground, she crucifies 163 masters, she promises to the dothraki they'll kill their enemies" [that's really a stretch! all conquerors do that!], and [horror scream] she burnt the tarlys. [only one of these is close to burning KL, and is only words. oh just shut up.] the tarly scene was meant to show dany's not OK. [why? jon hanged SEVERAL people including a CHILD. is HE not OK?] "but fans had spent so many years on team dragon queen that they had grown accustomed to daenerys executing her perceived eneies. [JUST SHUT THE BLUE BLEEDING BLAZES UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

    KH: "you're culpable you cheered her on." [SHUT UP.]

    bryan cogman: "there's a dangerous tendency right now to make art and popular culture feel safe for everybody." the story is meant to make you "think and question". [oh, i question, all right. i question how the bleep this makes burning KL any less utterly nonsensical, as well as offensive. YOU NEVER SET THAAT UP, STOPPRETENDING YOU DID, AND STOP PRETENDING IT'S DEEP. IT ISN'T. COMIC BOOKS ARE DEEPER THAN THIS RUBBOSH.]

     


  5. FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 5. DISASTER TV, conclusion

    KH "i was slightly POed i was on a dragon"

    "as williams pointed out, the cast and crew didn't have the luxury of getting sick. but, of course, some got sick anyway." [well duh. you need to ALLOW for that.]

    EC "mo-co [motion-capture] was called the infrimary b/c everybody got sick w/ a most intense flu. everybody in the room was f***ed. i was incredibly ill on the back of the dragon."

    "some said it took them six months to fully recover from filming." they "proudly" donned "i survived the long night" jackets.

    glen: "wihout getting too Method about it, it bleeds onto the screen."

    "the critical reaction to the episode was quite positive, if less effusive than the team had hoped."

    boonioff: "maybe my proudest moment from this show was when screening THE LONGEST NIGHT at the mann's chinese theatre."

    complaints about lighting. bryan cogman cites story of cinematographer on LOTR films being asked where lighting was coming from, and replying "the same place as the music." "but that was never GOT. you write a battle at night, then this is how you light it." [why?]

    complaints season needed to be longer. those who worked on it insist they could not haves shot more hours.

    should have made season 9? no b/c of "showrunners' belief that there wasn't enough story" [??] and cast and crew could only manage season 8 b/c they knew it was finale.

    bernadette caulfield: "several of our hero team members were like, 'i almost quit.'" [BUT is that b/c of the number of seasons, or the way D&D were managing?]

    NCW "if that hadn't been the last season, there would have been a mutiny halfway through the night shoots."

    BC "D&D did not hold back. they wrote the biggest that they could." they tried to reduce some things, but D&D and miguel "nope, we need it." "every dept. was stretched beyond where we should have stretched them."

     


  6. FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 5. DISASTER TV, continued

    bradley: "miguel was very keen on making us think in terms of our own narrative all the way through."

    "even sapochnik, who also directed ... 'the bells' reached his limit."

    bernadette caulfield: "he kept yelling 'i was supposed to have a bigger break!'

    deborah riely: "he was *so* exhausted. i was trying to get miguel to focus on making decisions for 'the bells' while he was shooting 'the long night' and he just couldn't."

    "the punishing delirium of making LONG NIGHT was compounded by director david nutter simultaneously shooting episode 4, LAST OF THE SNARKS, which *also* used the winterfell set."

    deborah riley: "we were working on 2 episodes at once. ... you're always trying to stay ahead of a moving train, and there were times i felt like the train was running over the top of us."

    bradley had to redo to look less a "bada**"

    for the blizzard fog the NK created, there was choice of CGI or fog machine. "naturally, THRONES opted for real smoke, which meant burning paraffin and fish oil inside the studio. but as they inhaled smoke day after day, crew members began coughing up fish wax. face-covering breathing masks multiplied on set. at least one crew member was taken to the hospital for an asthma attack." doors were opened periodically to let in air, and crew members would go out in cold for a break from 'the "comfort" of the studio'."


  7. FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 4. DISASTER TV

    glen: "i don't think ppl can comprehend what 11 weeks of continuous night shoots does to the human body and brain. it destroys your system and your thinking. ... in storytelling terms it made sense b/c of what they were up against. but it ... completely f***ed up your body clock. ... you get to sleep at 7 in the morning and then you get up in the midday and can't really do anything. it was the most unpleasant experience in all of THRONES."

    dempsie: "every night there was a tipping point around 2 AM where everybody started behaving a little bit weird."

    gwendoline christie: "it was utter madness.it's the crew i felt for. they were the ones who were truly at the face of brutal suffering when it came to the relentlessness of the schedule."

    maisie williams: "it was night after night and again and again, and it just didn't stop. AND YOU CAN'T GET SICK." [emphasis mine] ... you get wet and then at 4 AM the wind comes and your leather outfit is soaking and you just have to keep going. ... there are times when you're just broken as a human and just want to cry."

    dave hill: "i don't know how miguel [sapochnik] did it, b/c i was not sane, and i didn't have to be fixing things every second of every day."

    glen: "how miguel managed to hold it together is beyond my comprehension."


  8. 22 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

    That's just hilarious!

    Not today? I guess they forgot the "god" of death killed a bazillion people THAT DAY. And since when is he a god? That makes no sense in any context, and is disrespectful of the characters and their beliefs.

    Also what magic does Arya have? It's a bag of faces anyone can put on. On the show, anyone could wear them and the same thing would happen. Jon was resurrected, supposedly a big deal but... nope.

    Also... Other people she killed before had blue eyes, so it already happened. They justify retcons with old lines, not realizing it only shows how empty the lines were in the first place.

    not to mention she never actually uses the face magic after offing the freys. no comment!

    famous five? God help us.


  9. more fun!

    FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 3

    lyanna mormont: "it's as if someone removed her fear gene."

    carice van houten on melisandre: "she saved the day, so she's a bit of a hero." [did she?] "i wasn't able to nail the sentence. ... i got a bit cranky. i feel like i'd done 60 takes of that line."

    "given that the night king is not in martin's books, the manner of his death was a major climactic decision that was left to the showrunners. they initially considered several hero candidates ..."

    benioff: "it had to be someone w/ believable access to valyrian steal. we didn't want it to be jon b/c he's always saving the day." [is he though?] "ultimately it wouldn't have felt right if it was jon or the hound or brienne." [we're back to *feeling* right]

    sam's book of dragonglass has a picture of arya's dagger. beioff again: "that dagger had been set up from the very beginning, and we knew arya was going to get it at the end of season 7 to kill littlefinger. it had to be arya. it goes back to the whole 'not today' thing."

    weiss: "'what do we say to the god of death?' well, the NK is the closest emobdiment of the god of death."

    wanted to make us think jon would do. there was an obstacle insurmountable save throuhg magic. arya has magic. [so does jon]

    maisie williams: "mmmm, it should be jon though, really, shouldn't it? ... the hardest thing is any series you build up a villain that's so impossible to defeat and then you defeat them. it has to be intelligently done."

    mel's prophecy that arya will kill ppl w/ eyes. hibberd blandly remarks: "the scene suggested arya was fated to kill the NK, although the order of the eye colours was changed to conclude w/ 'blue eyes' when melisandrer epeated the line."


  10. 17 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

    Giving Arya’s training a purpose: so killing the Frey’s wasn’t part of that purpose? And then she does nothing with it for the last three episodes.

    It’s stuff like this that makes me wonder if Arya was meant to die in this episode only for Benioff and Weiss to decide for her not to die, because she does Jack shit in the last three episodes; she might as well have been dead for all the purpose she had.

    arya was there so that maisie can make faces.


  11. FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 2

    sapochnik: 'the process of whittling down the script took a lot longer this time because D&D wanted to keep everything. we all wanted everything but were up against the reality of what we could achieve." wanted to relieve monotony of killing by having intercut w/ suspense/horror scene.

    "... nothing ever goes precisely according to plan -- especially when filming outdoors in hostile weather." you need to be able to improvise, so he suggested a schedule of 11 consecutive night shots." then you can move the camera around.

    to our knowledge no show had attempted a filming schedule like this one.

    cunningham: "f***ing hell. this is a nightmare. it's like a deliberate attempt to f*** the whole thing up."

    dave hill: "but the amount of logic we'd have had to bend to get jorah to the Wall and and get him to leave before [her tragic turn] -- there's no way to that blithely." [the square brackets are in the book.]

    whether arya fulfilled the prophecy or melisandre encouraged her is unclear [this is the retcon where arya kills NK b/c she's going to kill ppl w/ .... eyes]

    COTF "created a demon" to be NK. but hempstead-wright: "he's not a monster; he's a weapon who's gone badly wrong. he's an innocent man w/ a piece of glass plunged in his heart."

    KH on azor aharya: "i like it b/c it gives arya's training a purpose." "it will frustrate some audience members ... but that's kind of THRONES." [what training?]

    showrunners ruled out ice spiders b/c they probably wouldn't look good.


  12. FIRE CANNOT KILL A DRAGON, CHAPTER 29. THE LONGEST HOUR AND A HALF AND I CAN'T SEE THIS RUBBISH SO BLEEAH. PART 1

    "but had anyone understood in season 1 where the show would be heading, winterfell would have been put in a different spot and not a boggy sheep farm."

    logistics hard enough w/out wading knee-deep in mud.

    "when you factored in the amount of time the THRONES team spent filming the final season, the intensity of staging the final season, ... and the show's brutal outdoor working conditions, the obstacles faced by the show's cast and crew during season eight were, as NCW put it, 'unheard of'."

    KH: what was a 1-day shot 2 years ago is a 5-day shot now. "consistently having to have your emotions that high, it became f***ing exhausting."

    "arguably the longest consecutive battle sequence ever filmed -- an 82-min. episode."

    boonioff: "having the largest battle doesn't sound very exciting. ... part of our challenge -- and really miguel's challenge -- was how to keep that compelling."

    sapochnik: "at some point you exhaust an audience." "why, as an audience member, would i care to keep watching."

    "... a variety of character-driven stories."

    weiss: "story [driven] by character, not by how many swords and spears you can swing around." "most battles are the last 15 mins. of a movie for a reason. ppl lose interest."

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