Teardrops

what the heck was that?

Thank you, from you is a compliment. :)

Absolutely. You meant: * in my opinon :) :lol:

Oh gosh this is getting ridiculous.. :lmao: I'm done. Anyway for the record, she's undoubtley a beautiful woman but I'm a woman .. a straight woman.

fixed it for you... again... :)

I like someone that according to you is blank faced in almost every scene. ;)

You took her phrase and completely distorted its meaning. Do you think that she said what she said because she wanted him to suddenly change his mind and start yelling "the war is over let's go home"? Really? :uhoh: Talisa just expressed, as a neutral and external observer, her opinion and her disapproval of wars. What she said about the wrongness of innocent people dying wasn't that obvious because those people were in most cases just numbers for their king/lord/whatever. It wasn't Robb's case of course but she learned this only after their meeting ... Are you serious? Being strong and also sweet is possible you know, they aren't opposite or conflicting traits, it doesn't make you bipolar. :lol: You don't like Oona acting. You don't see chemistry. And it's okay but this is just your opinion. I'm sure others agree with you but there also people like me who like her acting and see chemistry between her and Richard and for those people her character and their lovestory worked. Opinions. Tastes. Here in my country we use to say "the world is beautiful because it is varied". ;) The funny thing is that 'I haven't talked to one person off this site' that actually *hate* her. From what I saw and heard people like her, don't like her or are indifferent to her and this is pretty much the same response Jeyne got from book readers. The 'majority' you're talking about is probably just the most vocal part of the fandom and it doesn't necessarily represent it in its entirety. In fact I remember people here claiming that the majority of the viewers "didn't like Robb/Cat anymore" and that "the RW wasn't going to have the same impact and that people would barely care for them" but then last sunday after the episode internet literally IMPLODED. :rolleyes:

Again, why is it odd if a person has different character's traits? If you don't find believable her other traits doesn't mean that she is a 'flip flop character' but that her character doesn't work for you. Oona's acting didn't succeded in making you believe her. Just keep in mind that: personal opinion =/= fact. What you are saying it's not what Talisa said. She didn't say 'killing your enemy is wrong' but 'the war is wrong. Innocent people who had nothing to do with Joffrey's crime (or in the Lannister's eyes Robb's treason) are risking their lives and dying horrible deaths and this is unjust." She didn't see Lannisters or Starks but boys and men, people. It's called humanity not stupidity. That is your personal impression and perception. I don't see her as 'artificially naive' and stupid. What make her an idiot, her idealism? Or the fact that you don't like her and just can't look at her character objectively? That line isn't an 'exclusively pacifistic stand', yeah, it's a logic comment in response to Robb's previous statement in their confrontation. Her words reflected ( and showed us) Robb's inner turmoil and doubts and gave him a way to face them and rationalize them. You can not like the way they chose do it , it's ok, but that is - among others- her purpose in that scene and what really matter in the end.

* http://s20.postimg.o...gx6d98t/erm.gif * You are practically saying that pacifist are idiots that shouldn't express their 'naive' opinion and that a person can't be strong and also sweet . Do you realize how absurd it is? I understand you don't like her, and it's ok, but that's it. You don't like her, Talisa's character didn't work for you. But the arguments you are using against her are so ridicolous that I'm starting to think that you're just a troll and I'm wasting my time.

She acted like she was against the war. She talked about how wrong it was. How injust it was and pointed out how much it cost to people like the man they just helped. When she said 'I don't know' Robb was talking about strategies. You know, you can be a 'pacifist' without being a tactician. she said that making innocent people die is wrong not seeking revenge. She was criticizing the method not the reason. You saw her as bitchy. I saw her as strong, honest and direct (and then simple, sweet and caring). Something Robb would appreciate for the reasons I already stated. You find hilarious that someone who isn't pretentious, arrogant, touchy and is willing to be challenged exist? Oh well, this say it all. Yeah, it doesn't matter anymore.That lovely character sadly is gone and I'm going to miss the wonderful job they did with Catelyn and Robb. ;) I wonder who will be the next character (some) people will concentrate their need to criticize for the sake of it ...

Because you said that "As noble as he is, that's no justification for anyone to say he would actually like being challenged against his authority" and IMO a person who 'doesn't like to be challenged against his authority' is a tyrant. A noble and just man could not like the way someone address him but he would listen nonetheless and if what she/he said is right he would recognize it and appreciate it. Robb could have been taken aback by her boldness but why should he have been annoyed by it? Not only he grew up in a home where strong and free-spirited women were accepted but they were sorrounded by dead and wounded men and they just finished to amputate a leg, I think he could understand her "bitchness" ( your perception not mine ) and if she forgot her manners a little. But even if her tone was too discourteous for you, she was giving him an external outlook (something he was interested in) and asking the right questions so there is nothing absurd if he liked the confrontation. Talisa had a strong opinion about the silliness and wrongness of this kind of conflicts but she never claimed to be an 'expert in the art of war', so what's wrong with her saying that she doesn't know nothing about strategies or tactics?

I disagree. It wasn't something Ned would have done, married or not, he would never NEVER put a girl who chose to sleep with him above the men who are fighting for him and a pre-existing and definitely more important oath when he could fix everything in other ways. And Robb knew this. Robb knew that marrying Jeyne wouldn't just hurt his honor but also his kingdom and the North's cause and therefore it wasn't the right or most honorable thing to do .... but « "I took her castle and she took my heart," Robb smiled.» 'Honor' was just a convenent excuse he chose to use and to believe in. Personally I prefer to see a good and honest young man with his judgment clouded by his feelings understimate the consequences of his actions and admits that he is doing what he's doing for love instead to see him do the same but hide behind an excuse that doesn't make sense. Because Robb isn't a tyrant and Ned teached him to listen to what people - even commoners - have to say. The fact that in the past he reacted doesn't mean that he doesn't accept to be questioned but that he knows when to impose himself and a girl who dares to speak her mind isn't a 'treat' he can't tolerate. Talisa offered Robb a chance to get an external outlook on the situation, something he needed in that moment since, no matter how much confidence he showed before his bannermen, he was struggling with what being a King really meant and the purpose of that war. She asked him the right questions and with her objections made him face his own doubts and this, among other things, intrigued him.

it's because he's show!Robb and there is the need to find something to complain about him. It is known.

What did you want him to do? He was wounded just as bad as in the books ( 3 arrows ), he didn't have any weapon and, as I already said, pleading for her life would probably result in her death. Robb could do nothing for Catelyn but hope that once they killed him they wouldn't hurt her. With his 'goodbye' - among other things- Robb was pratically telling her mother to stop fighting for him -- as silentwanderer said "to give up the knife so that the Freys would take her hostage (instead to kill her)." If he really didn't care what would happen to his mother as you think he would have waited the final straw sitting near his wife, ignoring everything else.

I think Robb just realized before her mother that there was no point to keep fighting and give Walder Frey something to enjoy because they were not going to let him go. He could do nothing for himself or for Cat. Nothing. Not even ask Walder Frey to promise to take his life but not hurt his mother since the old man would probably just kill her before his eyes out of spite. Like Ned he understood it was the end and accepted it. No pleading, no crying, not vain attempts to save his life. He just said goodbye to his mother and died looking at her. I 'loved' it.

He was going there with his 'entire' army and they were going to be protected by the guest right so it was 'safe' for her plus the assence of the Queen - as also stated by Cat in the books - could have been perceived as an insult. So no, he wasn't dumb.