Tywin Tytosson

11 hours ago, Astrotherapist said:

Exactly what I was getting at.  And what I meant is that IF this was so important (which it wasn't) and the North had always been agitating for independence then Ned would have negotiated it as soon as Robert's rebellion began, not after he was king.  

I thought that there really wasn't time to do any negotiating before the Rebellion.  Aerys demanded Jon Arryn either hand over Ned and Robert or kill them himself.  Jon refused, and the Rebellion began.

The North, or parts of the North, could have been agitating for independence.  If Ned didn't agree with that, then he would have have ignored said agitation.  The Starks had been trying a 'Southern Strategy' at the time, no?  So the Starks may have wanted to keep the North in the Realm.

5 hours ago, valgrel said:

5 hours ago, Astrotherapist said:

When will Bran die? What's the longevity of a 3ER?  The last one was thousands of years old (in the show), a fact which must be wound up with the function of the 3ER itself.   

Then there's Sansa's questionable rationale for secession: "But tens of thousands of Northmen fell in the Great War defending all of Westeros. And those who survived have seen too much and fought too hard ever to kneel again."  But they most certainly would kneel to a Northerner now, to Brandon Stark, and no matter whether the relatively young Bran lives a full human life or for thousands of years, those Northmen that fought and sacrificed will have passed away and folks up there would just roll with the new norm as they did under Targaryen rule. 

If these are truly GRRM's final outcomes, they will have to (and likely will) be set up to make more sense than this.  

 

 

Didn't Fire and Blood disabuse us of he notion that the North just 'rolled with the new norm' after Torrhen bent the knee?  Thought there was talk of rebellion in the North.

I agree re. GRRM's final outcomes being setup to make more sense than the show.

5 hours ago, valgrel said:

I guess the previous 3ER lived long because he was half-tree/half-man. Bran isn't.

This.  I think the same applies to the greenseers of the CotF.

5 hours ago, valgrel said:

Sansa's justification for independance was weak indeed, she could just have said : Torrhen bent the knee 300 years ago because of dragons, last one is gone, so we go back to previous state.

Like Greatjon Umber declared, when he nominated Robb as King. 

What Sansa did was more politic.  By emphasizing what the North did for the rest of Westeros, she put her request/claim on the moral high ground.   Thus reducing opposition from the other Lords present.

On 5/21/2019 at 12:59 PM, Hodor's Dragon said:

And speaking of independence for the North? WHAT? Even though the other 6 kingdoms are going to be ruled by a Stark? And NOBODY has a problem with this? ?????

 

And Bronn on the council? Why the heck not just put a known criminal in charge of the realm's money? But then again, we do get to pretty much end the whole story with more brothel jokes. <sheesh>

 

I take it as everybody just wants peace.  The election was forced on them with no notice, so they chose.  The next election would be something completely different.  One hopes that Bran (or Tyrion) sets things up to keep things under control.  

Bronn on council was great!  He's not a criminal.  He was a sellsword who became a knight.  And had been Commander of KL's City Watch.   He has his own code, which he follows rather consistently.  By being Lord of Highgarden, Bronn is now in charge of and runs one of the wealthiest positions in the 6 Kingdoms.   Remember - the Tyrells were 2nd only to the Lannisters in wealth.  And the Lannister's gold mines have run dry.  What is interesting is that the Small Council has 2 people on it who started life as commoners - Bronn and Davos.

  Why do you think Bronn was a criminal?

Disclaimer - I like Bronn, and am happy that he finally got his castle.

12 hours ago, Dynas said:

Writing. 

GoT was more a historical drama in a make believe world than a Fantasy show IMO. 

Agree.  A historical drama with a bit of magic and/or fantasy tossed in at the edges.

12 hours ago, Dynas said:

When you have one of the best writers (IMO) in recent history for 5 seasons, then you have to go to D&D hollywood style writers with very little on their resume (other than GoT) it become very apparent that the writing is why is thrived.

To Clarify - are you referring to GRRM?  Or some other writer(s) on the GOT staff?

13 hours ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

Why is there a NW, really, and is Jon the commander or did he just pass through or what? He did change to black, so ... maybe in the watch but exploring north? But what's the night watch doing?

I took things that the NW is basically a penal colony now.  That and a place for those with limited options to find a place to belong.

8 minutes ago, Ajax Rules said:

 

I thought the meeting between the great houses of Westeros was completely horrible and cringeworthy, especially Sam's proposal and the reactions to that. Worst scene of the entire show. Also Tyrion's meeting with the cabinet of fan favorites felt completly off.

 

I thought the beginning and the end were more or less decent.

The reaction to Sam's proposal for universal suffrage are about what I'd expect from aristocratic families in a feudal society.

2 hours ago, legba11 said:

 

As is Drogon.  Who apparently has never picked up anything was his claw before since he doesn't know how it's done.

 

He was trying to not damage his mother's body.    Not a usual activity for a dragon, I'd say.  Drogon's grief was palpable and sad.

4 hours ago, the tower of albion said:

So I see this has another all time low score. Glad I have chosen not to watch the finale. My resolve will remain strong. Maybe in 20 years time.

On now my friends and let us meet again for the Winds Of winter.

Actually, its not that bad.   It is fairly good.  People are rating it based on how they view the rest of season 8.  Which is a bit unfair.  But it is what it is.

Edit:  as others have stated, the episode could have been a 2-3 hour episode.   But what was done was fine.  Bit like RotK's end.

Can't wait for Winds of Winter

4 hours ago, Count Balerion said:

Also, where she *was* ruthless in the past, it was always against the powerful, slaveowners and the like. I can't recall any exceptions in the show (and only one exception in the books).

Now, is GRRM going this route? If so, I would hope he at least prepares it better.

She was going to burn the cities of the slaveowners (Astapor, Yunkai, New Ghis, Volantis?) to ash in S6.  Which would kill all kinds of innocents.  Tyrion managed to talk her out of that one.

She also considered to attacking KL with her dragons at least twice before.  Tyrion talked her out of one, Jon the 2nd.

2 hours ago, House Cambodia said:

he sack of Kings Landing, even now he can't control his men.

This is an unfair criticism.  Most leaders, even good ones, cannot control their troops during a sack.

21 minutes ago, Empress Sansa said:

With a couple of minor exceptions i loved the episode. King´s Landing was beautifully filmed and Danny going mad was just fantastic.

A solid 9, when it matters.

Sort of the way that I feel re. the episode.  9 or 10.

On 5/12/2019 at 10:46 PM, Frey family reunion said:

o get into, was the whole Volonquar thing.  I guess that Jaime did have his hands somewhat close to Cersei’s neck as the ceiling caved in.  

Quibble.  The show did not get into the Valonqar thing.  Maggie's prophesy in the show stopped short of that line.

On 6/28/2016 at 8:37 PM, olibar said:

A couple of random thoughts on the best episode of this show yet.

1.  I get the sense that they didn't spell out R+L=J to give Martin one last chance to release TWoW and be the one who reveals it officially.  

2.  I think Benjen is an agent of the Night King and has led Bran to the wall to tear it down when he crosses it.  We have absolutely no proof that it was the CotF who saved him and not the Night King.  So the zombies were never going to kill Bran, they just needed to lead him out of the cave and into his uncle.  This would mean the story of Hodor is even more tragic...  

3.  If the wall does come down when Bran crosses it, I imagine we will see Danny race past Kings Landing to help fight off the WW invasion, allowing Cerci time to consolidate power (with Euron and Littlefinger) prior to the final battle between them in the last season.  The size of Danny's current army makes me think that there needs to be a complication, and I can imagine Tyrion counseling her to ignore the Iron Throne and show Westeros what a great leader she is by going  up north to fight the grumpkins.  That should reduce the size of her army enough to have it be a closer fight with Cerci.

I can't see this (the bolded in #3.).  Danny does notknow about the ww and has not plan nor thought about them.  she would need somebody to convince her to do this, like Mel did for/to Stannis.  I would expect her to still attack KL/Cersei and secure what she came for -- the Iron Throne.  After that ... maybe Jon or Davos convinces her (or Tyrion) of this necessity.  or a Red Priest(ess).  I would expect her to head North at some point to attempt re-integration/re-conquest of the independent North.  Maybe then she realizes the WW threat and help deal with them

On 6/28/2016 at 6:39 PM, All-Bran said:

I disagree slightly did anyone else not think that look was a mutual realisation that Sansa had played LF as he normally plays others, she used him for his army (knowing his desire for her would lead him to help) found out his greatest desire and then sat back and admired her work as he lost his army to Jon and fell down a rung or two on the ladder.... I'm pretty sure shes known for ages what LF wants and hes taught her to use people's desires to your own ends she's just finally found the minerals to play the game

mmmm...not really.  i took sansas look as a realization the LF would now try some scheme and become a thread to Jon and House Stark.   i thought her look was more fearful concern and the start of worry.

6 hours ago, Imp Beyond the Wall said:

Two random thoughts.  

Both may have already been brought up by others.

1) Cersei and Jaime really reminded me of Michael and Kay at the end of the Godfather.  After Michael settled the family business and Kay was like who the fcuk am I married to?  It is kind of apt, because Michael become Vito, and Cersei actually surpasses Tywin by becoming Queen in her own right, only with extra crazy sauce.  

2) I did not notice any Sun Spear sails in Dany's armada but, I did not see any other definitive evidence that says they were sailing TO Dorne rather than FROM Dorne.  What if they picked up Varys and Dornish allies on the way to King's Landing rather than Varys rejoining Tyrion in Meereen.  It cuts down on the need for a Westerosi wormhole for speedy travel

Actually I have no problem with how D&D liberally use time passing off screen to save travel time.  I think that all the hand wringing about it is kind of funny.

 

 

1) now that u mention it .... i see what u mean.  good one!  it could have been intentional.  the whole KL stuff just felt like the Godfather.

2) hmmm.....interesting thought ... but... the sand snakes or Ellarria should be on a ship.

would the armada attack KL or Dragonstone first?  would the armada even try an ambphib-invasion?  why not just march overland from Dorne?  i can see taking Dragonstone (symbolic and threatens KL from the sea ..and allows a naval blockade of sorts), but the cavalry of Dothraki would do better riding north no?  and looting and pillaging as the went.  spread the fear and terror and maybe entice Cersei to fight them outside the walls and fortifications of KL, where the Dothraki would be their most effective.