Petyr Patter

This episode was one of the most entertaining in the show's history. For starters, it was an episode of people doing things. The corollary to 'show, don't tell' is 'act, don't talk.' I really did get a feel for the siege, and the strategies both sides were using. Scythe versus scalers. Giants versus Iron Gate. Direwolf versus throat. Yet, when the episode ended, what had actually changed? At the beginning, the wildlings were about to over run the Wall and the Night's Watch has a leadership crisis. At the end... the wildlings are about to over run the Wall and the Night's Watch has a leadership crisis. I was so close to giving this a 10, but the episode lacked a resolution. 9/10

Unfortunately, I had to watch this episode while trying to do a second task simultaneously. Yet, preliminary I am going to say 7 out of 10. I really dug the fight scene choreography, so that is really what "saved" this episode. I also really liked Roose's scene with Ramsay, when he talks about the North and how they now, effectively rule it. Other scenes just felt average, but then there were some choices that I just felt were stinkers. Having Tyrion talk about why a mentally handicap cousin would spend his days squishing bugs was awful. It felt like an attempt at profoundness of the unknowablity of other people, but went on to long, lacked any revelation, and took away the book scene of Oberyn and Tyrion discussing what to do after the Trial. I also didn't like the changes to the Vale. Killing Lysa without a patsy was a much, much riskier move for Baelish, especially when he didn't need to kill her right then and there. And this episode comes around and it looks like Baelish is lost... till Sansa swoops in and saves him with an string of lies mixed with some truths. Later, we discover Sansa did so completely on her own initiative. This is deeply troubling, because Baelish is in many ways her captor. He certainly made sure she took some of the blame of regicide. He is also a very dangerous person who betrayed her father. The show somehow wants us to believe Sansa thinks she can "play" Baelish, because he "wants" her. In the books, she needs to keep her identity secret for fear of reprisals from the Iron Throne. Once the secret is out... what good siding with Baelish? The man is dangerous. She has witnessed him kill at least two people in front of her, and knows he killed Joffrey despite the fact Joffrey was an ally who rewarded him well for service.

I almost swore I was going to stop watching the show during the tail end of this episode. Depictions of rape make me ill. And I will give the show some credit, by turning Jaime and Cersei's encounter in the sept into an unambiguous rape scene, I now think all bets are off when it comes to show versus book. When Karl entered the hutch, I was in fear I was about to bear witness to another rape scene. I literally put the DVR on pause and got up to do some things around the house before sitting back down and grinding it out. I found what happened next well rewarding. Bad guys die, Bran takes action, and the blood on Hodor's hands is excellent "show, not tell" for the loss of innocence or something. Beyond that, I think the episode was Sophie Turner's best performance to date. She does tears very well. The transition she goes through from thinking she's found family and safety, to realizing her aunt loves/fears/hates her, an innocent man is going to die (Tyrion), and she is being forced into another marriage was a great scene. Of course, Lysa Arryn does even more to sell that scene, I am very glad they got the same actress back. Altogether, the Vale was great, including the visual depiction of the Bloody Gate. This makes no sense with the geography of Westeros, but still looked cool. However, on the other side of the world, Emilia Clarke gave her worst performance to date. I honestly think she was on drugs when her scenes were filmed. The close ups on her face showed bored bemusement. She just found out her work in ending slavery in two cities has been reversed. How does she respond when alone with her oldest and most trusted councilor? Annoyance. "Things aren't going to plan? What a bother, I guess I must be a queen and rule here." Contrast her to Lena Headley, who gave some very interesting scenes. Cersei appears to be acting the grown up. She makes her peace with Margaery, and spends time bonding with Oberyn over the one thing they have in common, daughters. She also appears to stop fighting her marriage to Loras. I am sure on one level it is an act. On the otherhand, Cersei thinks she can better secure her objectives by working with people than against them. Finally, I loved Tommen's coronation scene. I half expected a Tommen to just keel over and die the moment the Septon said "long may he reign." However, it had all the pomp and circumstance a coronation should have. The hall was packed full. Everyone was wearing their best clothes. The King's Guard stood in attendance with their fancy armor. Two lines of ceremonial goldcloaks. Tommen looking scared that he might screw up having a crown put on his head. 9/10

I've been to my share of wedding. I've never drunk out of somebody else's glass. In the book, Mace Tyrell gifts the wedding couple a huge and ornate goblet. Hence, the married couple took turns drinking out of it. For the show, they each had their own cups and there was no reason to believe they would be sharing. I'm sure Olenna was keeping a close eye on the goblet to make sure no "accidents" occurred once she slipped in the poison.

This is an argument disproved with one name: Barristan. The fact that the famous for his honor and nobility Barristan Selmy didn't go running off to serve Viserys means the KG are human and fallible. Their presence at the Tower isn't them doing their duty, it was them failing their duty. Probably under orders from Rhaeghar, but the king, the crown prince, the king's grandson, and grand daughter all died when the guarded the prince's mistress. Considering the weakness of communications, they probably thought it likely Viserys was dead or captured as well. When Eddard showed up with a small force, they almost asked to be killed in combat, an "honorable death."

How do Jon and Danaerys "wedding" pictures relate to R+L=J? The theory if true means they are biologically aunt and nephew. Incest might be a "Targaryen" thing, but Jon was raised as a Stark and would never consent.

Yeah, I have no doubt Slynt bragged about his role in capturing the "traitor" Ned Stark. Just like he brags about his time as Commander of the Gold Cloaks and the fact he was Lord of Harrenhall, though he never stepped foot in it. Really, Janos Slynt is probably not that bright, which made him useful to Littlefinger. Why does the corruption in King's Landing always seem to go back to Littlefinger?

He might just have enough foresight to realize his role in Eddard's death would forever be a wedge between the two of them.

Well, AryaSansa did say the BEST parts were the realistic ones. Which, is an opinion I can appreciate.

So, I just rewatched this episode. In another post I called it the "DARKEST" episode of Game of Thrones to date: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/107940-book-spoilers-ep403-discussion/page-36#entry5683224 . Now, having watched this episode twice, I don't think I will ever watch it again. The only other episode I feel that way about is the Rains of Castamere, and even then just the Red Wedding itself. This episode is just unpleasant from start to finish. Even the scene I did find pleasant, Davos dealing with Shireen's bossy questions, was literally dark. We get it, Dragonstone is a creepy place. Still, how about a conversation in the sun once in a while? You are Baratheons, not vampires. Which is not to say the episode was bad, but I feel like it was bad. While sometimes the unpleasantness showcased a coming threat, such as the wildlings, or sometimes unpleasantness is what the hero must endure to triumph. Here, it mostly was just showing a crappy world that no one was trying to make better. This is not why I watch television. And the rape was just ten times more sickening the second time around. 5/10

Thing is, though, we have been conditioned to see the Slave Masters as irredeemably evil. Like orcs or Nazis or reavers. You can never feel bad about killing them. The show has skipped over any sort of ambiguity, though this is at least sourced in the books where she doesn't have to actually deal with the fallout of her actions until Meereen. Thank you. I'm sure you'll figure out the new quote function soon enough. :) I agree that "pretty much everyone" would treat Sansa better. However, "pretty much" leaves room for a few rare specimens. Obviously the Mountain would rape, beat, and eventually kill her. The same might be said of Joffrey, but he was kept in check by Tywin and Tyrion. Littlefinger is also one of the people who Sansa is in worse hands with. Remember, this is the guy who told Ros to stop crying after seeing a baby murdered in the brothel by threatening to kill her as a "bad investment." He might be subtler and smiles, but he will take what he wants from Sansa, and there is no one to stop him.

I think this was the DARKEST episode in Game of Thrones so far. There might have been sadder episodes, or more tragic episodes, or even episodes more emotionally traumatizing. Yet, nearly every scene in this episode was showing a world of cruelty, poverty, and abuse of the weak. Sansa escapes the frying pan of King's Landing and falls into the fire. Littlefinger's evil would make Tywin want to have a bath. And he now has Sansa. The poor girl can't have anything nice, not even for an episode. Sam takes Gilly to live and work (on her feet) in a whore house. I question the wisdom of this move, but watching her care for her son on the dirt floor with rags is a sad image on its own. Is this what he "saved" her for? Tyrion sits in jail with his last friend in the world smuggling him food. The scene ends with Tyrion ordering Podrick to flee King's Landing, and he is now a man alone in the world. His family is moving to convict him. His wife is fled. He sent his lover away and she probably hates him now. The Hound finds a godly man who gives him food and shelter for a night. The man offers the Hound fair wages for fair work, in other words an opportunity to help rebuild the world he helped destroy as a Lannister lackey. The Hound repays the kindness by robbing the man of his silver and claims they'll be dead by winter. He then throws the deaths of Eddard, Robb, and perhaps Rickard as well into her face as evidence that his way is the right way. Cersei, convinced Tyrion is responsible for Joffrey's death, asks Jaime to murder their brother before a trial. That is pretty grim. Jaime's response is to rape Cersei... in Baelor's sept... next to the Joffrey's corpse. The fact that this isn't the most disturbing scene of the episode (though perhaps it is the most shocking considering how out of character it is for Jaime) is testement to either Martin's or somebody at HBO's need for a Valium prescription. And then we have the wildlings attack a peaceful village and massacre its inhabitants. Because death isn't dark enough, Styr holds a blade to a child's throat, informs the boy that he has just killed his parents and will proceed to eat them. It is a tactic to lure the Night's Watch out of Castle Black, but was still disturbing to watch. The episode ends on what I think was suppose to be a hopeful and uplifting moment, but frankly its the third time we've seen Danaerys playing savior, the first being Aastapor and the second being the season three finale. It is getting old and doesn't change anything. Essos remains a world away from Westeros, and the problems with Westeros have nothing to do with slavery. It has to do with how war breaks down the cultural and social forces that keep people safe and prosperous. And should she ever invade Westeros, it would be as another conqueror destabilizing whatever peace Tywin Lannister can salvage.

What made that scene even better is knowing Joffrey is insulting his father, who just gave up Casterly Rock to "protect him." Also, Jack Gleeson was on his A-game and turned in such a wonderful despicable performance.

He is going to have captured thralls use it, with the belief the dragons would still answer to him due to some blood ritual. Scary thing is, I think it is going to work.

I don't think he'd turn on Barristan, no. Barristan is widely considered one of the Danaery's most important councilors, whom the Unsullied listen to. If the Shavepate really was behind the poisoning, and successfully fooled Barristan into usurping Hizzdar, then why make an enemy when you have a foolish friend? Especially with the situation so precarious. I'll assume the Shavepate knows Volantes is considering going to war, which means winning this battle means nothing if it costs him the best line infantry in the world making the city that much easier for Volantis to overwhelm. However, there are several, smaller actions he can take to secure his power that won't necessarily pit him against the Unsullied and Baristan. Killing King Hizzdar. Taking Danaery's cup bearers into his own custody to use them more aggressively as hostages. Attacking the pyramids of the other great families. Seizing grain stores... with which he could control the city.