Teardrops

what the heck was that?

Whatever. I'm done. You've got to be the most annoying person on this site.

Thank you, from you is a compliment. :)

Your opinion.

Absolutely.

* There's women in the show much more beautiful than her. And I'm a straight woman too. So thanks for the gag.

You meant: * in my opinon :)

People from Volantis don't display emotion on their faces the way they do in Westeros. Therefore Oona is actually a fantastic actress.

By the way, I can do at least 25 different facial expressions. I rock at acting.

</sarcasm>

:lol:

Okay naively ignore she's a horrible actress with no facial expression range just because your smitten with her.

Oh gosh this is getting ridiculous.. :lmao: I'm done. Anyway for the record, she's undoubtley a beautiful woman but I'm a woman .. a straight woman.

Good for you to like things that according to me are boring then.

fixed it for you... again... :)

If you like someone who's blank faced in almost every scene good for you.

I like someone that according to you is blank faced in almost every scene. ;)

was merely using that as one example that she said. You know, how she mentioned that the men were boys who had never fought before Tywin put swords in their hands. [....]

You took her phrase and completely distorted its meaning. Do you think that she said what she said because she wanted him to suddenly change his mind and start yelling "the war is over let's go home"? Really? :uhoh: Talisa just expressed, as a neutral and external observer, her opinion and her disapproval of wars. What she said about the wrongness of innocent people dying wasn't that obvious because those people were in most cases just numbers for their king/lord/whatever. It wasn't Robb's case of course but she learned this only after their meeting ...

Are you serious? Being strong and also sweet is possible you know, they aren't opposite or conflicting traits, it doesn't make you bipolar. :lol:

You don't like Oona acting. You don't see chemistry. And it's okay but this is just your opinion. I'm sure others agree with you but there also people like me who like her acting and see chemistry between her and Richard and for those people her character and their lovestory worked. Opinions. Tastes. Here in my country we use to say "the world is beautiful because it is varied". ;)

The funny thing is that 'I haven't talked to one person off this site' that actually *hate* her. From what I saw and heard people like her, don't like her or are indifferent to her and this is pretty much the same response Jeyne got from book readers.

The 'majority' you're talking about is probably just the most vocal part of the fandom and it doesn't necessarily represent it in its entirety. In fact I remember people here claiming that the majority of the viewers "didn't like Robb/Cat anymore" and that "the RW wasn't going to have the same impact and that people would barely care for them" but then last sunday after the episode internet literally IMPLODED. :rolleyes:

No I'm saying the way she acted the first time, and then she acts sweet, your word not mine, seems very odd. Her 'sweetness' is so fake. It makes her look like a very flip flop character that the writers just throw whatever personality on her that they need at the moment even if it makes no sense but whatever. And I didn't say pacifists can't have opinions but the ones she was expressing are idiotic to say he can't kill people, his enemy, just because they didn't know how to fight and Tywin was making them. Her logic is a mixture of failure and saying the obvious (in the case of war cost)

Again, why is it odd if a person has different character's traits? If you don't find believable her other traits doesn't mean that she is a 'flip flop character' but that her character doesn't work for you. Oona's acting didn't succeded in making you believe her. Just keep in mind that: personal opinion =/= fact.

What you are saying it's not what Talisa said. She didn't say 'killing your enemy is wrong' but 'the war is wrong. Innocent people who had nothing to do with Joffrey's crime (or in the Lannister's eyes Robb's treason) are risking their lives and dying horrible deaths and this is unjust." She didn't see Lannisters or Starks but boys and men, people. It's called humanity not stupidity.

Well, Talisa is trying to be naive (in an artificial way) and she truly is an idiot (in a very real way).

That is your personal impression and perception. I don't see her as 'artificially naive' and stupid. What make her an idiot, her idealism? Or the fact that you don't like her and just can't look at her character objectively?

"You're fighting to overthrow the king and yet you have no plan for what comes after" doesn't have to be an exclusively pacifistic stand. A Robb supporter could utter the same line, for example. But it wouldn't sound any less ridiculous in that case, either. With Talisa's lines, it would be impossible for anyone to look and sound credible, be it pacifist or something else.

That line isn't an 'exclusively pacifistic stand', yeah, it's a logic comment in response to Robb's previous statement in their confrontation. Her words reflected ( and showed us) Robb's inner turmoil and doubts and gave him a way to face them and rationalize them. You can not like the way they chose do it , it's ok, but that is - among others- her purpose in that scene and what really matter in the end.

Again she is an idiot to say those things when the people he killed in the battle (where they met) where loyal to the enemy. Um, obviously if they engaged in real battle those people, even if they aren't good fighters, would be trying to kill him and his men. And none of the northerners are really that naive to not know the costs of war. Just look at everything that happened to Robb before and during the war. So what she was saying didn't really need to be said. It's kind of pointing out the obvious.

Like I just mentioned above, she said they're innocent, but those people his men killed where she was tending to men where going to try to kill them. They were loyal to the enemy, again it shows she's not smart. She could have said how wars are wrong, but to say them in a way that makes her look stupid I just don't get. That's just bad writing on the producers/writers part.

No I find it hilarious they made Robb fall for a bimbo. (And before you yell at me, someone can be good at something, like her being a nurse, but still be stupid.) That's all I'm gonna say about that.

Nope I said it right the first time. That bimbo is finally dead good riddance. (Obviously the way of death was brutal. So just to clear it up before you, or someone tries to jump down my throat, I'm not happy by the way she died, just that she's dead and finally gone.) And for anyone to think she actually made Robb and Cat better than their book counterpart.. Wow... Just wow.

Well speaking for myself I don't hate any other character like I do her. (Well obviously there's Joffrey but who doesn't hate him?) So I doubt there's anyone I'll hate. Dislike, I'm sure there will be, but no one will compare to that contrived/horribly written character the writers thought up.

Eta; The fact that you state her personality, it shows how contradictory she is. Being strong willed and blah, blah, blah one minute then 'caring' and 'sweet' the next shows the writers used her as a bigger plot device than Jeyne. They just threw in whatever personality they wanted for her that was needed at whatever given time despite the fact it would look odd shes all of a sudden submissive (or whatever word you want to use). They didn't even bother to give her much of a backstory either. The only thing we know is of her brother (which why did she leave him if she loved him soooo much?) and why she's against slavery. We don't really know anything beyond that. Horribly written plot device, I could have very well done without that. I'd rather see Joffrey or Theon torture on screen than that idiot (plus the actress really isn't all that good and has little range for emotions/facial expression/or anything)

* http://s20.postimg.o...gx6d98t/erm.gif *

You are practically saying that pacifist are idiots that shouldn't express their 'naive' opinion and that a person can't be strong and also sweet . Do you realize how absurd it is? I understand you don't like her, and it's ok, but that's it. You don't like her, Talisa's character didn't work for you. But the arguments you are using against her are so ridicolous that I'm starting to think that you're just a troll and I'm wasting my time.

I never said she claimed to be. But she certainly acted like she knew. Who's that stupid to act that strong willed and discourteous if they don't even have a clue what they're talking about? Because if that's the case they made her more dim witted than I thought. Basically she's blowing smoke out of her ass, acts like she knows things by questioning but then later on basically says 'oh I know nothing'. Okay, if she knew nothing then she shouldn't have been asking the sort of questions she was in the first place.

She acted like she was against the war. She talked about how wrong it was. How injust it was and pointed out how much it cost to people like the man they just helped. When she said 'I don't know' Robb was talking about strategies. You know, you can be a 'pacifist' without being a tactician.

The fact of someone saying any guy or girl (in any world or context) would love being told that the revenge they want for their family is silly and stupid and their wrong for wanting justice is ridiculously funny. Yeah someone would really love being told their family values are wrong. Especially if they have every right to avenge their loved ones.

she said that making innocent people die is wrong not seeking revenge. She was criticizing the method not the reason.

And what strong spirited women? Cat doesn't act as bitchy and stuck up as her. Only Arya is even semi close to the same personality as Talisa. Sansa doesn't act like that. Unless your just referring to the north in general like how Mormont women are. I just find it hilarious people think think ANYONE would like to be challenged. Sure Robb might like another outlook but I seriously doubt he would actually appreciate someone being rude.

You saw her as bitchy. I saw her as strong, honest and direct (and then simple, sweet and caring). Something Robb would appreciate for the reasons I already stated.

You find hilarious that someone who isn't pretentious, arrogant, touchy and is willing to be challenged exist? Oh well, this say it all.

Well I don't think it matters now anymore thankfully. At least that annoying character is dead and the Catelyn and Robb butchering is finally put to rest.

Yeah, it doesn't matter anymore.That lovely character sadly is gone and I'm going to miss the wonderful job they did with Catelyn and Robb. ;)

I wonder who will be the next character (some) people will concentrate their need to criticize for the sake of it ...

What's him not being a tyrant have to do with it? Someone can be a nice and good king but still not like the bitchy way she was back talking him. (And my perception was, the way Oona choose to use her tone of voice/etc, made it sound like her character was being a bitch about it.) She could have easily asked some questions without coming off like a snark and like she was trying to belittle him. But she didn't. I can understand if someone is genuinely curious and they're asking in a decent way, but I didn't see that as the case here. Not to mention in hindsight she acts like she knows everything, and then later on all of a sudden knows nothing. That makes no sense to me. So your going to act uppity and snobby while berating him yet later on basically admit you have no damn clue about wars? That just shows how little her opinion means and how the writers made her a complete idiot. The fact they had Robb fall for an idiot is funny to me.

Because you said that "As noble as he is, that's no justification for anyone to say he would actually like being challenged against his authority" and IMO a person who 'doesn't like to be challenged against his authority' is a tyrant. A noble and just man could not like the way someone address him but he would listen nonetheless and if what she/he said is right he would recognize it and appreciate it.

Robb could have been taken aback by her boldness but why should he have been annoyed by it? Not only he grew up in a home where strong and free-spirited women were accepted but they were sorrounded by dead and wounded men and they just finished to amputate a leg, I think he could understand her "bitchness" ( your perception not mine ) and if she forgot her manners a little. But even if her tone was too discourteous for you, she was giving him an external outlook (something he was interested in) and asking the right questions so there is nothing absurd if he liked the confrontation.

Talisa had a strong opinion about the silliness and wrongness of this kind of conflicts but she never claimed to be an 'expert in the art of war', so what's wrong with her saying that she doesn't know nothing about strategies or tactics?

I can agree I don't think Ned would have cheated no matter what was happening and what grieving news he got. But I think if he wasn't married, and in Robb's position, I think he would have married Jeyne.

Or maybe it was just the fact that Robb was raised up by his honorable father that made him realize he had to fix the horrible situation once he took her innocence. Either way it was derived from the fact he has Stark morals. It doesn't matter if Ned would have had sex with her, but I think he would have tried to fix the situation as best he could in that situation, like Robb had attempted to do.

I disagree. It wasn't something Ned would have done, married or not, he would never NEVER put a girl who chose to sleep with him above the men who are fighting for him and a pre-existing and definitely more important oath when he could fix everything in other ways. And Robb knew this.

Robb knew that marrying Jeyne wouldn't just hurt his honor but also his kingdom and the North's cause and therefore it wasn't the right or most honorable thing to do .... but « "I took her castle and she took my heart," Robb smiled.»

'Honor' was just a convenent excuse he chose to use and to believe in. Personally I prefer to see a good and honest young man with his judgment clouded by his feelings understimate the consequences of his actions and admits that he is doing what he's doing for love instead to see him do the same but hide behind an excuse that doesn't make sense.

look at how Robb was in season one, that's another reason I find it unrealistic he suddenly fell for Talisa all because she was spunky/idealistic/and bold enough to question a king. Even someone as young as Robb I can't see would liking the fact someone's berating him. As noble as he is, that's no justification for anyone to say he would actually like being challenged against his authority. Especially when he already has all these bannermen that he's trying to keep in line and show he can be a leader despite his young age (in comparison to them), why on earth would he want to hear/know another person doubting and degrading him?

Because Robb isn't a tyrant and Ned teached him to listen to what people - even commoners - have to say. The fact that in the past he reacted doesn't mean that he doesn't accept to be questioned but that he knows when to impose himself and a girl who dares to speak her mind isn't a 'treat' he can't tolerate.

Talisa offered Robb a chance to get an external outlook on the situation, something he needed in that moment since, no matter how much confidence he showed before his bannermen, he was struggling with what being a King really meant and the purpose of that war. She asked him the right questions and with her objections made him face his own doubts and this, among other things, intrigued him.

His last word in the show was "mother", and he died standing and looking at her. His last words in the book was about his wolf, so I really don't get the claim that show Robb didn't care enough about his mother.

it's because he's show!Robb and there is the need to find something to complain about him. It is known.

I get that, it made it much more sad. At the same time I feel like he just gave up without caring for his mothers well being. It's like his idiot, where is Winterfell, wife is dead so he just stands there waiting to be killed and didn't seem to care for what would happen to his mother. Don't get me wrong i basicallyliked how the RW turned out, it was very heartbreaking, but to think he cared more for his already dead wife than his mother who was still alive, that bothers me.

What did you want him to do? He was wounded just as bad as in the books ( 3 arrows ), he didn't have any weapon and, as I already said, pleading for her life would probably result in her death.

Robb could do nothing for Catelyn but hope that once they killed him they wouldn't hurt her. With his 'goodbye' - among other things- Robb was pratically telling her mother to stop fighting for him -- as silentwanderer said "to give up the knife so that the Freys would take her hostage (instead to kill her)."

If he really didn't care what would happen to his mother as you think he would have waited the final straw sitting near his wife, ignoring everything else.

I still hate that they made him 'give up' without a 'fight'. Cat lost so much more than him yet he looses two people and all of a sudden he gives up? Whereas she lost, after Robb, five people. Kind of irritating if you ask me.

I think Robb just realized before her mother that there was no point to keep fighting and give Walder Frey something to enjoy because they were not going to let him go. He could do nothing for himself or for Cat. Nothing. Not even ask Walder Frey to promise to take his life but not hurt his mother since the old man would probably just kill her before his eyes out of spite. Like Ned he understood it was the end and accepted it. No pleading, no crying, not vain attempts to save his life. He just said goodbye to his mother and died looking at her.

I 'loved' it.

I didnt like how they made Tv Robb kind of dumb, i mean why woud you bring your wife, the lady you married to the dude who you crossed by marrying her?

He was going there with his 'entire' army and they were going to be protected by the guest right so it was 'safe' for her plus the assence of the Queen - as also stated by Cat in the books - could have been perceived as an insult. So no, he wasn't dumb.