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I thought it was a great episode, unless you were hoping the show validates your book theories. Sorry, it was obvious that there was almost certainly a major departure. Lightbringer was never really brought up the way it was in the books, nor was Dawn. The Prince Who Was Promised wasn't really promised very much. That said, book Arya could well be the one kills the NK with that blade because that is the blade that the assassin tried to use to kill Bran, the blade that started the war of the seven kings. It has been metaphorically but not exactly literally drenched in blood. I was pretty sure that Arya would take out someone really important. But the whole plot line seems to be telling us she is going to give Cersei the stabby-stabby. So this is a bit of a switch. I don't think she can be taking out Cersei as well. But she can certainly be part of the operation. The Tyrion/Sansa match up was rather interesting. They are the two people who spend most time actually thinking about ruling well. The problem as Sansa points out is that she isn't leaving Winterfell and Tyrion isn't leaving her queen because she needs him.

This is the first rating thread I have read in a while and I don't think I will bother again. These folk who try to make themselves look big by saying something was terrible and anyone who liked it must be stupid really look small and petty to me. Only takes a few turds to spoil even the best soup.

Bit difficult as Jon is now a Targ and Bran is becoming a tree. That only leaves Sansa and Arya who had scenes last week.

Isn't that the point though? Arya has become a ninja assassin. Gendry doesn't know her now.

It was a completely different situation. Almost every other sex scene was recreational. They were the idle rich literally fucking the country up. Jamie and Cersei's incest led to a civil war that caused countless deaths. Little Finger's customers gave him secrets of state in his brothels that put the kingdom in jeopardy. As for there being no 'chemistry' between the actors. I think that was kind of the point. This is not making love, it is rutting before a battle they expect will end up killing both of them.

If GRRM stuck to his original plot then Arya and Jon are not related by blood. Lyanna probably didn't exist at all until mid way through the first draft. R+L=J is only proven in the show, the books may be different and even if the show is following the books, the books are not following the outline. Jamie was originally the mad king pretty much. Tyrion may be upset at the idea that if Jon and Danny have children, the wheel will turn again. Cersei is going to get a shock then because Jamie is off to warn Jon and Danny of Cersei's treachery. And I bet that he gets to Winterfell first so that Arya and the assassin's team can head south to finish off his evil sister. I can't see any need for Cersei to know anything for this plot. Arguably she did for the previous moves against Dorne and Highgarden but that is in the past now. I am pretty sure that Tyrion understands his sister is likely to by lying but they all know that they have to go north and then fight Cersei after.

We are obviously done with backstory in the show. That is all you are going to get unless HBO decides to make a show on Robert's Rebellion after the books finally come out. As far as the books go, I think it is clear that Tywin orchestrated Roberts rebellion in the same way LF orchestrated the war of five kings. And he got what he wanted. His motive being believing Aerys cuckolded him and Tyrion is his son. My suspicion is that Tyrion is his only legitimate son and it is Jamie and Cersei that are Targ bastards and that this will be the reason Jamie sits of the throne after killing the mad king, the prophecy being that the son will murder the king. Looks like we are now getting a Jamie redemption arc. Faced with a choice between his sister and fighting a zombie hoard, he chooses the latter.

D&D are also about making a TV series and they clearly recognize that the plot is complex enough without additional complications. Not showing the details of Roberts rebellion means that GRRM has a huge amount of material that will be new in the books. Exactly, Gilly was proof-reading the copy Sam made. Yup, there are all sorts of reasons why R+L=J is a silly solution. It is far too obvious for a start. There is no suspense or surprise. We are pretty much told about it in book 1 in the fever dream. It is a solution that is entirely based on modern 21st century ideas. And that is what D&D are serving up. There are a whole sequence of missing pieces in the TV series, all of which are obviously important in the books.

I am certain that we will get an extensive backstory on all that in the books. Further, I think that Tywin plays the LF role in causing Robert's rebellion, setting Areys against Rhegar and then the Starks and Baratheons, all to put his grandchildren on the Iron throne. But D&D are probably right not to go there. At least not now. I think the book will be very different and tie everything together in a very different way. All we have got in the show is we know that Robert's rebellion was based on a lie. But we did not get the prophecy that drove Rheagar.

I think R+L=J is way too simple for the books.

I think it likely D&D don't want to get into the backstory any more than they have to. There are plenty of signs that the book story is a lot more complex than the show. By the time show Jon is born, Rheagar is dead and so are his other two children. So calling the new child Aegon is not really replacing the others.

Well it could be because Tyrion has betrayed Danny to Cersei. But I think it more likely that he knows that his sister cannot be trusted and will break her word. I seem to recall that she was engaged and then called it off. Was Gilly reading the original manuscript or Sam's copy?

From the show. First thing that the TEC says to Bran in the cave is that he has been waiting for him. Then the series of interactions make it clear that he knows that Bran's arrival will lead to his death.

We have seen several trials in the series. The North pretty much goes for the summary justice method. Baelish admitted one murder, that was enough. The Lords of the Vale hate him, they know what he did to Sansa. It is clear that the old three eyed crow could see the future. The issue for Bran would be that if he sees the future, it becomes fixed and cannot be changed. So it is a big risk to do that.

I thought so. But there is so little Valyrian steel that maybe not worth mentioning. The hound would have known the mountain was Cersei's zombie guard ahead of the meeting. I don't think so because Baelish was trying to murder Arya at the time. Maybe. I doubt there is much left for their plot arcs. Stannis was killed on screen. We saw Brienne swing the sword. Even then people would not believe that he was dead.

Littlefinger says his goal is to sit on the Iron Throne with Sansa at his side. So I think we can be sure 1) that happens and 2) LF is not going to like it. I did think it was Sansa going to give him the stabby stabby while he sits on the throne. But maybe it is Arya-as-Sansa

The number of people who think that they can make themselves look big by running the episode down is ridiculous. Don't like it, don't watch. If I wanted high culture, I would go to Beyreuth. This has always been a silly program with dragons and swords and that is what I like. As for plots being unbelievable because character 'would not do that', well yes they do in real life.

Because Brienne would protect Arya if Sansa tried to kill hjer.

Its not his knee she is after and she don't want it to bend.

I did wonder about the wording. Was it Cersei's or Sansa's? Either way, Arya knows that Sansa was captured and can guess it was written under duress. One complication being that Arya has not had any real experience of plots. Her approach has been to kill people dead as a precaution. Also, did people notice the line 'how many queens?'. There are four in the books at one point. So it would not really be surprising if Sansa becomes QITN.

D&D had to move him on before Horn Hill became vacant or else it would stand to reason he could best help Jon by taking his place there. At this point, the Nights Watch doesn't exist in any meaningful form. We don't know if it was before the mad king disinherited Rheagar. It may not have concerned him. The polygamy thing is nonsense, always was. It certainly won't be in the books. Folk peddling that are the same folk who think Stannis wouldn't burn Shireen. It was obvious she was a gonner when Red Mel burned the idols.

Yes, I had thought that the plot was going to be take out Cersei then deal with the Zombie threat. Looks like we are getting it the other way round.

Nah, the show is definitely going for the simple plot. Divorce and remarriage is legit for a Targ. The show universe didn't introduce half the mechanism. E hasn't appeared. I don't think the books will be as simple as Sam finds scroll. I would not worry too much until the end. Arya might well know a little bit more about Littlefingers game than it seems. Or she isn't pregnant. Could be uterine cancer like Bloody Mary.

When I referred to negging, I was not flirting with you, I was comparing your attitude to a slimeball tactic. The way it is supposed to work is that by trash talking everyone else, the negger raises his own relative value. I am saying that no, it does not, it just makes you look rather desperate. I didn't write a successful TV show but the work I have been a part of has been rather more consequential. I really don't need someone trying to prop up their ego with trash talk to validate me.

There are men who teach people to pick up women by insulting them. It is called 'negging'. You appear to be trying something of the same. The attempt at derision, the constant complaining. No, it really doesn't make you look important to tell us why you thing the show is rubbish. If you have written a best selling series for TV then you can comment in those terms. But I rather doubt you would out of simple professional courtesy and because you would understand what the scene was designed to show about the characters.