Modesty Lannister

Why should there be an agreement? This is a forum. Everyone should state their opinion. However, there is a huge difference between unsubstantiated and substantiated opinion. Also, there is a huge difference between season 1, parts of season 3 and the rest of the show. So, I haven't seen anyone who claimed "the show sucks" all the time. And also, what does "the show sucks" even mean? Shall we reduce the forum and English language to that? I respect everyone's right to love whatever they want and I will never understand offended reactions of show fans. I could understand an offended reaction from a CGI expert or a genius costume designer. But, somehow they are never offended, because they did their job to their best ability, which is often outstanding, and they were paid for it. The rest is not their RESPONSIBILITY. See that word? Show runners are responsible for the overall outcome. So, people tend to criticise them. They tend to be very specific like that, because in life we all take responsibilities and therefore we have to take both praise and criticism. I cannot hate a show. I cannot have such strong emotions for a work of kitsch. I can have strong emotions for a work of art. So, I will say "I love GRRM's books. I love "Twin Peaks"." But, D&D cannot raise any emotions in my apart from sporadic sarcastic laughter and overall pity for all the good actors and filmmakers wasted in this project. That is very far from hate.

Get over yourself and deal with the fact that there are a lot of people who did not "enjoy the show" and that these people are also entitled to their opinions. There are people who expect high standards from television shows. These standards are achieved today by many shows starting from "The Sopranos", "Breaking Bad" all the way to "Fargo", "Twin Peaks - The Return". Also, this particular show was based on ASOIAF books that represent GRRM's magnum opus. So, yes, many people expect a masterpiece to translate into a TV masterpiece and not a pile of garbage. If your bar is set low that is your thing. Mine isn't and will not be as long as there are talented filmmakers to push it as far as it can go.

I loved every word you wrote. Can you get a gig and write the next season? I'd watch that with gusto of a pseudo-intellectual that I am. :-)

You know what? I tried to be positive. I tried to divorce the show from the books. I even tried to devise some sort of system, so that my personal feelings would be crushed by numbers. Sod it! This show is a disgrace. It's an insult to GRRM and his work. It is an insult to our intelligence. It is so stupid that it hurts my brain. And, what the most important thing is, it is earning huge amounts of money with brain dead scripts, unbelievable plots, characters that make no sense and the finale that opens with yet another mindless cock joke. This show is important for it is showing the nature the world that we live in. In the world where we face the threat of global warming, which is manifesting itself daily through droughts, torrential rains, tsunamis and hurricanes, in the world in which if you fly over the Alps today you will barely see any snow, but you will see where it used to be 10 years ago by bruised soil close to mountain peaks, in that world you have a clever and beautiful mind who wrote a masterpiece, based on real history, showing us the futility of greed, war and inhumanity, weaving the most beautiful carpet of characters and plots with colour, humanity, developed psychology, more levels and dimensions that we care to find out. And millions of humans read this and fell in love with it and became better people because of it. However, that beautiful magical carpet was thorn to shreds by a greedy corporation following the lead of two moronic untalented egomaniacs. And millions are enjoying the utter travesty, stupidity and abomination that this show represents. This is the world we live in - the army of living souls seeking more profound meanings and humanity against the army of the dead watching mindless bloodthirsty shows. There is divine irony in all of it, but I can only weep. This episode and the entire show deserves only one mark - a resounding 1.

Here we go: - Bronn saves Jaime - again, Bronn shows superhuman strength defying laws of physics and pulling a fully armoured man out of a powerful river with currents and all. Kudos to Bronn. Down with science! -1 - Field of ashes, Daenerys executes the Tarlies - the whole scene is constructed so that we would rethink Mad King's decisions and rethink history as we know it. But, I do not think the audience will do that. Plus, I just waited for the Tarlies to die so that Sam can inherit the house. It was clear from the second he stole his ancestral sword. Plus, nonsensically, his father never tried to retrieve it. Not even when going to war. Another D&D child of nonsense and predictibility. -1 - Jaime in KL - I am glad to know that LF's teleporting machine is working well this season. D&D's love for Cersei knows no bounds. So, Jaime did convince Cersei Olenna was behind Joff's death? That proves once again that she is more or less sane. Who is this woman? Not the Cersei we read about in the books, surely?! But, hey ... look at the quote below the post and everything becomes crystal clear. -1 - Jon Snow pets a dragon - finally, some valuable info creeps in. Drogon loves Jon! Is this because Daenerys is having a giant crush or is it maybe because Jon is Rhaegar's son? Perhaps both. Blood of the dragon calls a dragon. But, that being said, why Drogon? Why not Rhaegal? That would be more appropriate surely? Well, I don't want to call upon logic. It has been thrown out of the window long time ago. I enjoyed the scene and it is an important foreshadowing. +1 - Jorah returns - Emilia has founds her way back to acting this season. I liked the reunion. +1 - Bran sees army of the dead close to Eastwatch by the Sea - apart from great CGI, I wonder what is new there. Jon Snow fought them at Hardhome. They were pretty fast then, but somehow they are moving at snail's pace now. They obviously do not have access to LF's teleport everyone else has been using. However, CGI wins. +1 - Sam trying to reason with the maesters - we have all been there at least once in our careers. I feel for Sam. +1 - Varys and Tyrion musings about responsibility of those giving council - nicely placed after the Sam's scene. I will forget it was there just to give those two more screen time. +1 - "Trust a stranger" - apart from the double meaning of these words (Jon is dead, so he is a stranger), a good development of the theme from the previous two scenes. This Hill guy knows something about screenwriting. +1 - Arya sees through Sansa - I cannot say enough about how good this sequence is. It represents a logical (finally) development of two characters and their relationship from early childhood onwards. +2 - Tyrion meets Jaime - not developed enough to withstand any logic. Had Tyrion mentioned a moving hand Mormont sent to KL or anything that would appeal to Jaime's way of thinking, then yes. This way ... no. -1 - Davos finds Gendry - lovely including Davos joking about Gendry rowing. I see D&D are reading this forum. Now, they should just read the books 4&5. But, hey .. they don't need to. They skipped over them in two worst seasons so far. Anyway, I liked Gendry. I liked how he IS young Robert. I like how he forged a war-hammer. I liked how Hill develops both characters in one minute during the scene with goldcloaks on the beach. D&D should pay attention. No cock jokes there. No time wasting. Go, Hill! +1 - Jaime tells Cersei about meeting Tyrion - some Godfather never goes amiss (Fredo, do not betray me again!). Even poor Hill does not know what to do with a character that strayed so much from the original. Cersei pregnant again?! At that day and age? Wow! Nice effort, but 0 - Gendry meets Jon - Officially, sons of two best friends meet and are to fight together. Really, sons of arch-enemies meet and are to fight together. Poetic! And on higher level, Baratheons bend the knee to Targaryens once more. As it should be. We see Daenerys head over heels for Jon. But, we see her friendship and love for Jorah as well. Nice all around. +1 - Sam had enough - loving the psychology of this sequence. Sam is so enraged he misses the vital piece of intel for the first time in his life. But, he still has that book! So, Jon is legit. We all knew it. Now, we have it in writing so to speak. And he has his aunt-queen. The incest promoting society will be thankful for this episode all around. However, +1 - LF manipulates Arya - my favourite scene in the whole series so far. To those who forgot how clever and dangerous LF really is, it was a good reminder. +2 - The Last Hero - I tried to count, but could not count 12 people in this scene. Nevertheless, it is what it is. I loved how all sorts of misfits come together in the end. All have a role to play. I just wish GRRM can take us there, instead of Hill. But, Hill is a vast improvement compared to D&D. So, keep up the good work and don't let these two in the writing room. They have better things to do being pompous somewhere else. +1 In total 10. I cannot believe it, but I got there. Thanks to Mr Hill.

He can be consulted, but he doesn't have any say. You can find a lot of interviews with GRRM on the subject on You Tube.

So, here we go: Jamie overseeing transport of gold: This scene is what GRRM was warning against from day 1. The butterfly effect of all the unnecessary changes D&D made. Had they not invented that Lannisters were broke (which they are not in the books), we wouldn't have this chain of events. Bronn has to have some screen time, so let's have this conversation about rewards and castles for the umptieth time. Why not? -1 Cersei and the IBoB - the nonsense continues. -1 LF gives the Valyrian steel dagger to Bran - good scene. I like it, because (if D&D are consulting with GRRM about these things at all and that's a big if) it sort of confirms my theory about who was behind attack on Bran. So, I'm smug. Also, I like it, because we have seen a drawing of the said dagger in one of the Citadel books Sam was reading. So, a bit of consistency there. The dagger has a role to play. +1 Meera says goodbye to Bran - a bit of character development there. This is the forth attempt by D&D to show us how detached Bran became since he developed his greenseering skills. 0 Arya arrives at WF - a call back to season 1 and Arya's return to the Red Keep after chasing a cat through the dungeons. It's there to show us how much she changed. Nice meeting between her and Sansa in the crypts. It makes sense that Arya is closed towards Sansa. Well acted. +2 Bran gives Arya the dagger - I like that this ritual passing of the weapon similar to what the FM used for human sacrifices when triggering wierwoods is done in the Godswood. I wonder if D&D are aware of this aspect at all, but it worked. Also, I liked how Arya was unsurprised by Bran's state of mind while Sansa cannot get over it and treats Bran as a weirdo. +1 Pod & Brienne - some screen time for fan fav characters. An oath fulfilled?! Really?! How?! -1 Jon and Daenerys in the caves of Dragonstone - apart from the exchange between Daenerys and Missandei that made me cringe, this was good. Gave the unsullied watchers some necessary background information. Also, good set design. +2 Beach council - not bad. I like how Daenerys doubts Tyrion (at last) and turns for Jon Snow's advice. +1 Brienne fights Arya - I liked this scene for many reasons. I loved the facial expressions of Arya and Brienne when the fight was over with a tie. That glowing satisfaction with a good fight and the fact that there are other women but themselves who enjoy fighting more than any girly activity. I liked how Sansa disliked it. It is a good call back to season 1, but it also showsa growing suspicion towards Arya that started with her mentioning her list and jealousy due to the prospect of losing her female protector. LF was excellent in this scene. As a Braavosi, he was the only one to recognise what Arya meant with her reply "no one" and acknowledge it with a smile and a nod. Does this hint that LF is an agent for the FM? I'd say so. I think that was hinted in Bran's dream back in AGOT, but hey... +2 Jon Snow talks to Missandei and Theon arrives - the talk was necessary for Jon's arc, so ok. Theon arriving and telling us what we already know is just bad writing 0 (+1 and -1 respectively) Daenerys crushes Lannister army - this was great. Well directed. Superbly choreographed. Apart from Bronn who is fireproof. Maybe he is channeling Timmet son of Timmet, but that is just too much stupidity to watch. I loved CGI and I was so rooting for Dhrogo that I couldn't bear to watch. I love these dragons and that's it. +2 8 in total

Jon arrives in Dragonstone - I like this reunion. It underlines how different all characters and their arcs are after seven seasons. Not badly written. Dragons have been effectively used. +2 Melissandre talking to Varys - an explainer, nothing more. With some foreshadowing for the effect. But, moves the plot along. +1 Daenerys meets Jon Snow - well written and acted. Some hick ups like Davos showing no animosity towards the man who caused his son's death. Tyrion not taunting Davos and informing Daenerys that Davos used to be hand of the king Stannis. Well, .... if this show has taught me anything, it is to lower my expectations +1 Theon being despised by the Iron Born - I see NO point in this scene. We had all season 2 to deal with this. It has been established. What purpose does it serve? They regressed Theon to Reek in the previous episode. They are regressing him even further in this one. -1 Euron in KL - counter Walk of Shame. I know what the intention was, but it did nothing for me. Perhaps because D&D never developed those characters in the first place, so their torture, humiliation or death mean next to nothing to the audience. And because of that - 1 Euron presents his gift - the scene is barely watchable for its stupidity. Euron is farcical. Cersei is set up by D&D to develop into this strategic genius. It is difficult to watch, - 1 Cersei tortures Dornish women - this scene actually makes sense. And it makes sense because of the nonsensical death of Marcela. So, two nonsenses make sense. I lived to see that. +1 Cersei comes out of the incest closet - these two characters that have no resemblance to Jamie and Cersei from the books are really living their lives to their fullest now that their children are dead. It doesn't matter that their actions make no sense at all. They are blond and beautiful. We are bound to watch and admire. -1 Cersei negotiates with the IBoB - and the nonsense continues. The biggest of all being that the IBoB can finance slave trade. D&D have to read the books beyond book 3. That much is obvious. But, even Wikipedia provides enough info. So, it is easy to avoid such an error. But, they do not care. The only thing they care about is making Cersei everything she is not in the books as a part of their "feminist" agenda. I am a woman and I want to vomit. Cheap PR. -1 Tyrion JS/Tyrion Daeneys - in one word, Tyrion is a genius, just like Cersei. My avatar's surname is Lannister, but enough is enough. But, since it was decently acted and there were no material errors, I will be generous +1 (1/2 +1/2) A song of Ice and Fire - see what I have done here?! Something that the show should have done. And didn't. However, I am partial to the Targeryian reunion and I want Jon to ride a dragon. So, +1 Sansa channeling Cersei - this show is "all about strong women". And we see it. Sansa is a genius. Why? Because she knows how to count and because she learned that during winter we should wear warm clothes. Genius!!! What an agency! What a strength! And yet, during the whole awe striking sequence, she still has time and inclination to listen to more of LF's wisdom. Strong, brilliant and humble! -1 Sansa greeting Bran - finally a scene worth acting +1 Sansa and Bran in Godswood - I like the inner peace vs. inner turmoil +1 Sam cured Jorah - it is necessary for the plot to know that Boltons were actually the greyscale healers in the north. Oh, wait ... It is not. Meh. 0 Sam gets rewarded - I like the underhanded way the maester allowed Sam to read the books he was not supposed to read. +1 Attack on CR narrated by ours truly - a badly directed scene. Leaves the audience in doubt what actually happened there. I am utterly confused. But, that is because I am not as clever as Tyrion. And neither are you. 0 Attack on Highgarden and death of the Queen of Thorns - at least Olenna stayed in character. And Jamie strangely returns to his character when away from Cersei. I wonder who actually wrote this dialogue. Smells of Cogman. Makes sense. +1 In total 5 if I'm not mistaken. The terrible thing is that I don't care what the final score will be. George, write that book!

- Storm hits Dragonstone: Daenerys grills Varys about his shifty loyalties. Not a bad scene. A bit of dramaturgy creeping in. Whoever wrote it is at least a season late in explaining why Daenerys doesn't kill him, but ... hey, better late than never +1/2 (cannot bring myself to give it a whole point) - Melisandra arrives at Dragonstone: she is basically a vehicle for introducing Jon Snow to Daenerys. Myssande fills in for maester Aemon with dragon gender explanation. At least someone is trying to tie some loose ends and fill enormous gaps left after a thorough butchery of the books. +1/2 King's Landing: - Cersei is spreading fake news 0 - Jamie is attempting to be a diplomat trying to win Randell Tarly over. Not badly acted +1/2 - Cyburn creates a dragon killing machine. The whole scene is devoid of logic -1/2 Citadel: - Sam meets Jorah. Finds out he is a Mormont. Some grayscale background. Meh. +1/2 War council: - Bland in every way 0 - Daenerys get an advice from Queen of Thornes. How many times do the writers need to drive home the same old "power is power"? Is this all the old lady has learned during her long life? Should have gotten -1, but acting was ok. Even Emilia is tolerable this season. Good makeup. +1/2 Greyworm/Myssande having sex: one word - cringe -1 Citadel 2: - Sam basically reveals to his mentor that he is stealing books from the restricted section by saying he knows how to cure greyscale. (where is Professor Snape when we need him?) Then he basically flays Jorah (where are the Boltons when we need them?) There is no logic whatsoever in the whole sequence. 0 Arya/Hotpie: good caracterisation, decently acted. However, director should have worked more on the moment Arya changes her mind and decides to go home. This is monumental for her. The moment didn't look like that in the show. But, still .... + 1 Jon Snow wants to warm up: - not a bad sequence. Tolerable compared to other. Jon deserves to go south a bit. +1 Jon Snow in the crypts: - fan service scene. Why should Jon Snow dislike Littlefinger who saved him? He doesn't know what we know. He knows nothing. So, the whole scene doesn't make any sense. But, D&D obviously do not care for psychological motivation. -1 Arya meets Nymeria: - the best scene of the episode. Well acted. Finallly there is money for some direwolf CGI. But, where is Ghost? +2 Euron kills Sandsnakes and other people: - the whole sequence is expensive nonsense. Badly acted apart from Theon. But, instead of -1 I will give it +1 due to 2 points awarded to Euron for killing idiotic show Sandsnakes and Theon for regressing into Reek under pressure So, the final count is 5.

Before I start, let me be clear. I am trying my very best to divorce this show from GRRM's work. It is not always easy. So, let me start. - Arya poisoning the Freys. The scene is thoroughly unbelievable. No Frey woman does anything to side with their men?! Not one?! No man is trying to attack "Walder Frey" after realising they have been poisoned?! No drama, no nothing and Arya just walks away. - 1 point - White walkers leading the army of the dead. A necessary set up scene. Good CGI. We need to be visually reminded. +1 point - Bran reaching Castle Black. Dialogue nonsensical. Bran did not prove he was a Stark. He proved his was a seer. -1 point - Jon/Sansa confrontation. Jon's mercy. I liked the sequence and the dialogues. Guess Brian Cogman writes them. They make sense. Lyanna Mormont is as great as ever. I love that girl. Good talk between Jon and Sansa afterwards. Good scene between Sansa and Littlefinger. Good set up for Sansa/Cersei comparison. No need for Tormund/Brienne comedy relief, but hey ... +2 points (one for the indoor and one for the outdoor scene) - King's Landing: Jamie/Cersei dynamics makes sense after very long time. However, D&D stop short of showing Cersei descending into madness the way George masterfully did. Euron/Jamie/Cersei not bad, but not too good either. 0 point (for both scenes) - Sam in Old Town: this was excellent. The montage of Sam's everyday chores was brilliant. Maybe a tad longer than necessary, but let's not nitpick. Jim Broadbent cannot disappoint. However, the fact that they said Targaryens used dragonglass for ornaments is nonsensical and damages the narrative. Sam discovering Dragonstone is made of dragonglass is an attempt to tie the narrative from the books that was lost with murders of Mance and Stanis in the show. However, I though this "revelation" is common knowledge amongst the Westerosi aristocracy. Nevertheless, a good sequence. Not too happy with the way they uncovered Mormont straight away. They should have waited for a couple of episodes. + 2 points (+1 for montage, +1 for anatomy lesson, +1 for the library scene, - 1 for dragonglass, 0 for Jorah) - Arya and Ed the Bard: Giving a human face to the soldiers. Fan service. But, well acted. Ed was good. 0 points - The Hound and BwB: Everything was excellent. +2 points - Daenerys arriving at Dragonstone: The best scene in this episode along with Jon's mercy. I liked this slow pace. Emotional. Homecoming. +2 points. In total: 7 points I liked the pacing, photography, costumes were phenomenal, CGI was where it needed to be. I believe eight episodes might work better than 10. It doesn't give D&D time for stupid cock jokes and fillers, so that Cersei and Tyrion can get more screen time they deserve. This was watchable. Fingers crossed. And forget about the books. One can only weep the second one remembers them. Finish that damn book, George!

And this is what you concluded? Who killed Rhaegar's children? Who ranted about killing dragon spawn? You haven't been paying attention. Rhaegar is mentioned in the negative context by only one man - Robert Baratheon on the show. But he was also mentioned by Selmy and other characters.

Where did you get that from the show?

I am sick and tired of a false argument that GRRM's books cannot be translated into a TV show. The BBC has recently produced the entire War&Peace in six episodes. It was a masterpiece and it was a true adaptation. I read War&Peace four times and there was not a single scene missing. The spirit was captured and so were philosophy, plot, characters and their arcs etc. The fact that GoT writers/producers/Gods are simply untalented and bit more than can possibly chew, but their egos so inflated that they ride on that bubble, is too often hidden by their PR machine with slogans like "the show and the book are two separate entities". Did everyone forget D&D's interviews during seasons 1 and 2 in which they kept insisting on staying true to the books, giving them justice and closely cooperating with the author? That attitude got them initial audience. Without it, the whole thing would have been dismissed as a fan fiction. But, in the meantime, the show became a cheap fan fiction, the author separated himself from it the best way he could although he was betrayed by the very people he trusted to give his work justice. Does no one care for GRRM? His masterpiece has been butchered and dumbed down in a cheapest possible way. What kind of fans are we? The books and the show CANNOT be separated.

4/10 Overly rushed plots. The writers dragged the series on and on for almost two seasons, had endless number of appalling cock jokes and then they cram everything in one episode. Lyanna was seen once before on the show. How on Earth are the unsullied viewers supposed to connect immediately who is on the bed dying!?! Various using LF's teleport. Sand snakes ruling the city of Dorne. Queen of Thornes being all chummy with them all of the sudden. Nonsense and stupidity. Good CGI all aroound, but there is NO Ghost. Even in the scene where Jon Snow is called the White Wolf. I wrote again and again about the lack of talent in D&D's writing and I am not going to bother again. One word will suffice - lazy.

10/10 That was a sitting-on-the-edge-of-my-seat episode. And I cared for the characters. That is what it was all about. Not the epic nature of it. Rickon and Wun Wun, Rest in Peace!