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MaesterSam

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  1. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    He and Dany may not be enemies right away. We know from Tyrion and JonCon POVs that the plan/goal is for Aegon to marry Daenerys and rule together - not to fight her because he has the better claim. There will be no hostility coming from his end. And thus Dany will (at least initially) have no reason to fight him. She might even be happy to have a living relative who wants to be her friend - and her husband, which may not be all bad, as apparently he is quite attractive. She may offer to let him ride a dragon, as she did with Jon in the show. In fact, she may ask him to prove himself by riding one. And once he has, that dragon is bonded to him and he can use it as he sees fit. We saw this in the original Dance of the Dragons, when random dragonseeds were allowed a dragon and some turned their cloaks and fought against the actual Targaryens.
  2. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    I don't think this is tinfoil at all; I think it's quite likely. Varys figured it out and told Aerys, which is why the king attended the tourney when he hadn't left the Red Keep in years. This foiled Rhaegar's plan, though he may have attempted some communication with the various lords in secret (we know from the Reeds that Ashara may have been the go-between for the conspirators, as she danced with men from many great houses in turn). Barristan chapters also suggest there was something going on at the tourney involving Rhaegar, but that Rhaegar didn't trust him the way he did Arthur Dayne and Gerold Hightower so he never knew what it was. The failed attempt at a Great Council may explain why Rhaegar left Dragonstone so soon after returning, despite it being winter, and also why he "couldn't be found" by Aerys. He was secretly treating with each great house in turn, securing allies one by one. He would have gone to Dorne, and possibly Casterly Rock. The Reach fought for him at the Trident, so he may have also visited Highgarden, and probably intended to visit the other Houses as well. Then everything went awry when Lyanna disappeared and someone started the rumor that he had abducted her. We know what happens from there.
  3. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    Exactly. He was right to be paranoid, as Tywin and Rhaegar (whether together or individually) were plotting to depose him. Tywin almost succeeded at Duskendale, then Rhaegar tried to do it via the Harrenhal tourney and presumably a Great Council to agree Rhaegar should be king; lastly, Tywin succeeded on his second try and Aerys was betrayed and killed. If Varys was conveying even a fraction of all this to Aerys, Aerys would have to be insane to not be paranoid and afraid. He probably did have some personality quirks/flaws, which made it easier for Pycelle (the Lannister-loyal maester who sent all the info on happenings in KL to the Citadel, there to be recorded as history) to build the narrative of the Mad King. Not getting a haircut for years is a bit extreme (though less so if he was dreaming of daggers in the dark, and he was right in the end to fear blades). The slow roasting of living men was also not ok. But other men have done things just as bad (Ramsay, Gregor Clegane) and are not called "mad". That's an amusing thought. Another possibility is that Rhaegar wanted to overthrow Aerys peacefully. He didn't want a rebellion or a war: he wanted to hold a Great Council and essentially get the lords' blessing to take over the kingship. It had a high likelihood of working: we know from the various POVs that Rhaegar was very well liked by virtually everybody, and many people thought he would make a great king and certainly a better king than Aerys. This would be a way to end the reign of the mad king without bloodshed; even Aerys could stay alive and maybe live out his days on Dragonstone. Too bad it didn't work out.
  4. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    I agree, there may well have been an agreement between Rhaegar and Tywin, which is why Rhaegar felt overconfident going into the war and didn't take precautions to protect his wife and children. Tywin may have even planned to honor it, but after Rhaegar died he decided to side with the winners. I guess there's not much use for a fleet if the other side doesn't have one... but then again, Euron manages to sack castles using just his fleet, so I suppose the real value of the fleet is in the fighting men it carries. Unfortunately we have no idea how many men were on those ships, so it's hard to say if they would have made a difference. Especially since Aerys opened his gates and didn't even put up a fight when the enemy came in. He actually may have wanted the city to burn - providing the sacrifice to wake the dragon- and the sack was a great excuse. After all, he had the wildfire in place well beforehand, so he had clearly planned for this to happen. It's interesting, we look at the motivations of so many characters for the events that happened, but not usually Aerys. He is dismissed as "mad". But maybe he was more of a player than we realize? His plan (while obviously incredibly callous) wasn't half bad - wait for the enemy to be within the city, then burn his entire army. He couldn't have known that Tywin would be the enemy. If he had stayed out of it and the invading army had been Robert's, Aerys could have taken them out as a threat almost instantaneously. As a bonus, this giant funeral pyre may well have hatched some eggs. Which Aerys could then have taken with him to Dragonstone, there to grow up and restore the Targaryens to their full power...
  5. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    This is an interesting point. Why was the Targaryen fleet at Dragonstone and not in KL with the KING who was about to be attacked? Surely paranoid Aerys would have wanted all possible reinforcements to protect the capital with him in it. Unlike the Redwyne fleet, the Targaryen fleet wasn't even participating in a siege. They should have been at KL. Was this the result of another of Rhaegar's mysterious commands, like placing the KG in Dorne? You would think with his wife and children in KL, he would want to keep it safe.
  6. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    I wasn't implying that Tyrion would want to do this. He would obviously have to be forced into it, which I'm sure Euron could manage. As for him not capering for Dany, the definition of capering is "to leap or prance about in a playful manner." Tyrion rode a pig and pretended to be a knight, fighting Penny on a dog in order to make people laugh. He not only did this for Dany, but many times while still on the ship. He is clearly willing to caper if the alternative is death.
  7. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    You think Dany and Jon are going to caper at Euron's feet for his amusement? That seems unlikely to me. I also don't know why any of these 4 extremely attractive and overall very likable characters would be portrayed as dwarves, "naked and misshapen". It seems like a stretch, when we already have 2 actual dwarves, male and female, one who has been capering all her life and another who has learned recently, and already capered for Daenerys once. He is not too proud to caper if that's what it takes to stay alive. He spent ADWD learning how to be a dwarf and how to caper. There is also a plausible way for these dwarves to end up in Euron's hands in the near future, with Victarion now arrived in Slavers Bay. In addition, the dwarves in the HOTU are said to be very unusual, as Dany notices right away. They are smaller than normal, with pointy rat faces. Aeron makes no note of the dwarves being unusual in any way. Also, Moqorro sees Tyrion himself "in the midst of all". But, as always, we'll have to wait and hope one day we get another book. I certainly don't claim to "know", I just don't see any reason for the dwarves to be metaphorical when we have two such exact dwarves in the story. She has the Lannister army. That's better than nothing. And Euron won't have that many choices. If Dany rejects him, who else is left for him to make his worthy heir that he wants?
  8. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    So in other words ... there was a massive offering to the Drowned God on the night Daenerys was born? Interesting. We already know the Storm God was present as well, hence her name, Stormborn. Maybe we should start including the ironborn in our X + Y = ? theories.
  9. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    Not to disagree with this - far from it - but if that is the case, then we already know that the Wall doesn't stop the Others.
  10. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    You're right - that's where the focus is, and I fully agree that the Greyjoys are somehow related/important to what is happening in the North. Their religion literally worships a dead deity, and their "baptism" ritual symbolizes death and resurrection as a "harder and stronger" being that can not die again. What's strange is that some of Mel's visions are of the very near future/almost the present (finding the dead rangers, the grey girl on a dying horse), while others must be of the more distant future as Euron does not yet have a dragon or any dwarves to caper for him. It is also notable that Dany at one point has a dream (shortly before marrying Hizdahr, I believe) where they are hooking up and Hizdahr's lips are blue and his cock is cold as ice. I had previously taken this as foreshadowing of Dany marrying Euron ("one to dread"), but the show has him with Cersei which does fit better. (I can't see Dany choosing to join someone that evil, even if she gets a little carried away with her House words). So now I don't know what to make of it, but it fits with the idea that the rise of Euron is being noticed by all magic users who access prophetic visions. The other individual popping up in everyone's visions appears to be Tyrion, which IMO has not received the attention it deserves. So let's take a look: Dwarves appear in both of Aeron's nightmares/visions, first just capering but then in the second vision they are having sex while Euron and (presumably) Cersei watch and laugh. This looks to me like a plausible future scenario, whereby Euron gives Tyrion to Cersei (as opposed to the Sand Snakes in the show) to win her alliance, and Cersei then takes her revenge starting with his complete humiliation. The other dwarf is most likely Penny. In Mel's vision, it is not specified that the lovers are dwarves, but there are clear similarities in the descriptions and setting (dragons overhead). Let's compare: So here we have the framing of first skulls, then either fucking bodies or capering dwarves, followed by dragons. All in the context of Euron and his bloody tide conquering and killing. Aeron's second vision explains the capering in more detail: The wording here is clearly very similar... bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other ... and with both descriptions occurring between a vision of skulls and a vision of dragons, I am going to assume Mel also saw these dwarves having sex. Tyrion and Penny. Why is this important?? Why is it popping up in both of their visions? And not just theirs: Moqorro also sees a dwarf and dragons. In a later Victarion chapter, he tells him he saw Euron as well (sailing on a sea of blood). So we have a similar combination of events. Moqorro tells Tyrion he will be "snarling in the midst of all". Interesting. What does he mean? It certainly doesn't sound like Tyrion will be enjoying himself, does it? Together, these 4 visions by three independent observers who are literally as far apart as one can get in this world (the Wall, the Arbor and east of Valyria almost to Meereen) predict a grim future for Tyrion.
  11. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    This is certainly a valid interpretation, and may very well be true. But we do also have this passage from TWOIAF: So the ironborn are also associated with appearing out of mists. That being said, later in that same vision she clearly sees Hardhome, so you may have the right of it on this one. ETA: I found another link between Euron and mists. During ADWD, he captured the Shield Islands, where he killed many people. Now look at this from TWOIAF (Iron Islands chapter): So at the time of Mel's vision (approximately), Euron was killing many people (skulls) on the Shield Islands (mist).
  12. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    You're right, that part of the vision pertains to events at the Wall. But it still doesn't really fit with her request to see Stannis, or R'hllor's king/instrument, does it? She wants to see her king, and is shown these three eyeless dead guys. From there, she sees skulls, then the visions that I believe relate to Euron. So to repeat, she asks to see R'hllor's chosen, and he shows her 1) corpses, 2) skulls, and 3) Euron. If this is an answer to her request, then R'hllor is telling her that his chosen one is death - death and Euron. Euron, of course, is waiting for a new god to rise from the graves (death) and charnel pits (skulls). So it all kind of fits, and makes me excited for how scary he will end up being! Of course it's also possible that the flames simply don't show her what she asks for, and this is the root of the misunderstanding. Mel thinks the visions she receives are an answer to her questions, but what if they are not? They could be "random" events that she is tapping into, and misinterpreting in their meaning. This possibility is supported by the fact that Aeron saw some of the same things without asking for them. Maybe this is just what's being shown right now, to anyone who taps into the info network regardless of method or reason.
  13. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    I'm glad you brought this up, because on a recent reread I noticed that GRRM really emphasized how Dany had to pay a high price to get her dragons: Of course, a horse can't buy life for Drogo. Dany misunderstood at first, but she quickly learns. The price is too high, but it's not paid yet. There is one more price to pay: Dany kills Drogo and his funeral pyre is what wakes her dragons. It's not clear which of the deaths actually paid for the dragons' life ( Dany's sword), but there was certainly lots of blood sacrifice involved. A high price was paid. Now here is Selyse in ASOS: If we accept the dragons as a flaming sword, then Dany fits the prophecy 100%. The others really don't come close. Jon was not born amidst salt and smoke - he was born in a tower in the dry mountains of Dorne (and that's only if he is Rhaegar's son, but if he's not, then he is not of Aerys and Rhaella's line and has no link to fire at all, making him even less qualified). If Aegon is real and born on Dragonstone, he still missed the window of time while the star was bleeding to acquire a flaming sword. It was a short window, maybe a few weeks, at the very end of AGOT and first half of ACOK. Neither Jon nor Aegon did anything special during this time. The red star bleeding is directly linked with AA's rebirth and drawing his sword from the fire - and neither of these events, even metaphorically, happened to the other two potential Dragons in our story. Dany, on the other hand, literally woke dragons from stone the very night that the red comet appeared, after sacrificing her husband in a perfect AA parallel. To be honest, I never liked the idea of the dragons being the flaming sword. I know it's been around for a while, and is supported by a direct quote from Xaro: Dany fits the AA prophecy so perfectly in every other way though, that I think I've managed to convince myself that if there is indeed an AA Reborn figure in this story, it simply has to be her. We'll know for sure if her supporters start coming back to life after being killed. Which is entirely possible, given that the Red Priests support her cause, and we know they can resurrect.
  14. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    ... or the show ending?
  15. MaesterSam

    Heresy 223 and where we go from here

    I'm pretty sure this vision has nothing to do with Jon or the Wall. Many of the images in this vision are related to events in the south, and I believe the towers are as well. Let's start with Mel's vision: A few things stand out here. Mel asks to see R'hllor's king, his instrument. While she thinks it's Stannis, the visions that immediately follow have nothing to do with Stannis and even less to do with Jon. The towers are specifically said to be by the sea, not just some body of water. This is relevant because the rest of the vision brings up some major Euron imagery. The dark tide rising up is reminiscent of Bran's dream when the sea came to Winterfell, as well as Moqorro's warning of Euron "sailing on a sea of blood". In another part of her POV chapter, Mel specifically refers to a bloody tide: Shadows in the shape of skulls: Aeron's vision included Euron on a pile of skulls before he transitioned to the IT. Bodies locked together in lust: dwarves capering for Euron's amusement. And of course, dragons. Here is the passage from The Forsaken: When he laughed his face sloughed off and the priest saw that it was not Urri but Euron, the smiling eye hidden. He showed the world his blood eye now, dark and terrible. Clad head to heel in scale as dark as onyx, he sat upon a mound of blackened skulls as dwarfs capered round his feet and a forest burned behind him. “The bleeding star bespoke the end,” he said to Aeron. “These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits.” Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. “Kneel, brother,” the Crow’s Eye commanded. “I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest.” Here is Aeron's second vision: The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman’s form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed … It seems pretty clear to me that Aeron and Mel are having some overlapping visions. Both feature a red/bloody sea, lots of skulls, "bodies locked together in lust", and dragons. I think we have discussed before that some big events will show up in everyone's visions around the time they occur, such as the red wedding being shown to Dany in Qarth but also the GOHH in the Riverlands. Apparently, Euron taking power, forcing Tyrion & Penny into sex slavery (I imagine this is how he gets Cersei to be his mate), and successfully using the hellhorn to get dragons are going to leave major ripples in the vision-net of Planetos... But back to the towers by the sea. IMHO, we should be looking at castles/cities that are on the Southeastern coast of Westeros, since that's where Euron is, and whose fall would have some meaning to the story. There is really only one that fits and is specifically said to have towers: The castle Three Towers is located at the entrance to the Whispering Sound which leads to Oldtown, at the northern end of the Redwyne Straits. It is the seat of House Costayne. We have had foreshadowing that Euron is planning a trap for his enemies, making them think they can trap him in the straits but then using the holy blood from his collection of priests to summon krakens. Hence the "sea of blood" that Mel, Aeron and Moqorro all saw will be literal, and located immediately in front of the Three Towers castle. What do you think?
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