Gregor's Nancy Boy

How does that not make sense? He can't want to save his brother and have sex at the same time? Cersei seduces him but that doesn't mean she changed his mind about rescuing Tyrion. I believe the purpose of that scene was to show that Jaime, as far as he's come, still wants to be with Cersei and rule the world together. But ultimately, it doesn't stop him from doing something good. Something that he knows she would hate.

Nine. Final Answer. Bad No mention of the Horn of Winter (I guess this means the real one will never be found in future books) Everyone bringing up Ygritte to Jon Snow Gregor being in no sort of pain whatsoever (totally messed up Oberyn's revenge after death) Qyburn making it completely obvious to book readers that Gregor does indeed become Ser Robert the Strong Emlia Clarke's mediocre acting The shepherd with the bones not being the same shepherd as before (I think that would have been better...) Shrinking of Rhaegal and Viserion for catacombs scene Night's Watch amassing an enormous funeral pyre smack dab in the middle of Castle Black's courtyard Death of Jojen (again, another character/plot subject revealed to be unimportant to the future of the books) Underwhelming interior lair of the Three-Eyed Crow (just a bunch of dead roots in a small, confined space) Underwhelming Three-Eyed Crow (looked and sounded like some run-of-the-mill old man chilling in a tree) No mention of Tysha! That story had a lot of value/purpose, why cut it from the show? Shae dying literally 15 seconds after Tyrion begins choking her No LS reveal. God damn it. Ok. That's it. And truth be told, I don't really give a shit about none of that (at least at this moment in time). It was an obligatory critique. Now... Good Jon's lamentation on his friend... "He was their king. Last of a bloodline that stretches back before the First Men." "... Grenn came from a farm." LOL yes! I was really disappointed with his death but at least Jon stays true to him post mortem. Mance trying to reason with Jon. He's so persuasive you almost want Jon to accept. STANNIS THE MANNIS RIDING IN LIKE HE WAS THE GOD DAMN KING OF ROHAN ON PLANET HOTH ^ whole sequence was pretty sick ... ^ seriously, that shit was awesome Cersei rubbing the fact she fucks Jaime in Tywin's face. Seeing him actually in shock for once was pleasantly disheveling. Jaime letting himself be seduced by Cersei despite all the evil shit she's doing. After everything, he's still just a man. Jon's crying face. Let me hug you, Kit. Exterior view of the Three-Eyed Crow's lair. Beautiful and true to the book's description. The entire skeleton attack sequence. The CGI on them was so well done. They looked incredibly creepy. Meera kicking ass not because the director wanted her to look cool but because she was desperate to save her brother. Jojen's disturbing death by dismembered skeleton hand. Well done even though I know he's an irrelevant character now... The Children of the Forest being actual children with super cool saiyan powers. Brienne's encounter with the Hound. They both want what's best for Arya. So hard to watch. Great deviation on D&D's part for once. ^ the fight was ridiculously good. Probably the best I've seen on the show thus far in all honesty. The Hound's last words to Arya. Him revealing everything to her in taunts and evoking nothing in her but looks of pity. Pod not being killed by Arya. That rumor was really bothering me. Jaime's goodbye to Tyrion. It wasn't so pleasant in the books and I just prefer this instead. Tyrion killing Shae. I've never seen Peter Dinklage give a better performance. That was flawless. Also glad that scene wasn't cut. Tywin trying to coax Tyrion into surrendering by telling him lies. You wanted to believe him just as much as Tyrion did... ^ Peter Dinklage killed that scene, by the way. The uplifting ending. Arya is finally going to Braavos, home to her beloved trainer, the late Syrio Forel. I haven't been reading much of other people's posts yet but I really don't understand some of the 1/10 criticisms I've seen. I thought it was a major improvement over last week's travesty. Much more real and to the heart. I know that most people can't appreciate good quality TV and prefer nonsensical Hollywood narratives filled to the brim with flashy action sequences (See Captain America, Avengers, X-Men, Godzilla, etc) but I was of the mind that the people on this forum were more refined. Looks like I was wrong, oh well.

I'm at the part where Brienne is speaking with the Hound and I'm ready to give it a 10 already. How fucking great was that dialogue. So much good shit, I can't elaborate until I've finished the episode. Totally makes up for last episode. That's all for now...

Lol this is exactly the kind of shit most people go nuts over. Forget all the well written drama and raw human emotion, just overload us with action and violence because our attention spans are so short. Sad ain't it?

No, I think people really are just that tasteless.

Only 19.43% of those who voted believed the episode was a 6 or less. 80.57% actually rated it higher. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Because a fan base isn't created over night. ... :bang:

Not going to lie, people giving it a 10/10 seriously infuriates me. If most people liked this empty Hollywood hunk of shit, there is no hope for Game of Thrones nor is there any hope for cinema in general. It deserves a 6 at most.

Good lord. I can't believe people actually thought this was good. This point in the story hardly meant anything to me in the first place on account of its only importance being the death of Ygritte and the arrival of Stannis (yawn) so I'm not really upset over it but wow... that was bad. Easily the worst episode in the series so far. All I could see was classic Hollywood bullshit. For one, the deaths in this episode were nothing short of comical. Every person who died died as soon as they were touched with a sword (excluding important characters of course). And every death of an extra involved absurd screaming and overdramatic body movements. Love how the watchman who got shot with a giant arrow landed perfectly on the ground 700 ft below. Not. Anyone see that massive, badass scythe thing slice those wildings to pieces?! So fucking cool! Wait. Where the hell did they find time to build something that big? And whose hairbrain idea was it exactly to begin production on an enormous, fantastical weapon which could only be used once and probably had no more than a 1% chance of hitting any climber let alone all of them in one single swing? Two of the only three deaths in this episode that weren't laughably stupid were Grenn's and Pyp's, and they were horrible as well. What a lousy way to send off two supporting characters who have been with us from the start. I know D&D wanted to add some sort of price to be had for the battle and killing off Pyp and Grenn (even though they're both still alive in the books) seemed like an easy route, but why were their deaths so lacking in quality? One is shot through the neck and dies impassively five seconds later staring into space. The other is just found dead. The best part about it is Sam, who was supposed to be as close a friend as either of them had ever had, displayed no emotion whatsoever concerning their demise. All he responds to emotionally is Gilly and she's pretty much just the Westerosi equivalent of the ugly trailer trash girls who live in my neighborhood. Despite all that, there are so many things about the battle which simply didn't make sense. That little skirmish at Castle Black should have been over in less than five minutes. It dragged on forever, like there was an infinite amount of soldiers on both sides killing each other relentlessly. The scythe thing, as I mentioned before, was an idiotic conception. And the door to the tunnel, by all rights, should have been rendered completely inoperative after the shit those giants and their pet mammoth subjected it to. Lastly, the writing was just utter shit. No memorable lines whatsoever and every time an attempt at comic relief was made, it came off as stale and awkward. What did it all lead up to? An entire episode dedicated to some insignificant event in the books? Jon walking outside to meet Mance. Would it have killed them to shorten up all the lame fights scenes and tie everything up with Mance and Stannis? They only had an entire fucking hour. If this is the kind of shit most people on the forums consider to be good, it's no wonder I hardly ever agree with anyone here. Sheesh.

I really like that theory. It makes complete sense considering how much fans complain about all the frequent deaths and what point in the story that scene is delivered (right before another unexpected death). At first I thought maybe it was a reference to God or "the Gods" but George R.R. Martin, in truth, is every character's God. And he is always criticized by the fans, so why wouldn't he also be subtly criticized by the characters as a mindless oaf killing things off for enjoyment? I didn't get the beetle speech at first (I was expecting either Jaime or Tyrion to explain the meaning of it eventually) and I can understand people getting upset with the length of the scene but I have to say I enjoy it more thanks to this comment.

I cannot overstate how well I think Oberyn's death was handled. Gut wrenchingly brutal in all respects. It really stole the show and I wasn't prepared for it to be so violent as it was in the books. At first, I doubted Pedro Pascal's ability to bring one of my favorite characters from ASoIaF to life but he blew all my expectations out of the water with that magnificent performance. Amazing actor. I hope this propels his career to new heights. The only problem I had with the duel itself was Gregor's armor. Of course I would have preferred the original Gregor (Conan Stevens) over this new guy, but that's not a legitimate complaint. He did a decent enough job. I just wish they would have kept the original suit of armor that Gregor wore in season one. He looked so much more fearsome at the tourney of the Hand. I noticed they took away some bits and pieces for the duel such as the gauntlets and the bucket helm. He could have looked a lot better than he did but that's not the actor's fault. The only thing I've seen people really complain about is the high number of cuts during the fight. I noticed that too myself but the thought left my mind in an instant, it was so unimportant to me. It didn't take away from the drama at all. And unlike other people, I could also buy Oberyn's head exploding from the pressure of Gregor's massive weight. Come on guys, have you ever seen it done before? How do you know it's not possible? Didn't look to far fetched to me. Pedro's screams made it real. That and the grisly special effects. Yeah, everyone saw the mess that was left after, but did you notice how fucked up his mouth looked after Gregor punched him in the face? Or how his nose and forehead swelled up just before the end? Gruesome... Concerning the rest of the episode, it was pretty meh. Emilia Clarke's acting is getting extremely stale with the same exact tough girl persona in every single scene she's in. No emotional range to speak of. Littlefinger's batman voice remains as stupid as ever, ruining literally every scene he's in. Did not especially enjoy the Grey Worm - Missandei romance, though well acted. I could have sworn at one point she told Dany Grey Worm was her brother. Really hate it when they make significant deviations from the book such as Asha/Yara breaking into the Dreadfort and then leaving alive by way of Ramsay Snow (wat). This "Hound in the Vale" thing is almost equally as stupid. What sort of leverage does he hope to have at the Eyrie, an impenetrable fortress that may as well be a prison to any enemy of the Vale dumb enough to walk inside with a hostage and demands? Just leave Martin's work alone, there's nothing wrong with it. Some small, improvised scenes I highly enjoyed, don't get me wrong. Oberyn's "that's not a monster... that's just a baby" speech was really really good and Martin never wrote that. But big changes such as these will certainly have butterfly effects and most of the time they just don't make a God damn bit of sense. I gave it an eight though because I don't remember ever being disturbed by a TV show as much as I was Sunday night. And that's special to me. :wub:

Every single aspect? Maybe you need to read my post again. That and Catelyn's last chapter from ASoS. There are a plethora of aspects missing from the books that I neglected to mention because I deemed them unnecessary. This is the first and only episode I've had a serious problem with. It's obvious you can't control your anger because someone criticized your favorite TV show. "This isn't the books" is the most ignorant argument someone can use when defending a mediocre adaption. This show set out to adapt the books as closely as possible and was doing a marvelous job up until the second season. The reason I was upset was because "The Rains of Castamere" could/should have been so much better. If the show was crap in general, I wouldn't have cared. So what you're saying is what you think matters matters and what I think matters doesn't? There were no foreboding details, omens, or ominous undertones in this episode at all. Greywind attacking a random Frey in the TV show is not any more implicative of Robb's fate than Greywind attacking a random Frey in the books. It causes an apprehensive tension, which was supposed to be present. Yeah, I said as much. Too bad the writers made it all about Robb & Talisa. Random? He was a Stark child with a direwolf. Showing Robb rolling his eyes back would have been enough. We don't need to see him changing skins. We just saw Orell do that same thing just a few scenes ago so I'm sure the unsullied would catch on. Episode 9: "Is Robb warging? He's a warg like Bran? Is Jon Snow a warg? Where's Grey Wind? Is he going to survive?" Episode 10: "Wow, they killed Grey Wind anyway! Robb died twice, that's messed up!" What the hell is so wrong with that reaction. It doesn't take away from Robb & Catelyn at all. Those quick little thoughts provoked from that tiny little detail would soon be overwhelmed by the death of Cat. Because the dog wasn't desperate at all. They should have made Grey Wind CGI in that last scene and had him pacing around in circles, digging at the floor, clawing at the door, howling relentlessly. Instead, they put a dog in a kennel and bribed it with a treat from the outside (which was incredibly obvious looking at the body language of the animal). I felt bad for Grey Wind when I read G.R.R. Martin's book. Why would I feel bad again watching a far inferior version? I'm sorry, but weren't you aware from my original post that I was too busy being pissed off over all the aforementioned alterations? So when an actor shows no emotion, you chalk it up to being dead inside? I'm going by Richard Madden's consistently mediocre portrayal of Robb. What are you going by? Because he was shot by a crossbow? YOU DON'T SAY, MR. HOLMES! Can you please comprehend the fact Catelyn's thoughts are what made the Red Wedding as disturbing as it was and accept that the TV show has already made various thoughts into worded lines? Also, try not being a hypocrite. Some were moved because characters they've grown attached to just died. That's it. This was the Red Wedding in its most basic form. Others thought it was a half-assed way to kill off important people. And the way D&D presented it, it was. George's version is much more complex and emotionally invoking. If they had done it better (which was entirely possible), it could have been the greatest episode of the entire series (arguably the best show on television). And here you are bitching about what another person didn't like. You're the one who's coming off as uptight and stuck up. Are you sure you didn't mean to say "in my biased fanboy opinion, I thought this episode was phenomenal" ? And I don't? Ok. Blackwater is one of my favorite episodes so far if not my all time favorite. That episode was done tastefully with appropriate alterations. This one was a screw up. The goal of this adaption was to adapt the source as closely as possible. Benioff & Weiss as well as G.R.R. Martin stated as much many times. Season one succeeded at this. Season two & three? Less so. "The Rains of Castamere" was just an awful excuse for a Game of Thrones episode. If G.R.R.M. was presented the script for this episode and this episode alone before agreeing to D&D's offer, he would have slammed his door in their faces. It is a gift, you're right. Game of Thrones is possibly my favorite TV series of all time. But I'm not going to overlook all it's flaws because of how great it is on its good days. Like I said, this is the only time the show has utterly disappointed me. And I'm utterly disappointed because this is my favorite show based on my favorite books. Lol if you only knew that's how I go into every last episode. So you apologize then proceed to disrespect me again? This episode was total crap and I'm sticking by that statement. Be sick of it all you want; it doesn't mean you're right. Fun fact: Robb, Arya, and Grey Wind showed absolutely no emotion during the Red Wedding. Concerning a decent number of episodes, I would completely agree with you. But the fact you're saying everything about this show is golden all the time really indicates how deep in the closet you really are. You don't need to tell me how to enjoy Game of Thrones; it comes naturally to me. I recommend you learn how to tolerate other people's opinions without shitting all over them like you're superior or something. Then you need to learn how to discern crap from gold (ASoIaF puns :)). Edit: "this episode" =/= the entire episode "this episode" = the Red Wedding specifically

It's never been stated by Martin but every Stark child we've had a POV of has been able to warg into their direwolves with the exception of Sansa. And that's just because Sansa's wolf died too early. The only reason we never see Robb do it is because we're always looking through Cat's perspective. We do know that Greywind was always at his side though and Robb would talk about him often. Wargs are known to enter their animal's bodies once they die. We've seen it multiple times in the books and never has a warg died without shifting. Robb didn't have to be a master warg or even understand what his "dreams" actually meant to enter the body of Greywind upon his death. Robb's wolf died like he did in the books because either he warged into him (like I believe) or he felt his master die and fell into a rage. Greywind was a fierce, Northern beast who went out like a Southron poodle in the show.

[bOOK SPOILERS]

Prepare to see this on every Red Wedding thread on the forums...

These are MY complaints. There are a LOT of them. Let me begin by saying this is my least favorite episode of the entire series and I am utterly disappointed. Benioff and Weiss were the whole reason I started reading A Song of Ice and Fire to begin with. Game of Thrones inspired me to pick up a novel and finish it for the very first time in my nineteen years of life. That novel in turn inspired me to read four more after that. I trusted them completely with this. The Red Wedding was their ultimate goal in the series and they've said it from the start. I am still in disbelief that they would butcher it so badly but I digress. Onto business. 1. Robb's arrival at the Twins was an event in and of itself. His arrival and his death should have been spread out between two episodes as it was in the books with two successive Catelyn chapters. The entire event happened way too fast. For those who have not read the books, Greywind (Robb’s direwolf who has been largely missing from the show until randomly appearing in a KENNEL this episode) attacks some Freys in the rain as they greet the Starks to their castle. Robb, going through great pains to appease Walder Frey, decides to CHAIN his trusty direwolf outside (not in a damned dog kennel). Throughout their time at the Twins, Greywind howls in despair, sensing what is to come. 2. Blackfish & Jeyne (Talisa) are supposed to be safe at Riverrun; not at the Twins with Robb & Catelyn. Jeyne is still alive in the books, supposedly with Robb’s unborn child. An entire plot element currently hinges on whether or not that child is a boy. She should not have been killed off. I’m surprised they didn’t kill the Blackfish as well. How do they explain what he was even doing while his niece and great nephew (KING) were being slaughtered? I suppose he has magically escaped the castle and all the carnage outside to return to Riverrun, where he will most certainly be needed in the future for Jaime’s scenes. 3. Greywind dies AFTER Robb. This is extremely important (sentimentally-wise) as Robb’s real last words are “Greywind…” not “Mother…” It is to be assumed Robb wargs into his direwolf after he dies since this is the same moment Greywind viciously attacks nearby Freys who have not yet began their assault. Robb is betrayed, killed by his own man, wargs into his wolf, then dies all over again. It is part of his death and cutting that out of the show makes it considerably less tragic. To match, the death they gave Greywind here was so lacking in dramatic force or quality, you barely even cared that he was killed. 4. Another thing that makes Robb’s death less bleak is his childish disgruntlement towards Walder Frey throughout the episode. At this point in the books, Robb is genuinely sorry for what he did to his house and wants to make amends. He sustains every slight Walder throws at him without a flinch and handles himself extremely well at the Twins in the face of every petulant Frey. It’s hard to feel sorry for him here with those petty school boy heroics. 5. Most of the deaths in this episode were incredibly underwhelming compared to the deaths in A Storm of Swords. This was for many reasons, unfortunately. First of all, overly dramatic music was being played over everything when we should have been treated to nothing but the Rains of Castamere slowly digressing into the boom doom boom of the musicians’ drums. Secondly, Robb’s actor did an absolutely horrible job at displaying any sort of confusion, shock, fear, or despair. I heard he cried after he discovered how his character was to be killed but you never would have guessed he actually cared from his performance. Catelyn’s actor was MORE than capable of carrying out some of the horrific things G.R.R. Martin described in his books but for whatever reason, Benioff and Weiss decided to stray for something far drabber. Going catatonic may sound like a proper reaction to the soul crushing sight of what you think is your only surviving child being killed in front of you but when Cat’s scream fades out and she just stands there motionless, it doesn’t deliver the jarring reaction her death deserves. It looks more as if she just accepts it and stops struggling. In the books, she scratches her face to ribbons as she screams bloody murder and the Freys waste no time in apprehending her by the hair. As her braid is yanked back, she thinks “No, not my hair! Ned loves my hair!” This would have been absolutely perfect had those been her last words. She literally goes mad with grief but viewers simply can’t grasp the extent of that grief without lines such as this. Jeyne’s (Talisa’s) death, besides being totally uncanon, took away from the relationship between mother and son. It wasn’t supposed to be about Jeyne or Robb’s child. It was supposed to be about Catelyn and HER child. This is the relationship we had come to understand in-depth from Cat’s perspective since the first book. Jeyne’s family were also supposed to be suspected conspirators in the Red Wedding. Their daughter was not planned to be killed along with the Starks despite Jeyne’s alleged devotion to Robb. As I mentioned before, a huge plot element hinges on her and her baby. By the fifth book, Blackfish holds Riverrun against the Lannisters with Jeyne tight under guard. He defends her with his life. Why would he do this if not to protect an heir? Now what are they going to come up with when G.R.R. Martin reveals Jeyne is pregnant with the King in the North’s son? Forget the main characters for a second; part of the horror of the Red Wedding was that so many people you were starting to like were all being slaughtered like farm animals. It is too much to expect to see minor characters such as Dacey Mormont and Smalljon Umber but surely their roles could have been replaced with existing characters in the show. Characters who, in the books, did not matter much. Lopping off the Greatjon’s head in place of his son’s would have been an excellent deviation as the Greatjon is supposed to be held captive then hardly ever mentioned again. Instead, we watch a bunch of bearded men who we’ve never even seen before being killed in humdrum fashions. No crossbow bolts through the mouth, no beheadings; none of that. I doubt it would have had an impact anyway since the gore in this episode was completely unrealistic and tainted by Hollywood action movies. People do not instantly lose consciousness when their throat is cut then fall to the floor dead. When your esophagus is severed, you lose the ability to breathe through your mouth/nose and begin breathing out of a hole in your neck. This is largely impossible though since the wound bleeds profusely, clogging your esophagus with fluids. You essentially drown on your own blood in a panic, making all sorts of horrible snorting noises for up to three minutes. I’m not even sure G.R.R. Martin was aware of this before writing the Red Wedding but slitting throats was never described as one fell graze upon the neck. Catelyn SAWED through this person’s throat until they died. Stabbing a person in their heart is another matter but looks like Bolton missed the mark! Roose had a tiny dagger in place of a longsword and apparently decided to stab Robb in the lower part of his lung (causing instant death… ?). While all this is happening inside the castle, the Stark host outside is supposed to be burning to death by the masses as a result of giant feast tents rigged to catch fire and collapse on top of them. Rather than depict the elaborate trap G.R.R. Martin conceived, it is simply implied all the Stark men outside are put to the sword. Good thing the viewers have no idea how many Stark men there are in comparison to Bolton men or else they would surely question the effectiveness of an open, armed conflict. 6. Roose’s performance here was a huge disappointment. I was setting my expectations high assuming this actor would be the one to do everything right. I was thoroughly enjoying his portrayal of the Leech Lord up until this point. He seemed so smug whereas in the books, he barely made an attempt to talk to anyone. He played his part perfectly while most of the Freys were a nervous wreck. But he was never cheeky about it. Here, he looks like he’s taking great pleasure in taunting the Starks as if he hates them. Roose is a man who plays for the winning team and takes no particular joy in betrayal. He just accepts that it’s practical and carries out his atrocities without guilt. In addition to screwing up his behavior, the actor got his body movements all wrong as well. Roose is supposed to glide in and out of the hall as confident and smooth as can be. Here, he darts around, ducking his head and lunging out of harm’s way. It’s just so unlike the Lord of the Dreadfort. But most importantly, he says to Robb just before he stabs him “the LANNISTERS send their regards.” I’m sorry, but WHY did you change that from “the Kingslayer sends his regards?” WHY do you think G.R.R. Martin set it up that way?! Cat is supposed to believe Jaime had a hand in her son’s demise from that statement. Cat FREED Jaime so she instantly thinks she’s killed her own son with her foolish actions. She’s supposed to believe that Jaime betrayed her later on in the series but of course viewers will never catch on to this. 7. Lastly, Sandor & Arya’s story was poorly done here. Arya was supposed to be desperate trying to get into the Twins despite all the bloodshed so that she could see her mother and brother once again. The Hound somehow managed to knock her out and carry her off unseen without a fret but in the books, it’s a fight for survival. Frey men attack them and Sandor has to kill a few with an axe before Arya makes a run for it. Just as she’s about to reach the castle, the Hound hits her atop the head. It would have been a much more emotional scene to see Arya kicking and screaming as Sandor tries to subdue her like it was in A Storm of Swords. I was so hyped up for this moment ever since I read it in the books. I can’t tell you how immensely let down I am. This was meant to be the most significant event in the entire series and I do not feel they did it justice by any means. Viewers of the show will never know how much better it could have been; how much better it should have been. I’m not done with the series but I can definitely say now that I prefer G.R.R. Martin’s works over Benioff and Weiss’s any day. If they would just stick to the damned books instead of making their own changes all the time, I’d be happy. Cut what you need to but don’t add things that were never written down by the author. That’s rule No.1 of any adaption. I can only see this getting worse as the story progresses. Unless the producers get back on track and start doing things the way they should have done all along, I have no more hope left for Game of Thrones.