Universal Sword Donor

I meant Loras let the garrison sail off.

The siege of dragonstone is definitely over. No doubt in my mind about that. If I had to pick between two options -- Renly let the garrison surrender and sail off to join stannis or it was stormed and Loras isn't really hurt -- the former is the more likely but the latter seems more like GRRM.

No. I do not and it's pretty stupid to do so.

You want to be a part of breaking the king's peace and also want someone else to be part of it? Better pay up

It's a completely fair point. You argued no king had had their marriage set aside. No conditions or qualifications on that. The who, what, when, where, why and how are all very different, but blanket statements are usually set aside for that very reason.

Is Baylor the Blessed not considered a king anymore?

If he'd have just withdrew his levies and protected Frey land against all comers like he did in the beginning of AGoT, absolutely no one would have blamed him. If he'd have withdrawn his levies from Robb and declared for Joffrey, absolutely no one would blame him if he had his troops track down Robb and behead him on the spot. Instead he essentially welcome a new negotiation under a flag of truce and butchered someone he just agreed to be an ally to. The closest thing in Westeros history to what Walder Frey did was the Dornish killing Daeron I at a parlay under a white flag, and even at that point the crown knew the Dornish were enemies who they expected to honor the white flag. Killing Craster under his own roof is probably a distant second or third if you've got a third one I forgot..

Hear me out - Ned: Lyanna if you want your son to live, we have to pretend he's my son and I could leave him to be raised in KL with you. If not, Robert will smash his head with a Warhammer and you will be a silent sister in the best case scenario. You could also end up with a smashed head. Or you could play dead and run away with basically no money and no protection Lyanna: Hmmmm I would not even legitimately know which decision she would make -- wolf blood and all -- but I'd imagine she would pick one where Jon lives. Scenario #3 is probably best case scenario with Ned up in WF and Arryn acting as HotK. "She looks after me as a mom, not an aunt" flies when you're the only blood relative within 1000 miles.

But the argument from non silence does!

Yes because if anything he held her in a perfect hypothetical that Med clearly didn’t agree with. She can’t be “spoiled” if she were taken by “that dirty targ” or whatever he wanted. he doesn’t good enough job ignoring serious issues as king at every point we see

Jeor would take him in a KL minute: The Night's Watch has become an army of sullen boys and tired old men. Apart from the men at my table tonight, I have perhaps twenty who can read, and even fewer whocan think, or plan, or lead.

I guess I’ll just read the contemporary epics written by the troubadours about this particular pre Protestant schism

They do nothing. They already lost when the babies were legitimate and got the big dragons.

I wasn’t aware that notre dame was the definitive book of notable French religious wars. Fairly lacks anything about Charles Martel, Charlemagne, or Vikings either.

I’d push back a bit on the relevance of those. Some obviously were smaller (eg waldensians, lollards) but there was entire crusade to wipe out catharism in France, which included multiple kings and 20 years of nonstop warfare.

We know exactly why he does what he does. It’s in a POV chapter

It's definitely not peace time, RR and Blackwoods are still holding out. Stannis holds DS and SE. Stoneheart and the rest of the Brave Companions are wreaking havoc in the RL. The IB are raiding the entirety of the coastal Reach. Jaime does what can to restore rule of law and leaves behind the holy hundred to help, but even he doubts if it's enough. Your statement just felt a bit contradictory, starting out with its peacetime and then saying he never punished someone for a war crime, which he actually did on multiple occasions, the Lannister soldier who raped Pia and the Lannister deserter, among others, who occupied the ruins of the Wode's tower houses.

As windy as he was vast, he began by asking Winterfell to confirm the new customsofficers he had appointed for White Harbor. The old ones had been holding back silver for King's Landing rather than paying it over to the new King in the North. "King Robb needs his own coinage as well," he declared, "and White Harbor is the very place to mint it." He offered to take charge of the matter Grant me the gold and within the year I will float you sufficient galleys to take Dragonstone and King's Landing both." It’s pretty certain where he got the money

We have no idea if the Umbers or Rodrik were complicit at all. Rodrik dies before we hear of anything else and there is absolutely no mention of Umber help / lumber or even Umber refugees anywhere around WH or Manderly lands, which are already flush with more than enough timber, sailors, and shipwrights to build the galleys we "see" and are told about. Ockham's razor should be telling us Manderly built the fleet of his own volition -- possibly with the tax revenues the customs agents were withholding from King Robb -- in response to the catastrophe at WF and Blackwater.

Uh .... he hangs a Lannister soldier for doing exactly that: One of the Mountain's men had tried to rape the girl at Harrenhal, and had seemed honestly perplexed when Jaime commanded Ilyn Payne to take his head off. "I had her before, a hunnerd times," he kept saying as they forced him to his knees. "A hunnerd times, m'lord. We all had her." When Ser Ilyn presented Pia with his head, she had smiled through her ruined teeth.

He orders the the Umbers to build longships with Manderly's help. Whether or not that happens we do not know. Longships would really only be useful against wildling raiders and *maybe* smaller pirates. We know they do not stand up to larger galleys -- iron fleet excepted -- and cannot ferry a large group around thanks to Jason Mallister. Her son turned to Lord Jason Mallister. "You have a fleet at Seagard?" "A fleet, Your Grace? Half a dozen longships and two war galleys. Enough to defend my own shores against raiders, but I could not hope to meet the Iron Fleet in battle." We do know that Manderly has been building war galleys for about a year, which is about the time that Rodrik was killed, while the Umbers split their forces between Bolton and Stannis. I doubt Robb ever even heard about the fleet proposal given how hard it was to reach him in the field, the events that followed the harvest feast, and his untimely death. More likely Manderly started preparing for the fleet when he heard about Blackwater, Bran and Rickon's deaths, et al, either to take advantage of the power vacuum -- to preserve stark power or increase his own -- or make sure Robb wouldn't be at a disadvantage against the royal fleet. It's still a gray area as what Manderly intends to do with Rickon and this new fleet, but it's pretty apparent he started working on his own without receiving assent from Rodrik or Robb. PDF Timeline for reference https://mega.nz/file/tpgxUATJ#F6Q13AE1eAyaM5XMNkLSvzvkN20N77DNzdukLSm9qYw

Man not to wade into a real life mess but that's a pretty inaccurate picture of what happened. To say nothing of the ongoing conflicts between the major sects of Islam -- these existed because Mohammed's family literally went to war over who would lead and how to lead islam -- the treatment of Christians by Muslims in the Middle East wasn't great. Obviously nor was the treatment of Jews by Christians , all of this obviously pre-crusades. Massacres of christian pilgrims in Asia Minor and Syria / Palestine were pretty common. One of the first emirs of Egypt, al Hakim, destroyed all the churches and synagogues under his rule and killed a lot of jews and christians (and allied turks in his government) in a manner very similar to what the first bands of crusaders did in Germany and France en route to the Holy land. Lot of shitty stuff going on in the the religious world at the time.

The issue really being there's nothing to subvert. There need be no pretext in private meetings and the Manderlys and Umbers are trying to solve for different problems. Manderly wants to build an offensive force -- war galleys -- to end the war in Robb's favor. “Lord Manderly also proposed to build Robb a warfleet. “We have had no strength at sea for hundreds of years, since Brandon the Burner put the torch to his father’s ships. Grant me the gold and within the year I will float you sufficient galleys to take Dragonstone and King’s Landing both.” The Umbers want to build a patrolling force -- longships -- to prevent wildings on ersatz drift boat rafts from sailing around the wall. “Hother wanted ships. “There’s wildlings stealing down from the north, more than I’ve ever seen before. They cross the Bay of Seals in little boats and wash up on our shores. The crows in Eastwatch are too few to stop them, and they go to ground quick as weasels. It’s longships we need, aye, and strong men to sail them.” Umbers being loud and blustery for no real reason isn't exactly new as we see Greatjon do it to Robb on the march south. Robb set his wolf on him and set him straight. Rodrik, Robb's representative in the north, tells More to STFU and go build ships. Pretty straightforward in light of a vassal's obligations and feudal governance.

" " I've included every single excerpt from the series that would support or demonstrate that claim.

Their mission was already in danger. Ramsay* has pledged to march onto Castle Black and demands things that he suspects Jon has but doesn't (Reek, Arya, Craster's son, and possible Val). He is going to attack the NW if he does not get them. Regardless of what one thinks of releasing Mance with his six spearwives, the watch definitely now faces an existential threat and the worst way possible to prep for it is to cause more disunity among the ranks. Bowen is not especially smart -- one could easily argue he's fairly stupid and vindictive though not entirely wrong in this case -- and him choosing the worst way to remove a LC and pick the worst time is not surprising. * or the author of the pink letter