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El-Daddy

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  1. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    I use GenoPro - website here. I don't think it's the most recent edition though.
  2. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Hi Ambrose. Yeah so I agree with @Paxter Redwyne - new almost always supersedes old. Particularly when the newer source has so much more detail, such as with the order of Jaehaerys' children in F&B compared to TWOIAF. Exceptions would be when there are repeatedly things that are unclear.. like with the Estermonts, as their family tree seems to change in every appendix. For instance, with TWOIAF, there is a Raymont Baratheon who is mentioned as being a Kingsguard and son of "Lord Baratheon".. but we don't know which. He isn't mentioned at all in F&B, which has lead some to believe he has been removed from the canon.. but he still exists as far as I am concerned, until told otherwise.
  3. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    I'd say that must be right. He is the maternal uncle. I'll have to change the tree.
  4. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Woops. I meant to say Rymond and Darnold
  5. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    @Lord Varys I'll see if the software I have allows for "?" to be put in on some of the lines. It would make some things neater and more clear, but also could allow some more people to be added, tentatively..
  6. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Thanks @Ran very helpful. I understand that there is very little you can tell us, because of your previous agreements. However these are more clarifications, than looking for more info, so to speak. Of course if you cannot comment either way, that is understood. - Are the Durrandons a direct father-son relationship between Arrec - Arlan V - Argilac ? - Is Jeyne Arryn a grandchild of Rodrik? We know that Rhaenyra and her are described as "cousins", so Jeyne being the daughter of Rodrik's son would make them first cousins. - Are Rymond and Darnold sons of Hubert? - Is Davos Baratheon the father of Rogar? - Does Raymont Baratheon exist anymore? Answer gotten! Thanks. - Is Ormund Baratheon a son of Lyonel (the Laughing Storm)? - Is Yorbert Royce the father of Jeyne? Jeyne is Lady of Runestone in 103, and Yorbert is Lord in 101. Jeyne was succeeded by her nephew. Willum, the last known wielder of Lamentation, died during the Dance. - Are Bryndon and Hobert Hightower first cousins of Lord Ormund Hightower? - How is Donnel the Delayer related to Martyn and/or Ormund? Confirmation on any of the above would be great.
  7. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Let me know if you see Ran's comment about the High Septon being a maternal aunt. The linked comment you sent only says whose brother Morgan Is, not that the High Septon isn't a Hightower.
  8. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Do you have a quote / link?
  9. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Sorry to go back to a previous comment, but one more point to add. Jeyne Arryn being the daughter of Rodrik's elder son can also be supported by the fact that, if this was the case, it would make Rhaenyra Targaryen a (half) first cousin of Jeyne Arryn, as they would both share a grandfather of Rodrik Arryn, since Rodrik was father of Rhaenyra's mother Aemma. In AWOIAF, Rhaenyra is mentioned as being supported by her "cousin" Lady Jeyne, which is a fact that is much more likely to be mentioned if they are cousins to the first degree. This adds to us being more confident that Jeyne's father was Rodrik's elder son.
  10. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    In my head I am assuming that Davos is the eldest son and heir, but I still can't include it in the tree, however likely it is, it is not confirmed. It's almost certain, but I still can't put it in. I had always considered that Raymont is probably a son of Orys too, and he isn't on the tree. For the same reason, Addam is almost certainly the father of Manfred (II) Hightower, and the relationship between the Durrandons is a direct son-father-grandfather when it goes from Argilac - Arlan V - Arrec. We know that Argilac's grandfather was Arrec, and that Argilac's successor and eldest son was Arlan V.. but not that Arlan was the father of Argilac. Yes, the main version of the tree has notes accompanying it, that clarify what the legal status of these controversial / ambiguous parentage cases is. The tree isn't meant to be looked at in a vacuum, especially not the one posted above - posting this was done more in a way to try to see who I had forgotten. Crap, you're right. It was Munkun and Eustace who said it. Better than Mushroom.. but not exactly confirmation either. I'll take her out. I got it. "A visit from the Dowager Queen and Vhagar had persuaded her [Alyssa] to leave her sanctuary on Driftmark and return to court, where Alyssa and her brothers and cousins of House Velaryon did homage to Maegor as the true king." So she has at least two brothers (Daemon, and whoever the father of Lianna is). However on the description of "cousins", we don't know if they are first cousins or second cousins. etc. so cannot be included. I agree about Larissa. I'm still not going to include her though - it's too hard to confirm. I will put in Gaemon's younger daughter though, as thinking about it, Gaemon was well known even casually of being the most "Glorious" of the Dragonstone lords, so people would have known if the claimant had simply invented a daughter in his fabrication of some form of connection. If Hubert was of an age with Aegon when he inherited, having Rodrik's father and uncle being sons of Hubert would fit in perfectly. However, if the split occurred between Hubert's sons and not earlier, Joffrey would be a third cousin and not a fourth cousin. Similarly, Isembard is specifically mentioned as being from a "still more distant branch of that great house". That implies that Joffrey's branch and Isembard's branch didn't split off at the same point, as otherwise they would both be equidistant to Jeyne. And one last thing about the Arryns - Arnold is mentioned as being "first cousin" of Jeyne, and Joffrey is a "fourth cousin by degree". I take it we can assume they are not "fourth cousins twice removed" or anything like that..
  11. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Thanks for your comments! The tree (and older, larger ones I have made), are not really meant to be taken "in-universe", so to speak. I do my best to be as objective as I can, but in some instances I take some small liberties. In the main series, are Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen the children of Cersei and Robert? Of course not. But they are still known as "Baratheon", even if they are actually bastards. For this reason I have Jacerys, Lucerys and Joffrey down as being the children of Breakbones, but also with the Velaryon surname. The implication of the parentage to the reader is made obvious, as is the case with Addam and Alyn. In other cases where it is not made obvious (the Dragonknight being the father of Daeron and Daenerys), I kept it as the "official line", as there is no clear implication or narrative made. I mention Larissa in the notes. She is indeed mentioned as a "cousin" of Rhaena Targaryen, but unfortunately no explicit relationship can be confirmed. We don't know if she is a first cousin, or second cousin. With Liana Velaryon, we have confirmation that she is both cousin to Rhaena, and niece to Daemon, so she must be a first cousin, and is included Rodrik Arryn's father and uncle is one that I forgot, and they can be added. I edited the earlier post while you were typing your message! Great spot nonetheless. Would you be able to point out to me please where the brothers / cousins of Alyssa are confirmed? Just looking for a quote or context. Or even the basic gist of where it was in the book. I'd gladly add them in after I find it. I didn't include this "younger daughter" of Gaemon, as it is mentioned in the text purely in the context of someone trying to prove / falsify a relationship between themselves and Gaemon - we don't have proof anywhere else of this daughter even existing, and it would have been beneficial for the claimer to invent her. The same story goes with the man purporting to be the bastard son of Maegor. This is not the case with Saera's sons however. I agree that Daemon (I) and Valaena are very very likely to be siblings, but unfortunately it hasn't been confirmed. As well as that, Aethan and Daemon are mentioned a few times as being great early allies and supporters of Aegon, but not once mentioned as uncle or cousin. Still though, they probably are siblings. As above. The original tree as notes listing explicitly which "controversial" offspring are assigned to whom. There isn't that many cases tbh. Those points about Jeyne are very good, thank you. Given the line of succession and short time-frame, there is really no other likely plausible scenario that I can think of - Jeyne is almost certainly the daughter of the eldest son of Rodrik (who also had sons older than Jeyne), and Arnold must be the son of Rodrik's younger son, given that he is explicitly mentioned as being Jeyne's first cousin. The only other situation I can think of is if Rodrik, and both his sons died (as well as Elys and Amanda and their children..), and Jeyne is the daughter or a different branch of the Arryns, which is a bit unlikely. Speaking of the Vale, Rhea Royce is also almost certainly the daughter of Yorbert Royce, who was Jeyne Arryn's representative in the Great Council of 101 AC, but that has not been confirmed either. Rhea was ruler of Runestone by 103 AC, and Yorbert was ruler at 101 AC, so he must have died in between, and she inherited. While we're on the topic, the three claimants after Jeyne's death are mentioned as being a first cousin, fourth cousin, and "still more distant" cousin, which is where Isembard and the Gulltown Arryns come from. His branch is described as splitting off in the reign of King Jaehaerys.. but that actually wasn't that long ago, and definitely not long enough to be "still more distant" than 4+ generations ago, considering Jeyne ruled during the last years of Jaehaerys' reign. You're right, if I include Garmund's children, then I should include the others who were not yet born. Sure I'll delete Rhaena and Garmund's marriage (and children) anyway as it hasn't happened yet.
  12. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Link here if above image not working. This is my (preliminary!) family tree of all known related characters in the timeframe of Fire & Blood: Vol 1. I previously had (most) of this tree as part of my overall ASOIAF tree, but all of the additions from F&B are from pre: Daeron I, so I am posting a truncated version instead, which leaves out any later characters, as I have no updates for them. The following in the spoiler is a list of all of the new connections that I have been able to find, in the text of Fire & Blood. This is compared to previously known information, from either the main series, the novellas, A World of Ice and Fire, or GRRM readings. As always, this is open to correction, so if you see any errors or omissions, please feel free to let me know. I'd be happy to fix any mistakes so I can get this thing as correct as possible. As said, the above list of all new connected characters I could find in F&B. Not much info on the Arryns unfortunately, and we are just missing a small amount of be able to link of the Hightowers properly. Edit - just have seen the info about Rodrik Arryn! His uncle and father are mentioned.
  13. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Yes, that's what I was referring to Just seeing if we were both talking about the same thing. I'm almost finished my family tree for the Fire & Blood time period. I'll add it soon enough.
  14. El-Daddy

    [SPOILERS] Family trees and successions

    Sorry, just for clarity, what gives you the impression that all four of his brothers had young children? There is the direct quote "Three of his brothers had young children".. and then, are you adding in Orryn's daughter as well as that?
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